Recovered/Located MEXICO - 4 Americans missing, feared kidnapped in Matamoros, Mexico, 3 Mar 2023

[SuziQ]

This would be a good time for the U.S. State Department, and media, to warn/educate Americans how dangerous it is in Mexico. I had watched a documentary, not all that long ago, how Mexican drug cartels kidnap people and force them to work for them (not to mention the kidnappings for ransom). Hoping we see more things like that come out to further warn/educate people. There are several drug cartels in Mexico, and it is only getting worse. It used to be that travel to the resorts in the Yucatan peninsula were considered fairly safe, but that is no longer.

They have been. Recently warning snowbirds and spring breakers. Everyone should check the State Dept. Advisories before traveling outside the US.

Mexico Travel Advisory | Travel.State.gov

Prepare for your trip to Mexico by reviewing the State Department Travel Advisory, entry and exit requirements, local laws, and U.S. embassy tips.

travel.state.gov

 

[Ceska]

They have been. Recently warning snowbirds and spring breakers. Everyone should check the State Dept. Advisories before traveling outside the US.

Mexico Travel Advisory | Travel.State.gov

Prepare for your trip to Mexico by reviewing the State Department Travel Advisory, entry and exit requirements, local laws, and U.S. embassy tips.

travel.state.gov

I was hoping we would see more documentaries on TV regarding the increasing violence and increase in cartel activity. It has been quite awhile since they have done one. Dateline, 48 Hours, 20/20, Frontline.... that sort of thing. I think people tend to watch those more than they read online about advisories, or the national news.

 

[Ceska]

Already was on the “Do Not Travel” list, updated in February.

Which parts of Mexico are on the ‘do not travel’ list?

Ahead of the busy winter break and spring break travel season, the U.S. Department of State has issued a “do not travel” warning for parts of Mexico.

thehill.com

Yes, but what I meant was.... there needs to be more on the TV/local news/national news/documentaries about this.
Not too many people will actually go online to look this up.

 

[MrsWatson]

Regardless of the Travel Advisory Level, it is still legal to travel there. They are victims of a brutal, terrible crime.

 

[MassGuy]

I think, in Mexico, people feel better if they know it was a specific drug cartel and that it was drug-related (and not some other, new form of crime).

I hope this doesn't sound awful, but the way I'm reading this case, the "mistaken identity" was merely that some local "cartel members" (possibly of the wannabe type), saw people of a particular ethnicity that they thought might be "Haitian." I would guess that rumors of Haitian drug dealers competing in Mexico are rife.

And, we have two different stories emerging. One is that there was some kind of shoot-out between two drug gangs and the tourists were just caught in the middle (and some of them kidnapped!) This seems to be the later emerging story but I can't really tell.

The other is that the people in the van were mistaken for Haitian drug dealers (and that the Gulf Cartel is involved).

Knowing Mexico as I do, I'd say that reporting and police reports leave a lot to be desired. Many articles lack a byline and end with "creen" or start with "creen que" (it is believed that - followed by the subjective tense, meaning, "it is believed that the Gulf Cartel would be involved." Another way of saying, "Maybe it happened this way." I am not saying that this is the case about all reports in this case, I don't know (I haven't looked up the Spanish versions) but I am saying that if there are conflicting accounts, that's quite normal throughout North America, and Mexico is no exception.

IMO.

A lot of these reporters are (rightfully) scared to write stories on cartel violence, as they are frequently targeted for retribution. The best source of news actually comes from narco blogs, utilizing anonymous bloggers. <modsnip: not an approved source>

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633194670669832194

Mexico officials say the two Americans killed will be transferred to the U.S. later today. Autopsies are being carried out

 

[Ceska]

I feel so badly for the two who didn't make it out, I believe that one of the victims who had earlier stated, "We shouldn't go", is one of the men who was killed. Matamoros has always been known to be a violent area to be avoided over the past 20 to 30 years.

 

[MassGuy]

Young guy, but that’s standard in cartel land. Two of four Americans kidnapped in Mexico are dead

 

[MrsWatson]

Survivors of deadly Mexico abduction return to America

CIUDAD VICTORIA, Mexico (AP) — A road trip to Mexico for cosmetic surgery ended with two Americans dead — and two others found alive in a rural area near the Gulf coast — after a violent shootout and abduction that was captured on video, officials said Tuesday.

apnews.com

 

[Ceska]

2 of 4 Americans abducted in Mexico found dead, official says

A road trip to Mexico for cosmetic surgery ended with two Americans dead — and two others found alive in a rural area near the Gulf coast — after a violent shootout and abduction that was captured …

ktla.com

"Villarreal said the captive Americans had been moved around by their captors, and at one point were taken to a medical clinic “to create confusion and avoid efforts to rescue them.”

 

[citizen_sleuth]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Mexico, particularly among Americans who typically learn about Mexico through the lens of migration and border security (i.e., most English-language news coverage of Mexico focuses on immigration and cross-border cartel violence).

While Mexico does have a higher overall homicide rate than the US -- 28 per 100,000 people and 7 per 100,000 people, respectively -- American tourists in Mexico are actually significantly less likely to be the victim of a homicide in Mexico than they are in the United States. The murder rate of U.S. citizens in Mexico was around 0.26 per 100,000 visitors in 2021, compared to 7 per 100,000 in the US. Cartels are typically reluctant to target Americans due to the fact that the US will inevitably pressure Mexican authorities to arrest the perpetrators, and the Mexican authorities are more likely to take action when prompted by external (international) pressure than internal (domestic) pressure. I have not been able to find exact statistics, but from my experience following crime in Mexico (in Spanish-language media), the homicide clearance rate in cases where the victim is a foreigner (especially US/Canadian) is much higher than for Mexican victims or victims of other Latin American nationalities.

Additionally, 40 to 50 percent of all homicides in Mexico are related to organized crime. Most of the victims in these cases are directly linked to the drug trade -- suppliers, buyers, creditors, rival traffickers, police, military, government officials, and journalists covering the drug war -- rather than random civilians caught in the crossfire (although there has been a recent increase in murders of civilians by cartels, they are still in the minority).

 

[PriorTheCreator]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Mexico, particularly among Americans who typically learn about Mexico through the lens of migration and border security (i.e., most English-language news coverage of Mexico focuses on immigration and cross-border cartel violence).

While Mexico does have a higher overall homicide rate than the US -- 28 per 100,000 people and 7 per 100,000 people, respectively -- American tourists in Mexico are actually significantly less likely to be the victim of a homicide in Mexico than they are in the United States. The murder rate of U.S. citizens in Mexico was around 0.26 per 100,000 visitors in 2021, compared to 7 per 100,000 in the US. Cartels are typically reluctant to target Americans due to the fact that the US will inevitably pressure Mexican authorities to arrest the perpetrators, and the Mexican authorities are more likely to take action when prompted by external (international) pressure than internal (domestic) pressure. I have not been able to find exact statistics, but from my experience following crime in Mexico (in Spanish-language media), the homicide clearance rate in cases where the victim is a foreigner (especially US/Canadian) is much higher than for Mexican victims or victims of other Latin American nationalities.

Additionally, 40 to 50 percent of all homicides in Mexico are related to organized crime. Most of the victims in these cases are directly linked to the drug trade -- suppliers, buyers, creditors, rival traffickers, police, military, government officials, and journalists covering the drug war -- rather than random civilians caught in the crossfire (although there has been a recent increase in murders of civilians by cartels, they are still in the minority).

thank you for this.
Facts matter.
Not stereotypes

 

[cvaldez1975]

I watched the video, it appears that maybe two of the people are not alive, they were shown being dragged and carried (by 2 men) and tossed into the back of a pickup truck. It is being stated (online in some news stories on Facebook) that they were perhaps targeted by mistake (by cartel members) and were not the intended targets.

I see that CNN is now reporting the same.... https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/06/americas/fbi-mexico-kidnapping-us-citizens/index.html

agree they do not look alive and there is a blood trail when they were dragged. horrifying and scary.

 

[Shamrock1]

Mexico kidnapping: Why a million Americans a year risk Mexico medical tourism

Some take precautions to avoid being targeted by criminals, like changing their car's licence plate.

www.bbc.com

 

[cvaldez1975]

Cartel's don't play by the rules as far as I know. It's typically shot first and look later. There is also the fact they were thought to be Haitian Drug smugglers, but they could have rented a car in America or be the middle men that live in the US or fake licenses'. Needless to say the Cartel's just don't care sadly.

yes. and there is a pretty formidable Haitian community in border towns so i understood what they meant when they alluded to that. there is backstory.. apparently some years back after their large earthquake, some south american countries brought them there and as time went by, the living conditions werent good so they are trekking here just like south and central american and mexican migrats do.

 

[DrQ]

IMHO This is a disturbing and sad outcome. Unfortunately, Any place any of us go to now (in the US or other countries) can become dangerous. Some of the info is confusing probably because it is still dribbling out. Although these individuals appeared aware and unless I am mistaken, had been to Mexico (don't know if this area) before for a surgical procedure. It seemed to me that the FBI offered a $50K award quickly which could mean they knew something not good went down. A lot of people go to other countries for medical procedures for many reasons and that is there choice. These individuals were not there to party for spring break and seemed sensible in their approach. Although, Mom did not recommend the trip.

Like others, I too have traveled to many places (including Mexico) for many years. I have found myself in situations that were frightening. After being attacked walking to the Metro in DC, to this day I do not like any one walking behind me.

I am sorry for the families and the individuals who have been harmed for no reason.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I do think having an Americian vehicle made them a target. Moo.:.

possible, but border cities are full of american vehicles (go to TJ fairly often)

 

[PrairieWind]

Assuming this was a cartel operation, since the kidnappers were caught on video and screwed up, I wonder if the cartel itself wont "take care" of these guys.

 

[Ceska]

Assuming this was a cartel operation, since they kidnappers were caught on video and screwed up, I wonder if the cartel itself wont "take care" of these guys.

I wondered about that, too. Apparently law enforcement caught one of the kidnappers/killers, my first thought was well, I wonder what will happen to the others involved because the cartel is not going to be too happy they messed up.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I wondered about that, too. Apparently law enforcement caught one of the kidnappers/killers, my first thought was well, I wonder what will happen to the others involved because the cartel is not going to be too happy they messed up.

they drew a lot of unwanted attn thats for sure.