Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[otto]

Yes there is. Malkmus I believe posted actual crime scene photos and other links during that discussion IIRC of the bathmat and other pictures and Otto knows this has been discussed at length. A person simply needs to go back and look at them

 

[otto]

My understanding is that the prints are used for negative comparison ... similar to low number count DNA analaysis. In itself, it is not evidence, but it is useful for comparison to known samples ... of footprints or DNA samples. The print matching Knox's foot was found in haematic/blood substance. It seems that the evidence discovered using luminol was tested for blood (my mistake) but that the conclusions did not indicate that the prints were not made with blood. I understand that not all mixed DNA evidence and footprints indicated blood, and in the case of DNA collections, Amanda's DNA (skin?) was found mixed with Meredith's blood (eg: found in Filomina's bedroom).

 

[Allusonz]

My understanding is that the prints are used for negative comparison ... similar to low number count DNA analaysis. In itself, it is not evidence, but it is useful for comparison to known samples ... of footprints or DNA samples. The print matching Knox's foot was found in haematic/blood substance. It seems that the evidence discovered using luminol was tested for blood (my mistake) but that the conclusions did not indicate that the prints were not made with blood. I understand that not all mixed DNA evidence and footprints indicated blood, and in the case of DNA collections, Amanda's DNA (skin?) was found mixed with Meredith's blood (eg: found in Filomina's bedroom).

it still tested negative for AK's & RS's blood

 

[otto]

it still tested negative for AK's & RS's blood

Haematic relates to blood and yes, the blood did not belong to the two people sitting in jail. The blood belonged to the victim, but the footprint belongs to Knox. The footprint in the victim's blood that is found on the bathmat belongs to her boyfriend.

 

[Allusonz]

Amanda's footprint:

this is the print of a foot most likely imprinted in a deposit of haematic substance, since the Luminol was positive; it was found in the corridor in front of the door to Meredith Kercher’s room, and was pointed towards the entrance. It is considered useful for negative comparisons. The dimensions of the Luminol-positive print (photo 51, main album) show 22.4mm width for the big toe; 78mm width for the metatarsus; 43mm width of the heel, compared to the corresponding measurements from Amanda Knox’s sole-print (cf. photo 44 on page 5669, main album) at: 22mm with regard to the width of the big toe; 76.7mm the width of the metatarsus; 43mm the width of the heel. (page 347)

http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf

NOTE: the MOST LIKELY!!!!

The luminol tests for footprints tested NEGATIVE FOR BLOOD

 

[Allusonz]

Otto there is no maybe here they either were or were not. This is when the defense found out that Stephanoni tested them with tetramethylbenzidine which is very sensitive for blood

 

[otto]

NOTE: the MOST LIKELY!!!!

The luminol tests for footprints tested NEGATIVE FOR BLOOD

The print was in "haematic substance". Is that not blood? I think it is blood. The print in the hallway has been attributed to Knox.

This is a bloody footprint made by Knox in the hallway outside of Meredith's bedroom. How did she get blood on the bottom of her bare foot?

 

[otto]

Otto there is no maybe here they either were or were not. This is when the defense found out that Stephanoni tested them with tetramethylbenzidine which is very sensitive for blood

I don't understand your first sentence.

Yes, the report prepared by the judge includes the forensic analyst discussing the use of that chemical (as well as other) during testing, and Amanda Knox's footprint was found in haematic substance (blood) outside of Meredith's bedroom; in the hallway. Meredith's blood was also found in Filomina's bedroom with some of Amanda's DNA. Rudy's footprints were bloody and round and headed for the exit ... no messing around in the bathroom or bedroom (re: broken window).

 

[Allusonz]

The print was in "haematic substance". Is that not blood? I think it is blood. The print in the hallway has been attributed to Knox.

This is a bloody footprint made by Knox in the hallway outside of Meredith's bedroom. How did she get blood on the bottom of her bare foot?

Again Otto, the footprints that were in blood were RG's. They determined this by the number of rings on the bottom of the shoes. The other footprints which were detected with luminol tested negative for blood

Stephanoni perjured herself on the stand and stated the luminol tests were not tested for blood. It was at this time that it came out that she had indeed tested them with tetramethylbenzidine which is very sensitive for blood and the defense realized that all of the DNA testing had not been disclosed to them

 

[Malkmus]

I didn't know that Barbie Nadeau was a food critic.

Next time you're in Florence:

Amazon.com: Florence Eat! (Where to Eat Guides) (9780762749195): Barbie Nadeau, Joe Viesti: Books

 

[otto]

This is from Prof Vinci (remember him, he's the guy that found Amanda's DNA on the bra):

Professor Vinci's report on the bathmat – we highlight this from the beginning - completely contradicts the conclusions of the Rinaldi-Boemia consultancy.
Not only is the possibility of attributing (in the form of a "judgement of probable identity") the bathmat footprint to Raffaele Sollecito or to Amanda Knox completely denied, but it is somehow hypothesised that the print could have been made by the right foot of Rudy Guede.

It must first be noted that Professor Vinci disagrees with the some of the terminological choices of the consultants of the prosecution. In the opinion of this technical consultant, one should not speak of "print" but of a "track"[orma], as the term "print" should be reserved uniquely for prints containing "ridges", not for foot outlines.

Ref: Motivation Report; pg 351

 

[otto]

Again Otto, the footprints that were in blood were RG's. They determined this by the number of rings on the bottom of the shoes. The other footprints which were detected with luminol tested negative for blood

Stephanoni perjured herself on the stand and stated the luminol tests were not tested for blood. It was at this time that it came out that she had indeed tested them with tetramethylbenzidine which is very sensitive for blood and the defense realized that all of the DNA testing had not been disclosed to them

There is a footprint in the hallway that has been attributed to Knox, and the print is in haematic substance.

I am not familiar with the names of all the people involved in the trial, so I don't know if one person contradicted another, or whether there was an outburst about missing files.

 

[otto]

Next time you're in Florence:

I saw that earlier, but isn't she more of a travel author than a food critic?

 

[Malkmus]

I read part of the 4 page link early this morning and after reading that the interrogation was more than 50 hours, and not the 13 that Knox claimed in the movie, I concluded that this was the same misinformation that has been circulated by the PR team. In fact, the family claimed at first that it was 54 hours, then 41, then 14, and the movie said 13. The truth is that two hours after questioning began on Nov 5, Knox claims she was popped on the back of the head twice, and then out popped Lumumba.

By all means, let's stick to the facts.

I'm sorry, not really understanding who you're claiming is spreading misinformation: the article, the movie, the family, or Knox. I do believe the article is right in saying she was interrogated for more than 50 hours over a few days, the family was right with their 54 hours total, and if they said 14 hours on the one night then that would be the only exaggeration - but I'm just taking your word on that one and is irrelevant to the article which is what we were discussing.

And still incredulous that someone could admit to doing something they didn't do after two hours when I've already cited for you another case where this happened to an innocent person who admitted to much worse.

 

[Malkmus]

Next time you're in Florence:

I saw that earlier, but isn't she more of a travel author than a food critic?

It's a restaurant guide. She reviewed the food and establishments.

 

[otto]

Next time you're in Florence:

I saw that earlier, but isn't she more of a travel author than a food critic?

 

[Malkmus]

One point the movie certainly got right was that Knox called mom before anything happened. Even mom thought there was something wrong with that, and so did police. We know that Knox wasn't all that concerned until police were about to break down the door ... she showered in the cottage even though she found the front door wide open and a bloody foot print on the bath mat. Knox claimed that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom. Why did she call mom before anything happened?

Amanda's first call to her mom was at 12:47 in the afternoon. They spoke for roughly a minute and a half and then Raffaele called his sister to ask her what he should do. A few seconds after their conversation he called 112 to tell them what they found. Apparently the first call to her mom was regarding the open door, blood spots and locked door.

 

[Malkmus]

Isn't it Dempsey that did the article about the inaccuracies you posted earlier? I think it was, but I don't want to go back to check.

I have a question, whoever wrote the article. She said that the police did NOT see any footprints, only a shoe print from Rudy. So what are the pictures we have been looking at in earlier posts? They look like foot prints to me, not shoe prints?

I'll go back and look at the article and post the quote, so maybe someone can explain it to me. BRB,

Salem

ETA: here is the quote:

13. Lifetime police see footprints outlined in luminol immediately at the scene and conclude the break-in was staged. In real life, they found no footprints in the murder room, only Rudy’s bloody shoe prints. Cops do not test or analyze evidence at the scene. They arrested Amanda before the tests even came back.

Here is the link again: http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/02/22/amanda-knox-movie-flunks-truthiness-101/

And yes - it is Dempsey

Sorry if I'm answering already-answered questions. There's been a lot of posts just in the last couple hours and I'm catching up.

Yes, Dempsey wrote one of the articles about the inaccuracies of the movie.

The footprints revealed in Luminol were done later after the discovery, I'd have to check the judge's report to see if the Luminol was applied that day or the next. I'm sure they saw the footprint on the mat because Raffaele told them about the blood in the bathroom when he called 112. Rudy's bloody shoeprints were immediately visible, but wrongly attributed to raf's shoes which aided in arresting him. Hope that answers the question.

 

[otto]

I'm sorry, not really understanding who you're claiming is spreading misinformation: the article, the movie, the family, or Knox. I do believe the article is right in saying she was interrogated for more than 50 hours over a few days, the family was right with their 54 hours total, and if they said 14 hours on the one night then that would be the only exaggeration - but I'm just taking your word on that one and is irrelevant to the article which is what we were discussing.

And still incredulous that someone could admit to doing something they didn't do after two hours when I've already cited for you another case where this happened to an innocent person who admitted to much worse.

(BBM)

10 pm Nov 2 - 5:45 Nov 6, about 92 hours?
54 hours of questioning in total.

92 - 54 = 38 hours.

38 - 8 hours of sleep per night = 38 - 30

That leaves 8 hours (meals, showers, sex, studies, classes, buying underwear, out for pizza, etc.). Was she at the police station all the time except for eating and sleeping?

 

[otto]

Sorry if I'm answering already-answered questions. There's been a lot of posts just in the last couple hours and I'm catching up.

Yes, Dempsey wrote one of the articles about the inaccuracies of the movie.

The footprints revealed in Luminol were done later after the discovery, I'd have to check the judge's report to see if the Luminol was applied that day or the next. I'm sure they saw the footprint on the mat because Raffaele told them about the blood in the bathroom when he called 112. Rudy's bloody shoeprints were immediately visible, but wrongly attributed to raf's shoes which aided in arresting him. Hope that answers the question.

I think the luminol was done much later ... something about having to let the dust settle or the prints to give a better result (per procedure).