Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[AutomaticAuttie]

But when and how did she get her jet ski back onto their trailer?

Why does it matter how and when she got her jet ski back on it's trailer?

 

[BaileyandBella]

Why does it matter how and when she got her jet ski back on it's trailer?

I am curious if anyone was there at the dock......what was her demeanor like and was she alone.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have followed this case in MSM and on TV. I always had a feeling that Tiffany was telling the truth and was angry when she was doubted. She is a victim, IMO, and David paid with his life. I am so sorry for both of them.

Tiffany and David were adventurous and loved life it seemed. It is so sad that David was killed the way he was. I am so thankful there are now suspects and Tiffany isn't one of them! It seems that some talking heads wanted her to be, though. I just cannot imagine how it would feel to be talked about and accused when I had absolutely nothing to do with my husbands death.

I would give anything for Tiffany and Davids family to be able to have Davids' body and be able to give him a dignified funeral. GB them all. My heabreaks for Tiffany and David.

JMO

 

[panthera]

I have followed this case in MSM and on TV. I always had a feeling that Tiffany was telling the truth and was angry when she was doubted. She is a victim, IMO, and David paid with his life. I am so sorry for both of them.

Tiffany and David were adventurous and loved life it seemed. It is so sad that David was killed the way he was. I am so thankful there are now suspects and Tiffany isn't one of them! It seems that some talking heads wanted her to be, though. I just cannot imagine how it would feel to be talked about and accused when I had absolutely nothing to do with my husbands death.

I would give anything for Tiffany and Davids family to be able to have Davids' body and be able to give him a dignified funeral. GB them all. My heabreaks for Tiffany and David.

JMO

After seeing Tiffany and David's mother on Geraldo's show last night, I don't have any doubt either about her statements. And seeing the lake, knowing what I do about the drug cartels and violence going on in Mexico, I can't understand why anyone is doubting what she says. Yes, it's true she escaped without injury, and maybe that is why some are skeptical, but, imo, by the grace of God she wasn't. If Tiffany had orchestrated something like this on her own, where is David's body and his jet ski? It seems obvious a group was involved and disposed of the 'evidence'. MOO

:rose: for David, RIP

 

[BaileyandBella]

If she just beached it, then how did she get it back on to the trailer? I am very familiar, as we used to have water-crafts.

If she backed her trailer down into the water on the beach, it likely would have gotten stuck in the mud or sand. Backing a trailer down into the water is how a watercraft ( Jet-ski, Seadoo etc) is loaded onto the trailer. Just like a boat.

The water-crafts they had (with seats) would be very heavy and not easily lifted.

 

[CathyinTexas]

If she just beached it, then how did she get it back on to the trailer? I am very familiar, as we used to have water-crafts.

If she backed her trailer down into the water on the beach, it likely would have gotten stuck in the mud or sand. Backing a trailer down into the water is how a watercraft ( Jet-ski, Seadoo etc) is loaded onto the trailer. Just like a boat.

The water-crafts they had (with seats) would be very heavy and not easily lifted.

Maybe someone did it for her, maybe in the local authorities. It was probably evidence at first.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

If she just beached it, then how did she get it back on to the trailer? I am very familiar, as we used to have water-crafts.

If she backed her trailer down into the water on the beach, it likely would have gotten stuck in the mud or sand. Backing a trailer down into the water is how a watercraft ( Jet-ski, Seadoo etc) is loaded onto the trailer. Just like a boat.

The water-crafts they had (with seats) would be very heavy and not easily lifted.

I have not seen any statements regarding how the jet-ski was removed from the area.

I do know the sheriff's department took her life jacket for testing. IMO, they could have done the same thing with the jet-ski. She had told them she tried to get him on her jet-ski. Maybe they took it in for testing also. If I find anything with details about this I will post it.

According to the witness, she was crying, sobbing, hysterical, trembling.

IMO, the sheriff's department made sure the Hartley vehicle, trailer and Tiffany herself were safely transported away from there. Again, that is just speculation on my part.

 

[WellDone]

I feel bad for this poor woman and all of their family and friends as well. But poor Tiffany has had the more difficult time, especially when so many people doubted her story and she's been looked at like a criminal. I just can't even imagine, loosing your husband in such a horrific incident and then to be accused of making it up and that she really killed her husband?!


BBM

It's really sad that victims are revictimized yet criminals are given the presumtion of innocence until proven guilty ~ by law. Granted, especially of late, there have been frauds, but I would rather err on the side of the victims than of the criminals.... JMO

For those who have asked or are wondering, why this couple went across the border at this spot when they knew there had been trouble here before, IMHO, it's because they 'thought it couldn't happen to them.' Of course in hind-sight, they were wrong, but there's many people who are of the same mind-set. I mean, if you've been going back and forth for years and everything was ok, you get a false sense of security.

My son's wife and family are originally from Mexico and they have family all over Mexico. They're always going there for vacation, family gatherings and special occasions. My dil and her parents went just two weeks ago for a cousin's wedding. Because it was further down and they didn't want to drive that far, they crossed over and took a bus for a good deal of the distance.

Of course I worried about them, but they said it would be ok. Then today I read an article that in Brownsville, they had a candle light vigil for a U of T student who was killed a few days prior, when he took a bus in Metamoris to go visit his family. There were three people killed on the bus when a Mexican cartel hijacked a city bus. Now my son goes to Metamoris often to visit his SIL and her family and they tell me Metamoris is safe.

David was a history buff and as a couple, the Hartleys were adventerous. David's sister said in an interview, they had tried to persuade Daviid not to go down that day. He told him 'it would be alright. He can take care of he and Tiffany.' A friend said that David and Tiffany had stayed in their home in Mexico for a while after the violence had erupted, because David said they wouldn't hurt THEM, because they were part of how the locals earned a living, ie visiting local retailers. The Hartleys didn't move back to the U.S. until David's company asked them to, because of the violence that had been reported escalating.

I know at first Mexican LE tried to down-play this and tried to put doubts about the wife's story. But think about it, they didn't want to bring attention to their town, and the spotlight onto the local criminals. But now that it's gotten a LOT of attention, including Ms. Napolitano of HLS, the heat has made it necessary that the local Mexican LE cooperate. Thus, allowing the number of searchers in the vicinity the past several days. And now we hear they have TWO possible suspects.....................The suspects names were most likely provided by the locally based cartel to take the heat off.

I feel bad for this poor woman and all of their family and friends as well. But poor Tiffany has had the more difficult time, especially when so many people doubted her story and she's been looked at like a criminal. I just can't even imagine, loosing your husband in such a horrific incident and then to be accused of making it up and that she really killed her husband?!I pray the cartel and the Mexican authorities follow through with this all the way to the end, and allow this grieving family to bring their loved one home, and prosecute the guilty parites.

JMHO
fran


PS....I'm just going to post again, the link alwaysonmymind provided yesterday about the history of David and Tiffany Hartley. It's the most comprehensive story I've read about the couple thus far. They really seemed like a very nice young couple. Just fwiw,...fran

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16293727


PPS....Here's a link to the student killed in Metamoris. Now he was a Mexican national going to school in the U.S. He was home visiting his family, and ended up an innocent victim. There have been over 25K innocent people killed in this drug war over the past few years. The current president declared war on the cartels, so the majority of the murders have happened during the current administration....fran

http://www.kens5.com/internal?st=print&id=104661534&path=/news
Candlelight vigil takes place for slain Texas student



http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...o_speculation_about_lake_pirates_story_is.php
Napolitano: Speculation About 'Lake Pirates' Story Is 'Unwarranted'

 

[Salem]

WARNING: We do not bring in names of innocent parties. This is a violation of TOS and will result in recommendations for TOs.

Family and friends are not to be sleuthed and brought here UNLESS they have been named by LE or MSM and are related to the case.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Sally10]

and just for the record, I don't think the wife killed him. But I don't believe they were out there to take pictures of the ruins. I think there is much more to this story.

 

[fran]

Interesting post by a reader below the article at this link. Posted 10/03, from a reader from Odessa, Texas. I HOPE they contacted LE as they could be a very valuable witness! IF this couple heard the gunshots, then I would imagine there are other witnesses as well.

I'm sure their story could be verified.

JMHO
fran


http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=29653

 

[darnudes]

Wow, 2 Mexican suspects managed to drive 3 boats and a jet ski - just another thing to make you go hmmm.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

This is the wife's sister's page. Feb. 7th comments wall is open to the public. Have not heard her name in the media at all. Dang it! This is really good too!

I don't know how many sisters TH has, but at least one, TY, has chosen to involve herself in media coverage of the case, and her name and photo have been published by mainstream media:
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_16288054
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16293404 http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=29730
She is also named as giving a eulogy for DH at the memorial attended by the media. http://www.themonitor.com/articles/mexican-43371-officials-presses.html
Another article names the sister as "MY" -- probably just a misspelling, because it refers to her participating in the same meeting with Mexican officials: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/25325206/detail.html

 

[darnudes]

This is a quote from the Sheriff: "U.S. law enforcement officials said Thursday that they have undisclosed "information" leading them to believe Hartley had no criminal involvement in the alleged attack on her husband. Sheriff Martin Cuellar of Webb County, Texas, said Thursday that authorities have information suggesting Hartley's story is credible. "Information has surfaced that we can't disclose at this time that she didn’t commit any kind of offense," Cuellar told reporters. "


TH has basically been cleared at this point by the local authorities.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/1...-alleged-pirate-attack-mexico-reportedly-ids/


Salem

2nd BBM


David Hartley is missing and one of the reasons for the speculation are the changes to Tiffany's story. This story reminds me in some ways of the Jon Hemingway case. His thread is in the missing/located forum

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115970"]MA MA - Jon Hemingway, 36, Nantucket, 17 March 2010 - Thread #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I just hope what ever happened here results in justice for David Hartley.

 

[Sally10]

I only hope that LE gets to the bottom of things. No matter what, every American deserves a proper American burial and closure for their family.

 

[Babyslims]

I've seen her postings on facebook re the guns - interesting is all I can say.

I'll just ditto that! (biting tongue)

 

[WellDone]

I only hope that LE gets to the bottom of things. No matter what, every American deserves a proper American burial and closure for their family.

BBM

So true!

 

[Linda7NJ]

I only hope that LE gets to the bottom of things. No matter what, every American deserves a proper American burial and closure for their family.

Americans need to remember the risk is real, whenever they leave American soil, especially when they do so illegally.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Americans need to remember the risk is real, whenever they leave American soil, especially when they do so illegally.

Too late for that now in this case, but he still deserves to be found and brought back to his family.
I can't imagine this happening to me and not being able to bury my husband. No matter what decisions he made in life.

JMO

 

[darnudes]

David Harley's sister NH, left, and her sister-in-law TY, second from left, leave the Mexican Consulate Office in Denver on Friday, Oct. 8, 2010, after meeting with Consul General of Mexico in Denver Eduardo Arnal Palomera, third from left. About 100 friends and supporters of a David Hartley, who was reportedly shot and killed by Mexican pirates, rallied outside the Mexican consulate to call on authorities to bring his body back to the United States.

(photo at link)

http://oneclick.indiatimes.com/photo/072n2TH4Bp4b2?q=Denver