Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[Nova]

Thanks Jade for clarifying the facts.

What facts? That AK changed while attending college? Actually, that's rather the point of education: it is supposed to change a person.

That MK's father is an entirely sympathetic figure? AFAIK, everyone agrees with that; I have no idea why anyone would not.

Or is it merely that AK was a while MK was practically a nun. Of course, neither claim is true, but that seems to be the implication of the excerpts Jade has selected for presentation.

Just to be clear, I, too, appreciate Jade sharing her research. I just don't know what that particular collection of quotes is supposed to prove.

We also have Knox confessing at 1:30 and claiming that the only reason she confessed was because she was hungry sometime later, thirsty sometime later, tired several hours later, didn't have an interpreter even though one was present, and popped on the head twice (physical abuse).

AK did NOT confess at 1:30 or any other time, IIRC. Apparently, she made a statement placing herself and PL very near the scene of the crime. But to my knowledge, none of AK's statements implicates herself as anything more than a bystander. Which, of course, is why the chief investigator and prosecutor had to invent their "sex games gone wrong" theory to involve AK somehow in the actual crime.

As for her claims that she was denied food and water, etc., where is it clear what period of time she is talking about? I doubt she is complaining she wasn't fed between 11:30 p.m. and the 1:45 a.m. statement; so maybe she means during the time preceding the 5:45 a.m. second statement or the gift statements 8 or so hours later. I don't know, but that doesn't make her claims lies.

 

[Nova]

Criminal History: Raffaele and Knox both had a history with violating the law. Knox had the disturbance charge, and police had found Raffaele with 2.67 grams
hashish in 2003.

Knives: Rudy had been known to carry a knife, Raffaele had been known to have a knife collection and to carry knives.

DNA: Rudy left evidence of himself at the scene (the cottage). Raffaele and Knox left evidence on the bra (Raffaele's team found Knox DNA on the bra). Knox left mixed DNA samples at the scene.

All three are convicted of the violent murder; 44 injuries to the victim.

Well, what we are discussing is whether the convictions were just, so you can't really use the convictions as proof of that.

While technically correct, I suppose, this is the first time I have ever heard a noise complaint described as "violating the law." If you must make AK out to be a hardened criminal--and it seems you must--you'd be better off making reference to her known drug use.

As you said yourself above, possession of small amounts of cannabis is considered a very minor offense in most Western European countries, so I think it's safe to say that neither AK nor RS really had "criminal records."

Certainly their histories--RS' knife collection notwithstanding--stand in stark contrast to that of Rudy Guede.

It's interesting to me that those who insist AK is guilty based on her alleged cartwheels and other inappropriate behavior gloss over the fact that she and RS (unlike Guede) never fled the jurisdiction or made any plans to do so, cooperated fully with police without hiring lawyers, and even dallied at the police station when they were not required to do so.

None of these actions are normally thought to be indicative of guilt.

As those who support the verdicts would have it, AK's alleged cartwheels and flirting with her boyfriend are supposedly indicative of her happiness and lack of concern for her dead friend. But that argument works another way: the same behaviors (if any of it happened; I don't know) also indicate a lack of concern for AK herself and hardly describe a murderer trying to avoid attention from the authorities.

And AK's supposed lack of expression of feeling for MK (including AK's decision to skip the memorial service) hardly sounds like someone trying to cover up her involvement in a murder. Sociopaths may lack real empathy, but they are often masters of imitating the emotions expected by others. AK was apparently unconcerned with doing so.

For those who like to rely on evidence re post-murder demeanor, AK's actions are at least as indicative of innocence as of guilt.

 

[otto]

What facts? That AK changed while attending college? Actually, that's rather the point of education: it is supposed to change a person.

That MK's father is an entirely sympathetic figure? AFAIK, everyone agrees with that; I have no idea why anyone would not.

Or is it merely that AK was a while MK was practically a nun. Of course, neither claim is true, but that seems to be the implication of the excerpts Jade has selected for presentation.

Just to be clear, I, too, appreciate Jade sharing her research. I just don't know what that particular collection of quotes is supposed to prove.



AK did NOT confess at 1:30 or any other time, IIRC. Apparently, she made a statement placing herself and PL very near the scene of the crime. But to my knowledge, none of AK's statements implicates herself as anything more than a bystander. Which, of course, is why the chief investigator and prosecutor had to invent their "sex games gone wrong" theory to involve AK somehow in the actual crime.

As for her claims that she was denied food and water, etc., where is it clear what period of time she is talking about? I doubt she is complaining she wasn't fed between 11:30 p.m. and the 1:45 a.m. statement; so maybe she means during the time preceding the 5:45 a.m. second statement or the gift statements 8 or so hours later. I don't know, but that doesn't make her claims lies.

This is what Knox declared at 1:45 AM:

"I met Patrick soon after at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana and we went home. I do not remember if Meredith was already there or if she came later. I find it difficult to remember those moments but Patrick had sex with Meredith with whom he was infatuated but I do not remember well if Meredith had been threatened before. I vaguely remember that he killed her."

So she invited Patrick into her home, he murdered Meredith, and then Knox went back to Raffaele's apt. Like it or not, that's not something an innocent person does.

Amanda had pizza with Raffaele until about 10:30, and she confessed at 1:30. She claims that she suffered all that abuse between 11:30 and 1:30 so she confessed. How is it possible that she was so hungry shortly after eating, and that she blames this hunger for confessing?

 

[otto]

"GORDON: Jane, I do not feel sorry for Amanda Knox, I`m sorry to tell you. Wasn`t she the same girl who got popped in the head two times by the police and then said the Congolese man (ph) was responsible for this incident. It was like, pop, mama mia, pop, the mumba did it.

I don`t feel sorry for her, and she`s brought this on her family. Her family`s believing her, but she`s a known liar. This Congolese man ended up doing some time in jail as a result of her saying that he was responsible.

...

GORDON: Yes. Isn`t she a convicted killer? Why are we molly- coddling this convicted killer?

...

GORDON: You`re in Italy. Govern yourself accordingly. If you`re going to shoot off at the mouth against authority in Italy, you better know what the law is. I just don`t understand. Help me. I just don`t.

...

GORDON: I just think we`re on very dangerous ground when we start criticizing other people`s judicial systems or justice systems abroad. We have enough problems with our system.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/16/ijvm.01.html

What does Bremner say in response? She starts talking about one of the prosecutors. We are supposed to believe that the prosecutor is mean and out to get Knox and Sollecito, and now Knox's parents ... and that's the only reason that Knox is in prison.

 

[Nova]

This is what Knox declared at 1:45 AM:

"I met Patrick soon after at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana and we went home. I do not remember if Meredith was already there or if she came later. I find it difficult to remember those moments but Patrick had sex with Meredith with whom he was infatuated but I do not remember well if Meredith had been threatened before. I vaguely remember that he killed her."

So she invited Patrick into her home, he murdered Meredith, and then Knox went back to Raffaele's apt. Like it or not, that's not something an innocent person does.

Amanda had pizza with Raffaele until about 10:30, and she confessed at 1:30. She claims that she suffered all that abuse between 11:30 and 1:30 so she confessed. How is it possible that she was so hungry shortly after eating, and that she blames this hunger for confessing?

otto, there is no confession in the statement you quote. Period. Full stop. There is a vague accusation and therefore an admission to having witnessed a crime, but no confession.

Nor, to my knowledge, is there a confession in any of AK's other statements. At worst, she claims to have been in the cottage at the time of the murder.

On a different but related note: "I find it difficult to remember..."? "I vaguely recall..."?

I know some people insist that Amanda Knox is the font of all that is evil, but there is ZERO excuse for Umbrian LE locking up a suspect (PL) on the basis of such statements. True, AK shouldn't have made the statements, but she wasn't the professional in the room; there's no reason to believe she understood everything that would happen based on her ambiguous accusations.

 

[otto]

otto, there is no confession in the statement you quote. Period. Full stop. There is a vague accusation and therefore an admission to having witnessed a crime, but no confession.

Nor, to my knowledge, is there a confession in any of AK's other statements. At worst, she claims to have been in the cottage at the time of the murder.

On a different but related note: "I find it difficult to remember..."? "I vaguely recall..."?

I know some people insist that Amanda Knox is the font of all that is evil, but there is ZERO excuse for Umbrian LE locking up a suspect (PL) on the basis of such statements. True, AK shouldn't have made the statements, but she wasn't the professional in the room; there's no reason to believe she understood everything that would happen based on her ambiguous accusations.

Knox admitted to being present during the murder, to letting the murderer into the cottage, to knowing that Meredith was being sexually assaulted, to knowing that Meredith was murdered, and to doing nothing about it. We know that Meredith bled to death, yet we have Knox admitting that after the murder, and having personal knowledge about the murder, she did nothing. As she was present at the murder, she would also know about the phones being taken from Meredith, and that her bedroom door was locked, and the keys were thrown away. We also have Knox leaving the scene of a crime where a break in was staged ... something that is done to conceal a crime, and interfere with the investigation.

That may be interpretted as "innocent" or not a "confession" by some, but not many would come to that conclusion.

Of course police are going to arrest an accused violent sexual predator that murderer a foreign student ... do you really think people like that should be left to wander around and commit more crimes? Police had eyewitness testimony of the crime, what more did they need? They needed the truth, but at the time of the confession, they thought they had the truth.

 

[Nova]

"GORDON: Jane, I do not feel sorry for Amanda Knox, I`m sorry to tell you. Wasn`t she the same girl who got popped in the head two times by the police and then said the Congolese man (ph) was responsible for this incident. It was like, pop, mama mia, pop, the mumba did it.

I don`t feel sorry for her, and she`s brought this on her family. Her family`s believing her, but she`s a known liar. This Congolese man ended up doing some time in jail as a result of her saying that he was responsible.

...

GORDON: Yes. Isn`t she a convicted killer? Why are we molly- coddling this convicted killer?

...

GORDON: You`re in Italy. Govern yourself accordingly. If you`re going to shoot off at the mouth against authority in Italy, you better know what the law is. I just don`t understand. Help me. I just don`t.

...

GORDON: I just think we`re on very dangerous ground when we start criticizing other people`s judicial systems or justice systems abroad. We have enough problems with our system.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/16/ijvm.01.html

What does Bremner say in response? She starts talking about one of the prosecutors. We are supposed to believe that the prosecutor is mean and out to get Knox and Sollecito, and now Knox's parents ... and that's the only reason that Knox is in prison.

Prosecutors use discretion all the time. Well, they do except in Perugia. Whether or not AK's parents are technically guilty of slander under Italian law, the compassionate thing would have been to overlook their remarks.

U.S. law also has charges such as perjury and obstruction of justice that could be applied to almost every defendant and relative of every defendant ever charged with a crime. We expect prosecutors to use a little discretion.

I have no idea why you think a JVM transcript is relevant here, but I will add that criticizing Italian law and how it is used is not to pretend we have no problems in the U.S. We have prosecutors who run amok here as well.

 

[otto]

Prosecutors use discretion all the time. Well, they do except in Perugia. Whether or not AK's parents are technically guilty of slander under Italian law, the compassionate thing would have been to overlook their remarks.

U.S. law also has charges such as perjury and obstruction of justice that could be applied to almost every defendant and relative of every defendant ever charged with a crime. We expect prosecutors to use a little discretion.

I have no idea why you think a JVM transcript is relevant here, but I will add that criticizing Italian law and how it is used is not to pretend we have no problems in the U.S. We have prosecutors who run amok here as well.

Is slander overlooked in the US? When someone's professional reputation is damaged, does that person not have a right to defend themselves? The police officers that were slandered by Knox and her parents are exercising their legal right to have their professional reputations restored. At this time, their reputations have been damaged on the international stage ... it is their right to set the facts straight ... whether they live in Italy, or in the US.

 

[Nova]

Knox admitted to being present during the murder, to letting the murderer into the cottage, to knowing that Meredith was being sexually assaulted, to knowing that Meredith was murdered, and to doing nothing about it. We know that Meredith bled to death, yet we have Knox admitting that after the murder, and having personal knowledge about the murder, she did nothing. As she was present at the murder, she would also know about the phones being taken from Meredith, and that her bedroom door was locked, and the keys were thrown away. We also have Knox leaving the scene of a crime where a break in was staged ... something that is done to conceal a crime, and interfere with the investigation.

That may be interpretted as "innocent" or not a "confession" by some, but not many would come to that conclusion.

Of course police are going to arrest an accused violent sexual predator that murderer a foreign student ... do you really think people like that should be left to wander around and commit more crimes? Police had eyewitness testimony of the crime, what more did they need? They needed the truth, but at the time of the confession, they thought they had the truth.

It's funny how you add so many details (such as the stolen phones) that are NOT in the statement and insist they attach to the statement by implication. Of course, the far more reasonable conclusion is the simple one: that AK is parroting what her interrogators tell her to say, that she wasn't actually there and that is why she can't add any of the details you insist are implied by her statement.

To repeat, her statement is clearly not a confession. It doesn't even say that MK was sexually assaulted. You take it and then attach everything else you know about the crime from other evidence and insist that AK has "confessed" to all of it. Simply not true.

No COMPETENT and LAW-ABIDING police force would put a suspect in lock up on the basis of statements containing phrases like "I find it difficult to remember..." and "I vaguely recall..."

Question him? Sure. Lock him up for 2 weeks? Not a chance. No, Mr. Lumumba was locked up because ILE had their theory of the crime and, because LE had not waited for forensic results, PL seemed the best fit. AK was the tool they used to get vague statements on which to base the arrest. Whatever one believes about AK's guilt, we should all be outraged at the behavior of Perugia LE.

 

[SleuthyGal]

1. No confession
2. No evidence placing AK in MK's bedroom
3. No cuts or bruises or signs of fight on AK
4. No eye witness testimony
5. No video/audiotape or transcript of interrogation
6. Corrupt and convicted lead prosecutor

AK is innocent. RS is innocent. RG is guilty & he did the murder.

 

[Nova]

Is slander overlooked in the US? When someone's professional reputation is damaged, does that person not have a right to defend themselves? The police officers that were slandered by Knox and her parents are exercising their legal right to have their professional reputations restored. At this time, their reputations have been damaged on the international stage ... it is their right to set the facts straight ... whether they live in Italy, or in the US.

You can't have it both ways: you can't reasonably claim that AK's charges of police harassment are preposterous AND that the reputations of unnamed police officers have been damaged.

The jury didn't believe AK's claim of police coercion and found her guilty of murder. That's not enough? No, ILE has to add on another year. That's not enough? No, ILE has to go after her family.

And people claim Amanda Knox is the heartless one here!

As for the U.S., a slander claim against public officials is very difficult to prove. Recognizing the overwhelming power of the government relative to a criminal defendant, we allow the latter considerable latitude in charging official misconduct and/or error.

 

[otto]

It's funny how you add so many details (such as the stolen phones) that are NOT in the statement and insist they attach to the statement by implication. Of course, the far more reasonable conclusion is the simple one: that AK is parroting what her interrogators tell her to say, that she wasn't actually there and that is why she can't add any of the details you insist are implied by her statement.

To repeat, her statement is clearly not a confession. It doesn't even say that MK was sexually assaulted. You take it and then attach everything else you know about the crime from other evidence and insist that AK has "confessed" to all of it. Simply not true.

No COMPETENT and LAW-ABIDING police force would put a suspect in lock up on the basis of statements containing phrases like "I find it difficult to remember..." and "I vaguely recall..."

Question him? Sure. Lock him up for 2 weeks? Not a chance. No, Mr. Lumumba was locked up because ILE had their theory of the crime and, because LE had not waited for forensic results, PL seemed the best fit. AK was the tool they used to get vague statements on which to base the arrest. Whatever one believes about AK's guilt, we should all be outraged at the behavior of Perugia LE.

Yes, I understand that some would prefer to look at the confession in isolation and pretend that the police have no information except the confession ... then it's much easier to conclude that police had nothing, and they should have left Knox and Patrick to do as they pleased because Knox's drugged up vague memories mean nothing, and eyewitness reports mean nothing.

The problem with this is that the confession does not exist in isolation, but it is in fact added to the information that police already had ... which includes the stolen phones, the locked bedroom door, the staged break-in, the blood in the bathroom, and the fact that Meredith bled to death. Now we add to this the fact that Knox let the murderer into the cottage, knew about the sexual assault, and knew about the murder. We also know that Knox did nothing to assist Meredith after the murder.

 

[otto]

You can't have it both ways: you can't reasonably claim that AK's charges of police harassment are preposterous AND that the reputations of unnamed police officers have been damaged.

The jury didn't believe AK's claim of police coercion and found her guilty of murder. That's not enough? No, ILE has to add on another year. That's not enough? No, ILE has to go after her family.

And people claim Amanda Knox is the heartless one here!

As for the U.S., a slander claim against public officials is very difficult to prove. Recognizing the overwhelming power of the government relative to a criminal defendant, we allow the latter considerable latitude in charging official misconduct and/or error.

Not following you here ... it is reasonable that Knox's parents made false statements about Italian police in British media, and that this resulted in damage to the professional reputations of the police.

 

[Jade]

What facts? That AK changed while attending college? Actually, that's rather the point of education: it is supposed to change a person.

For the worst?

That MK's father is an entirely sympathetic figure? AFAIK, everyone agrees with that; I have no idea why anyone would not.

Meredith is the subject of the thread and entirely on topic sorry if I bored you with her parents agony


Or is it merely that AK was a while MK was practically a nun. Of course, neither claim is true, but that seems to be the implication of the excerpts Jade has selected for presentation.

Don’t shoot the messenger I didn’t write the articles or make witness statements or comment to the press. It is not like I dug up obscure articles. It is a major newspaper!


Just to be clear, I, too, appreciate Jade sharing her research. I just don't know what that particular collection of quotes is supposed to prove.

Not trying to prove a thing. It is a discussion board just discussing and bringing up points I think are interesting or revealing or my opinion.

 

[Mama Stinker]

I think the biggest problem is related to information. The trial is in a foreign language, so it's very difficult for most people to get the news. It is further complicated by the fact that the Knox family has hired, and continues to employ, a public relations team whose sole responsibility is to present (or re-interpret) the information such that it is favorable to Knox. That leaves us with inaccessible information, and convoluted or biased information. The Italians, those that are able to review publicized information and avoid the PR teams interference, seem to have had no problem believing that Knox, Sollecito and Guede are guilty (many loud cheers upon reading of the verdict).

It certainly doesn't help that talking heads do not do their homework, and broadcast whatever Knox's parents want to say. I have to wonder why Nancy Grace hasn't come to the rescue of Knox. NG had no problem helping a US victim in Aruba, or a Peruvian victim in Lima ... why not the Seattle "victim" in Italy?

On appeal, the testing of two DNA samples will be reviewed and that could go either way. If the testing was not as it should be, then additional evidence will be examined. If the testing was done correctly, then I think it's pretty much over for Knox and friends.

The knife? And bra?

 

[Mama Stinker]

:welcome:


When i first heard about this case i wondered wow, how horrendous, what drives individuals to do these things. I feel that when a prosecutor charges someone there is a solid foundation. What surprised me was the "Cased Closed" statement made by GM to the world. It surprised me as there had been insufficient time for much of the forensics to come back from testing. Still though, I believed ILE must have something and still thought her guilty. However, when any prosecutor states "Cased Closed" to a worldwide audience right after an arrest I will dig very deep. Then I found out that forensics collected for the most part was collected MUCH LATER. Everyone I am sure has seen the photo of the washroom that appears to be blood all over the entire area when in fact it was a forensic tool used to detect blood etc. Many accepted that picture as it was pesented and this is only one example. If not trained can you blame them? It sure looked bad.

I rarely question a prosecutor or LE as I have a great respect for the tasks they are assigned. The emotions they deal with on a daily basis.

As I delved more into the case I became perplexed. I was looking for the evidence that in its totallity showed their guilt. I was trying to find the truth beyond the innuendo, the media hype, conflicting stories, and outright improbabilities. Thus I became a fence sitter. I believed her to be guilty, but did not see that it was beyond a reasonable doubt. By that time it was very apparent that in the Court of Public Opinion they were guilty, and stated they would be found guilty at that time prior to the trial.

It is very difficult for anyone to convince me of something that in my mind I had come to accept to "be the truth". Thus i waited for the trial. I thought for sure they would present that "smoking gun". That coined phrase that was used so often throughout this case. When i make a decision I can be "MY OWN WORSE ENEMY". In my mind i must doubly make sure that I am changing my opinion based on facts. Not bias. I did not change my mind overnight. This was a gradual process over time over which I am oft ribbed by friends, collegues, and family. They know for me to concede i MIGHT be wrong is huge.

I then went to NOT GUILY compared to innocent. I cant define any particular piece/lack of evidence or time that I had subconsciously changed my opinion. I weighed carefully the opinions of many, and tried to see what each individual was trying to say and the position they were coming from.

I believe that for many it is hard to get past all the media inconsistencies. I have sat here and watched her labeled with "antisocial personality disorder " not based on any direct medical interaction (where they have been able to physically/mentally examine her). In fact, to be brutally honest it was posts right here against her that served only to solidify my "Not Guilty" belief. They simply could not come up with anything substantial whether it was the DNA, the theories, and the list can go on. I was amazed at how the Motivational Document selectively picked out testimony to support conclusions and in fact make up conclusions that were not even presented

Its a journey that only you can make and only you can ultimately make a dermination.

Thank you for this. This is where I am at and have been. There has been no smoking gun for me although implicating Patrick has been hard for me to forgive and forget, but still, it hasn't proved guilt to me.

What do others feel is the "best evidence" she is guilty?

 

[Malkmus]

Just so it is clear who we are all talking about.

The convicted murderer behind bars serving 26 years Amanda Knox:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2830451.ece



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2821154.ece



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2828190.ece




The victim Meredith Kercher:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2830451.ece



http://abcnews.go.com/WN/International/anniversary-amanda-knoxs-alleged-victims-death-meredith-kercher/story?id=8975821

Most of these articles used to describe Amanda are hyperbolic.

Meredith "feared strange men" Amanda was bringing home? Here is the quote from Sophie Purton:

Student Sophie Purton, 20, interviewed by Italian police but never considered a suspect, said: "Meredith told me that Amanda brought men back to their house, I don't know how many. Meredith told me in particular about one man who lives in an internet café.

"Meredith thought this man was very strange."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492410/Meredith-Foxy-Knoxy-brought-strange-men-house.html

The marijuana plants were being grown by Meredith's boyfriend and all the girls in the cottage smoked pot.

“residential disturbance”? She got a noise ticket. Who cares?

Sure she wrote a story about drugs and rape, among others. Her high school teacher explains:

“She sends me short stories from prison,” says Johnson, who describes herself as a tough critic. “I’ll send my feedback and Amanda will tell me, ‘Oh, I hoped you would do that. I counted on you to slash and mark.’ ”

The stories involve “people trying to understand each other, trying to communicate,” Johnson says. “I think she’s really interested in the boundaries between people and trying to transcend those boundaries.”

And here are other opinions of Amanda from people who knew her:

“I went back and read some of what had been reported,” Johnson says. In articles with headlines like “Student Murdered After Refusing to Take Part in Sex” and “The Twisted World of Foxy Knoxy,” the teacher learned that her star pupil had been arrested for the homicide of her roommate in the medieval Italian village of Perugia. Investigators speculated that the victim perished during a Knox-led orgy or satanic ritual.
“Amanda was a person who went out of the way to be kind to other people,” Johnson thought. “How in the world could this be the same person?”

She applied and was not only accepted by Prep—which admits a limited number of non-Catholics—but won a scholarship to the school.
By the time she graduated from Prep in 2005—with a 3.9 grade point average—Knox was also known campuswide for being particularly kind and warmhearted. One of her close friends in the drama department was openly gay. In solidarity, Amanda helped him organize Seattle Prep’s first gay-straight alliance. Years later, her penchant for kindness and justice would come back around.

Heavey asked his then 20-year-old daughter Shana what she thought of Amanda. The girls were in the same graduating class at Seattle Prep and, because they lived four blocks apart, often carpooled from West Seattle to school. “Amanda Knox is the most genuinely kind person I know,” Shana answered. “She doesn’t have a mean bone in her body.”

If we're going to paint a picture of what kind of person Amanda is I think we need the whole picture. Not just how she was perceived in the weeks surrounding the murder. I think between all the information posted by Jade and myself we can conclude that both Amanda and Meredith were normal young women. Of course, my opinion.

ETA: Link http://www.seattlemet.com/issues/archives/articles/seattle-prep-amanda-knox-1210/1/

 

[Nova]

Yes, I understand that some would prefer to look at the confession in isolation and pretend that the police have no information except the confession ... then it's much easier to conclude that police had nothing, and they should have left Knox and Patrick to do as they pleased because Knox's drugged up vague memories mean nothing, and eyewitness reports mean nothing.

The problem with this is that the confession does not exist in isolation, but it is in fact added to the information that police already had ... which includes the stolen phones, the locked bedroom door, the staged break-in, the blood in the bathroom, and the fact that Meredith bled to death. Now we add to this the fact that Knox let the murderer into the cottage, knew about the sexual assault, and knew about the murder. We also know that Knox did nothing to assist Meredith after the murder.

Once again, AK does not claim sexual assault in the first statement. She claims PL had sexual relations with MK. Not the same thing.

I accept your point that the police had other evidence by the time AK made a statement putting herself and PL at the scene of the crime. I do NOT accept that the preponderance of that evidence incriminated AK, must less PL.

The break in--if indeed it was staged and lacking competent and exhaustive forensic testimony, I see no reason to assume that it was--might have benefited any number of people. At the time of AK's coerced statement; ILE had no way of knowing whom.

The stolen phones, if anything, point away from AK (whom was she going to call without leaving cell phone records that would point back to her?) and toward a burglar who might hope to profit from stealing/using the phones.

The blood in the bathroom was minimal, as you know. Are you even sure it had been tested by the time AK made her statement implicating PL?

I don't know why MK's exsanguination, horrific as it was, points to any specific party.

***

The fact remains that ILE had not yet tested the forensic samples collected, samples which could and in fact did point to someone not even on their radar.

This is exactly what Johnnie Cochran famously called, "A rush to judgment." (Only this time, the phrase actually fits.)

***

Bottom line: however, when referring to any of Amanda's statements of that fateful night, it is only fair to refer to what she is recorded as having said.

It is disingenuous to attach all of your own conclusions so as to turn what is merely a witness statement into a confession to murder. (Of course, you are entitled to extrapolate from what she actually said to what you think it implies, but it isn't kosher to take your deductions and put them in AK's mouth, so to speak.)

 

[Nova]

Not following you here ... it is reasonable that Knox's parents made false statements about Italian police in British media, and that this resulted in damage to the professional reputations of the police.

You and others have insisted here that AK's claims of police abuse are obvious lies.

If they are obvious lies, then no harm has been done to anyone's reputation.

Or conversely, if the claims of AK actually damaged reputations, then it must not be "obvious" that they are untrue.

 

[otto]

The knife? And bra?

"Professor Vinci's report says that there is evidence of DNA from all three suspects on the bra. Sollecito's legal team do not dispute its existence but insist it is there due to contamination."

Ref: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...laim-ex-boyfriends-lawyers.html#ixzz1EGqRXyAD