Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[iluvmua]

Now I feel bad that I though she was guilty.

I bet Casey is upset that Amanda is stealing her thunder.......

 

[Murdock]

I never understood the logic behind turned off cell phones equaling evidence of guilt. If the murder was preplanned then just leaving the phones behind would help with an alibi. If it wasn't planned, then why would two young people turn off their phones before going out?

I would think that turning off the cell phones would be more in-line with a planned night in.

Just MOO

 

[darnudes]

Yes. They both had other plans that night but the plans fell through so they had an unexpected first night alone together. They did not want to be disturbed as they had fun in Sollecito's apartment by anyone who might call or had a change of heart about the earlier changed plans. So, they turned off their phones. *

As to the computer, as you can read in the link I just posted, the authorities "accidentally" fried Sollecito's computer when copying it. They subsequently claimed there was no activity. In reality, it was destroyed and there was no way to determine if there had been computer activity as the pair claimed.

* Remember, this so-called murderous pair met on October 25 at a concert. Meredith was murdered on November 1st, a mere eight days later. This was their first night to be really alone together.

I've just had a quick read and firstly whilst I love the Guardian I do not have a lot of respect for this particular writer. I've not yet had the time to check up on his claims re the computer usage but I do know that this particular author has a bone to pick with the prosecutor and is therefore not to be trusted as a truly unbiased reporter. I take this as more of an opinion piece rather than a factually correct report.

His claim about the computer activity is not how I remember the facts but I will have to re check some documents.

 

[darnudes]

Amanda testified in court that she turned off her phone to save the battery and so she could not be called back to work. Raffaele never testified on this subject, but may have turned off his phone to avoid getting another call from his father.

The prosecution claimed that the last activity on Raff's computer was at 9:10 pm. A more complete analysis showed the video file Narato being started at 9:26 pm and the screensaver log indicated only short periods of inactivity until 6:22 am.

Amanda only changed her story during the interrogation on that night of Nov. 5 and 6. Before and after that date, she has consistently said she spent the night at Raff's place. Raff never really changed his story. He did say that he couldn't vouch for where Amanda was while he slept, but that is simply common sense.

Well, that's not true, Raffaele changed his story 3 times as to his whereabouts on that night. To this day Raffaele denies she was at his house on the night of the murder for the whole night, in fact he states she left at around 9pm and didn't return until 1am.

 

[Boytwnmom]

who has abused his office previously by fabricating occult/sexual conspiracies agaisnt innocent people? Gee, I would think that would cause most people to have a "bone to pick" with him. How people can go on about the, to me, understandable statements Amanda Knox made but be completely nonplussed by prosecutorial misconduct boggles my mind. The states absue of power is so much more serious and detremental to society and justice than any one person's "lies'" could be. In most places, a prosecutor convicted of abuse of office would simply not be allowed to prosecute anyone else.

I'm no expert but I have repeatedly heard that LE fried all the computers so not sure how much evidence could be obtained but I know it was addressed in the appeal although I don't know the outcome. I also have read here and other palces that screensaver files show only short periods of inactivity.

Computer activity and data retrieval

Raffaele’s appeal shows a 20 minute video was activated at 9:26 p.m. on his computer. It doesn’t prove they stayed to watch the video, but it does place them in his apartment at 9:26 p.m. to activate the video, which makes the eye witness account of the park bench witness unreliable because he claimed they both were at Piazza Grimana at that time.

The hard drives of Amanda and Raffaele’s computers were damaged during police testing. The appeals are requesting that they be sent to be evaluated by their respected manufacturers to try and retrieve the lost data. Raffaele’s could show computer activity during the time of the murder. Amanda's computer would show photographs/emails of her and Meredith which would reveal a friendly relationship contrary to that depicted by the press and prosecution.

I've just had a quick read and firstly whilst I love the Guardian I do not have a lot of respect for the this particular writer. I've not yet had the time to check up on his claims re the computer usage but I do know that this particular author has a bone to pick with the prosecutor and is therefore not to be trusted as a truly unbiased reporter. I take this as more of an opinion piece rather than a factually correct report.

His claim abou the computer activity is not how I remember the facts but I will have to re check some documents.

 

[stilettos]

who has abused his office previously by fabricating occult/sexual conspiracies agaisnt innocent people? Gee, I would think that would cause most people to have a "bone to pick" with him. How people can go on about the, to me, understandable statements Amanda Knox made but be completely nonplussed by prosecutorial misconduct boggles my mind. The states absue of power is so much more serious and detremental to society and justice than any one person's "lies'" could be. In most places, a prosecutor convicted of abuse of office would simply not be allowed to prosecute anyone else.

I'm no expert but I have repeatedly heard that LE fried all the computers so not sure how much evidence could be obtained but I know it was addressed in the appeal although I don't know the outcome. I also have read here and other palces that screensaver files show only short periods of inactivity.

The Prosecutor should never have been allowed anywhere near this case.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I've just had a quick read and firstly whilst I love the Guardian I do not have a lot of respect for this particular writer. I've not yet had the time to check up on his claims re the computer usage but I do know that this particular author has a bone to pick with the prosecutor and is therefore not to be trusted as a truly unbiased reporter. I take this as more of an opinion piece rather than a factually correct report.

His claim about the computer activity is not how I remember the facts but I will have to re check some documents.

I would think anyone would have a bone to pick with this prosecutor. He has been convicted of crimes to do with his investigations. Even people who believe AK is guilty have to wonder about him and how to trust anything he said.

IMO

 

[Malkmus]

<modsnip>
Darnudes is correct that he stated on the night of November 5th that Amanda left. There is strong evidence that his details of that night were actually referring to the night previous based on what he said they did that night. One might ask why he would break his own alibi like that in a move that would only benefit LE and simultaneously contradict the theory that he was involved, and why the story of Amanda leaving reflects what they did the night prior on Halloween. What is incorrect is that Raffaele never backed her after that. He did after that interrogation state that she was with him all night. He wrote this in his prison diary, and it was his defense in both trials.

He changed his story twice. Once on the night of November 5th, then back to what he originally claimed all along, that they were together.

ETA: Thinking this through better, I'd go so far as to say that because his story only changed that one night, that he really only changed his story once.

 

[Turnadot]

I chalk up Raff's changing story to stress, major stress. And I do mean MAJOR.

Even people in the USA, a country where citizens pride themselves (rightfully so) on a fair system, is subject to people changing their stories because of stress, or breaking down because the detectives keep pounding them. And the interrogations there are softball in comparison with Italy.

Were Amanda and Raff's confessions on video? Even if they are, I would still wonder how much of it was edited by a corrupt prosecution; a corrupt system that should be overhauled, along with Berlusconi.

My opinions...

 

[Malkmus]

Is that how the Italian SC works, Malkmus? Like our appellate courts, that deal almost exclusively with trial error rather than actual evidence?

I'm certainly no expert, but it sure seems that way.

 

[Malkmus]

I chalk up Raff's changing story to stress, major stress. And I do mean MAJOR.

Even people in the USA, a country where citizens pride themselves (rightfully so) on a fair system, is subject to people changing their stories because of stress, or breaking down because the detectives keep pounding them. And the interrogations there are softball in comparison with Italy.

Were Amanda and Raff's confessions on video? Even if they are, I would still wonder how much of it was edited by a corrupt prosecution; a corrupt system that should be overhauled, along with Berlusconi.

My opinions...

No, the prosecutor originally stated during the first trial that there was too much "commotion" to tape the interrogation. During the appeals he changed that story to "Lack of funding" for video equipment. :waitasec:

Speaking of red flags earlier, this is a huge one.

ETA: Oddly, the prosecutor has claimed to recorded all witness statements, and we know that there are literally thousands of bugged phone calls and conversations in the waiting room of the police department.

 

[Turnadot]

No, the prosecutor originally stated during the first trial that there was too much commotion to tape the interrogation. During the appeals he changed that story to "Lack of funding" for video supplies. :waitasec:

Speaking of red flags earlier, this is a huge one.

To say the least.

I seemed to remember there wasn't video, but couldn't swear to it. Both those kids were railroaded, while the actual murderer, IMO, is only doing 16 years, IIRC.

 

[Malkmus]

To say the least.

I seemed to remember there wasn't video, but couldn't swear to it. Both those kids were railroaded, while the actual murderer, IMO, is only doing 16 years, IIRC.

Someone earlier asked why it's okay for Amanda and Rafaelle to lie, but not someone like Casey Anthony. Without getting into all the specifics and contexts of whether or not they were actually lies, I would like to pose the question of why so many people overlook or think it's okay for LE to have lied in this case. Their are numerous, factual lies. Some presented in court to the first jury.

 

[Footwarrior]

I never understood the logic behind turned off cell phones equaling evidence of guilt. If the murder was preplanned then just leaving the phones behind would help with an alibi. If it wasn't planned, then why would two young people turn off their phones before going out?

I would think that turning off the cell phones would be more in-line with a planned night in.

The investigation of this case suffered from what scientists call confirmation bias. People who have a theory tend to interpret all evidence in a way that confirms their theory. A cell phone being turned off becomes part of a clever plot instead of a mere coincidence. Lack of trace evidence pointing to the prime suspect becomes evidence of a clean up. Showing the police the reasons you called them is interpreted as sinister behavior.

Confirmation bias also leads to looking only for evidence that confirms your theory. Footprints are compared only with the suspects, not to everyone who lived in the dwelling. A broken window that doesn't fit the theory is quickly dismissed as a staged burglary. Close up photos of the outside of that window that might show evidence someone climbed the wall are not taken. Security camera images that could only disprove the theory are not collected.

 

[darnudes]

Darnudes is correct that he stated on the night of November 5th that Amanda left. There is strong evidence that his details of that night were actually referring to the night previous based on what he said they did that night. One might ask why he would break his own alibi like that in a move that would only benefit LE and simultaneously contradict the theory that he was involved, and why the story of Amanda leaving reflects what they did the night prior on Halloween. What is incorrect is that Raffaele never backed her after that. He did after that interrogation state that she was with him all night. He wrote this in his prison diary, and it was his defense in both trials.

He changed his story twice. Once on the night of November 5th, then back to what he originally claimed all along, that they were together.

ETA: Thinking this through better, I'd go so far as to say that because his story only changed that one night, that he really only changed his story once.

That's just not true, but don't take my word for it as RS speaks for himself...
(1)
Article posted online 4 Nov 2007
Raffaele had spent the night at his own house on the other side of the city with his girlfriend, Meredith's American flatmate Amanda Knox, 22.

He said: "It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2007/11/04/italy-murder-details-emerge-98487-20058122/

(2)
5 Nov 2007
“Amanda and I went into town at around 6pm, but I don’t remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 or 9pm.

At 9pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner.”

RS's states that Amanda returned to his house at around 1am and the couple went to bed, although he couldn’t remember if they had sex.

 

[darnudes]

Someone earlier asked why it's okay for Amanda and Rafaelle to lie, but not someone like Casey Anthony. Without getting into all the specifics and contexts of whether or not they were actually lies, I would like to pose the question of why so many people overlook or think it's okay for LE to have lied in this case. Their are numerous, factual lies. Some presented in court to the first jury.

You can pose the question but no one stated it was okay for the police to allegedly lie. I'll wait till I see proof of that before making a statement on it.

 

[Turnadot]

Someone earlier asked why it's okay for Amanda and Rafaelle to lie, but not someone like Casey Anthony. Without getting into all the specifics and contexts of whether or not they were actually lies, I would like to pose the question of why so many people overlook or think it's okay for LE to have lied in this case. Their are numerous, factual lies. Some presented in court to the first jury.

IMO...

LE gave Casey a plethora of "outs" she could have told the truth, under no pressure. She lied calmly and coolly, all of the time, about everything. I'm 100% certain the cops in Italy went at Amanda and Rafaelle with both barrels, because they were guilty until proven innocent. The truth didn't matter. Neither of those kids ever had a chance.

 

[Malkmus]

That's just not true, but don't take my word for it as RS speaks for himself...
(1)
Article posted online 4 Nov 2007
Raffaele had spent the night at his own house on the other side of the city with his girlfriend, Meredith's American flatmate Amanda Knox, 22.

He said: "It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2007/11/04/italy-murder-details-emerge-98487-20058122/

(2)
5 Nov 2007
“Amanda and I went into town at around 6pm, but I don’t remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8.30 or 9pm.

At 9pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner.”

RS's states that Amanda returned to his house at around 1am and the couple went to bed, although he couldn’t remember if they had sex.

Ah, the Kate Mansey story... I'll let someone else get into that. I'm too short on time, and there are others who know more about it than I.

 

[kalekona]

I chalk up Raff's changing story to stress, major stress. And I do mean MAJOR.

Even people in the USA, a country where citizens pride themselves (rightfully so) on a fair system, is subject to people changing their stories because of stress, or breaking down because the detectives keep pounding them. And the interrogations there are softball in comparison with Italy.

Were Amanda and Raff's confessions on video? Even if they are, I would still wonder how much of it was edited by a corrupt prosecution; a corrupt system that should be overhauled, along with Berlusconi.

My opinions...

I think a lot of it was Police telling him things- say Amanda was doing,saying such and such I can totally see someone trying to explain things so the Police will see he is innocent- but instead it made things much worse...

 

[Malkmus]

You can pose the question but no one stated it was okay for the police to allegedly lie. I'll wait till I see proof of that before making a statement on it.

The contention on previous threads has been that LE never lied, when there is proof they did. Wasn't meaning you specifically.