Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[Intermezzo]

Does anyone have a link to the Dash Cam Video taken by the State Trooper when he pulled the Hartley's over?
I only have part of the transcript from a CBS news article

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/11/earlyshow/main6946795.shtml
snipped

"dash cam video taken from a police cruiser provides more support for Tiffany Hartley's story that Mexican pirates attacked the couple while they were jet skiing on the lake and taking pictures of a sunken church.

In a video shot from a police "dash-cam," the couple can be seen being pulled over shortly before getting to the lake, jet skis in tow.

The trooper can be heard asking, "Where you headed to?"

David Hartley replies, "Out to Falcon"

The trooper says, "To Falcon?"

David says, "Yeah."

The trooper says, "Going jet skiing for the day, or what?"

David can be heard saying, "Yeah, I figure we'll play around for a bit."

Johnny Hernandez, of the Texas Department of Public Safety, told CBS News, "It proves that they were together. That they were en route to Falcon Lake to enjoy the day."

Tiffany said on "The Early Show," the border patrol saw the couple several times on their way to the lake. "

:waitasec: I would expect them to be together in these videos, these were taken BEFORE they launched the jet ski in the water at Falcon Lake and headed towards Mexico.

Okay, my question is this...Were they not on their way to Falcon Lake with the intention of visiting the submerged church in Mexico? Isn't that what Tiffany said as the reason they went out to Falcon Lake?

Yet, according to the transcript there is No mention from David that they intended to cross into Mexico for some sightseeing even though the Trooper probed more and asked "going jet skiing for the day or what?" and David answers "yeah, I figure we'll play around for a bit"

So if anyone has a link to the complete dash cam video I would love to see it.
Thanks.

 

[Tuffy]

Wow, that's an incredibly vague way to define legal vs. illegal entry -- "generally defined as", "20-30 kilometers", "depending on the location" --sounds like it would be awfully difficult to know whether or not you needed to have documents authorizing you to be there.

From my limited research so far, I still get the impression that you need to enter the country at a port of entry. I'm not getting any really concrete answers though. Anyone? (although I'm not really sure it matters in this case or not.)


I've never really been to the Mexico side though, maybe the checkpoints are located 20-30 km inside the border and you're cool as long as you are within that zone.

 

[Tuffy]

DashCam video:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnfUyOnZBPo[/ame]

 

[Intermezzo]

Several tropical storms brought lots of rain to that area this summer. Only time Old Guerrero is above water is during EXTREME drought conditions.

http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/eacs_sheet.html

Entry to Mexico: As of March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children -- must present a valid passport, book or card, for travel beyond the “border zone” into the interior of Mexico. Entry by any means, for example by plane or car, is included in this requirement. The “border zone” is generally defined as an area between 20 to 30 kilometers of the border with the U.S., depending on the location. Stays of less than 72 hours within the border zone do not require a visa or tourist card.

Thanks.I had not heard or read of the above before. learned something new today.

Does anyone know the answer to the following:

1) Does the town of Old Guerrero fall under this "border zone" where people can, like in this case, enter another country by watercraft without inspection and bypass Border Patrol Agents from both countries?

2) Is the above an "exception" then to the Laws enacted by the Department of Homeland Security and Department of State in the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative?

 

[Intermezzo]

When this story initially broke, I accepted it at face value. Then, as more details were revealed I still believed Tiffany's account of events, but felt quite strongly that there were additional details about why the couple were there that Tiffany did not divulge. Now, Tiffany has made several tv statements, and there are conflicting statements from the Mexican government re: suspects. In addition, the logical breakdown of other aspects - the eye witness who did not see David get shot but saw Tiffany all shook up, the stop by LE for the expired tag, the Border Patrol agents who saw them at subway - none of those aspects really can prove exactly what happened to David, only where the couple were prior to the tragic event. So, sadly, the more I hear from Tiffany, and the more I read in the news, the less I find her story credible. Something just isn't ringing true, IMHO. I sure do hope I am wrong.

BBM
I am still on the fence and I do have the same reservation as you posted and
I hope I am wrong also because David Hartley is the victim here and I truly hope his body is recovered and sent back to the US.

 

[laytonian]

The severed head of the Mexican investigator in charge of this case, has been delivered to the Mexican Army.

(Breaking news on MSNBC)

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Now, why would this happen?

The severed head of a Mexican investigator involved in the Falcon Lake case was delivered to the Mexican army today, according to state Rep. Aaron Peña, D-Edinburg.

Peña reported via Twitter that he had confirmed the information with Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez, whose office is heading the U.S. investigation into the Sept. 30 disappearance of David Michael Hartley.

____

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/mexican-43531-delivered-severed.html

 

[tfrohning]

Breaking news/CNN

David Hartley's head delivered to MX authorities.

So very very sad. What a cruel thing to do!

May God Bless David and Tiffany and their families.

I didn't read that does CNN have this wrong?

snip
The severed head of a Mexican investigator involved in the Falcon Lake case was delivered to the Mexican army, according to state Rep. Aaron Peña, D-Edinburg.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/mexican-117966-delivered-head.html

 

[IWannaKnow]

Originally posted by hollyblue

These witnesses did not see the crime that resulted in her husband being disappeared did they? One thing is strange.....you don't go dove hunting with machine guns or automatic weapons. So they must have been single shots?

Numerous articles have identified the pirates as carrying machine guns, AK-47's etc, in previous encounters going back at least six months. Who was going dove hunting and where did that come in? The lady who says she heard the shots?

 

[Intermezzo]

I also think it's odd that Tiffany was pretty adamant that David's body would be found on LAND. Why would she think that if he was shot and left in the middle of the lake?

Does anyone have a link with a picture showing where she said he was shot on the Mexico side of the lake?

Was it in the middle of Falcon Lake or was it in the narrow part where Old Guerrero is located before it opens up to the lake.

 

[laytonian]

Thanks.I had not heard or read of the above before. learned something new today.

Does anyone know the answer to the following:

1) Does the town of Old Guerrero fall under this "border zone" where people can, like in this case, enter another country by watercraft without inspection and bypass Border Patrol Agents from both countries?

2) Is the above an "exception" then to the Laws enacted by the Department of Homeland Security and Department of State in the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative?

1. Yes.
2. It's actually nothing new. The ONLY update is that a passport (rather than another form of government-issued ID) is requried to travel BEYOND the border zone.

The purpose is to allow the free flow of tourism through the border areas (ie, so that you don't have to show a passport to transit between El Paso TX and Juarez MX, for instance). Or that you don't have to be fully searched and show a passport, when fishing on Falcon Lake.

To do otherwise, would cost much more than most US taxpayers (oddly, the "law and order" types) are willing to pay.

I'm willing to pay higher taxes to protect our borders FULLY (both NORTH and South, because all terrorists who've entered our country have come from the North).....

Is anyone else willing to pay those higher taxes?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Just heard on FOX - Shepard Smith - reported that a private investigator investigating David Hartley's death has been found decapitated. Oh my - so sad.

 

[LaMer]

I didn't read that does CNN have this wrong?

snip
The severed head of a Mexican investigator involved in the Falcon Lake case was delivered to the Mexican army, according to state Rep. Aaron Peña, D-Edinburg.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/mexican-117966-delivered-head.html

So sorry, I posted it wrong, and DELETED! oops sorreeee

Maybe a mod can delete this too.

 

[zelmajane]

Just heard on FOX - Shepard Smith - reported that a private investigator investigating David Hartley's death has been found decapitated. Oh my - so sad.

Came here to say I saw the same thing.

I had to rewind and watch again.

Blows my mind.

They have a mess down there.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Its on HLN right now.
He was a Mexican investigator and his head was put in a suitcase and delivered to the Mexican army.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I had a feeling this would happen.

IMO, this is why the denial was given.

"No, we don't have any suspects." They know what happens all too often to police officials.
It was already too late to save him.

Prayers for his family.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WellDone]

I had a feeling this would happen.

IMO, this is why the denial was given.

"No, we don't have any suspects." They know what happens all too often to police officials.
It was already too late to save him.

Prayers for his family.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM

Exactly & I also think it is because of THIS EVENT or the threat of similar that TH was so hesitant when asked if she would return to Mexico should there be a trial..... um, no, I don't blame her... I wouldn't either!

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Just wanted to add two more cents: One of the things that has bothered me greatly from the beginning is Tiffany's statement that she was being shot at while riding away from the pirates on her jetski. Sounds like a scene from a James Bond movie - she manages to evade every bullet?? And why did the pirates shoot her husband in the head point blank, but wait until after she tried to get his body onto her jetski before shooting at her?? It seems to me that while she was occupied trying to get the body onto her jetski that the pirates would have had a great oppportunity to shoot her. So many things just don't add up, IMO.

Her "story" sure begs the question of what the heck did the pirates *want*? Just randomly murdering tourists doesn't get them anything, so why do it? Theoretically, I guess they could have wanted the jet-ski, but seems like there would have been an easier way, like waiting until they were stopped or got off the jet-skis to take pictures, and then just pointing a gun and telling them to jump in the water while pirates jumped on the jet-skis and zoomed away.

 

[missyjane77]

They are saying it's Commander Rolando Flores and this isn't related to the jet ski case.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39637423/ns/world_news-americas/

 

[alwaysonmymind]

A spokesman for the prosecutor's office in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas confirmed that Commander Rolando Flores, the head of state investigators in the border city of Ciudad Miguel Aleman, had been killed.

Flores was investigating the disappearance of Hartley, but the prosecutor's spokesman said the death was unrelated.

Still, Flores last weekend had delivered information about two alleged Mexican gang members to KRGV TV in Texas as part of its investigation into Hartley's disappearance.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39637423/ns/world_news-americas/#slice-2

What? He was just next on the beheading list?

Now, THIS, I'm skeptical of.