Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[oh_gal]

That's what I was thinking too.

Yes, I saw your earlier post when I "backtracked". GMTA

 

[IWannaKnow]

If they were running from the pirates, the pirates would be behind them and therefore the bullets would be coming from behind. An entrance wound does not look like an exit wound, and if he were shot in the back of the head, the exit wound would most likely be where Tiffany is indicating in her interviews. I've read that she said his brains were spilling out, which would make sense given the scenario, and once she saw that, she had to know it was a lost cause, whether God told her to leave or not.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/entrance-and-exit-wounds.html

Exit Wounds
Exit wounds - as we have already mentioned - are usually larger than the entrance wound and this is because as the round moves through the body of the victim it slows down and explodes within the tissue and surrounding muscle. This slowing down of the projectile means that as it reaches the end of its trajectory it has to force harder to push through. This equates to the exit wound normally looking larger and considerably more destructive than its pre-cursor - the entrance wound.

Exit wounds will often bleed profusely as they are larger but entrance wounds can sometimes look only like small holes - unless the weapon is fired at close proximity to the victim.

She still tried to get him up on her jet ski, despite the fact that he was twice her size. I have to assume they surrounded her once she stopped and I have no trouble with the idea they were pointing a gun at her, but I do not get that they let her go, then chased her back across the lake. If they did not intend to kill her, why chase her??? The post by mysterygirl makes the most sense re: David's body - they did not want to get into trouble for an unauthorized hit, but why let a witness go if that is the case?? If they had just shot them both and disposed of the bodies and jet skis....

Could they have intended to kidnap her (blondes are a commodity in Mexico) but she managed to evade them with the jet ski? Supposedly they are all in bass boats...

 

[Dogface]

I saw some interesting comments left on the abc story, and wanted to do some searching, and was wondering if anyone knows her maiden name?

 

[cmsg2002]

Could the injury to the front of his head be an exit wound?

Possibly...but I think that would mean it would had to have been a shot from close range?

 

[Linda7NJ]

BBM - I've never read that. Is this for real or are you just thinking this is what they would do? I'm just wondering if this has happened in other cases.

It's what they do.

Just do a google image search. I started to link a few, but decided against it. The photos are incredibly gruesome.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It's what they do.

Just do a google image search. I started to link a few, but decided against it. The photos are incredibly gruesome.

I googled and googled after I asked the question. I can't find anything about Mexican pirates leaving bodies to mark their territories.

ETA: Can I ask what phrase you used in your search? I'm not finding anything. Images don't really tell a story. Idk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I googled and googled after I asked the question. I can't find anything about Mexican pirates leaving bodies to mark their territories.

ETA: Can I ask what phrase you used in your search? I'm not finding anything. Images don't really tell a story. Idk

Well if you've seen the images of murdered bodies strewn all over, especially in Ciudad Juarez , it's safe to say they leave the bodies, they don't drag them off.

It's my opinion, the drug gangs kill over territory, same as here. They don't bother stopping to clean up the mess. It's also my opinion, that they are animals marking their territory.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Well if you've seen the images of murdered bodies strewn all over, especially in Ciudad Juarez , it's safe to say they leave the bodies, they don't drag them off.

It's my opinion, the drug gangs kill over territory, same as here. They don't bother stopping to clean up the mess. It's also my opinion, that they are animals marking their territory.

Ok, fair enough. I was just trying to see if this was fact or opinion because I found it very interesting and could not find anything on it.

When I think of drug gangs killing over territory, I think of them killing rival sellers or gangs for selling on "their turf". I never really thought of that in this case of a couple jet skiing on a lake. That's why I was asking.

I think these priates have a different mind set. I think they are just bullying and robbing innocent people. Not really murdering rivals for getting on their turf.

ETA: I looked it up and you are right. They kill members of rival gangs and don't hide the bodies.
IMO that is not the same thing as we have here. This was a young American couple jetskiing.

 

[passionflower]

OK, my hinky meter is off the charts.......JMOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Ok, fair enough. I was just trying to see if this was fact or opinion because I found it very interesting and could not find anything on it.

When I think of drug gangs killing over territory, I think of them killing rival sellers or gangs for selling on "their turf". I never really thought of that in this case of a couple jet skiing on a lake. That's why I was asking.

I think these priates have a different mind set. I think they are just bullying and robbing innocent people. Not really murdering rivals for getting on their turf.

ETA: I looked it up and you are right. They kill members of rival gangs and don't hide the bodies.
IMO that is not the same thing as we have here. This was a young American couple jetskiing.

Exactly! They've bullied and robbed in this lake prior. and no one can convince me this couple didn't know!

It just doesn't add up, I will apologize now in case I'm wrong. I simply do not believe her.

 

[Jolynna]

Respectfully snipped...
ETA: I looked it up and you are right. They kill members of rival gangs and don't hide the bodies.
IMO that is not the same thing as we have here. This was a young American couple jetskiing.

What would be the point of taking a dead body after the pirates didn't get the wife? A body is risky dead weight.

 

[LNL]

the location of the head wound is a little puzzling to me as well. The wife said she saw her husband get shot, she went to his aid and he was floating in the water face down. She turned him over and then saw the bullet wound to the front of his head.

I think we'll all just have to wait and see how this plays out.....

BBM

Wouldn't it be difficult for a women her size, balancing on a jetski, to turn him over, even if he was wearing a life vest? He looks like a rather large man.

I wonder if he had a large life insurance policy that was taken out recently.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Ok Linda, I agree with that. I never said they didn't know.

I think in one of the articles or in one of the interviews, (I have no clue where I read/heard/saw it) but they said they were aware of the dangers but they thought they would be ok for some reasons. The reason was given but I don't remember what it was.
They knew the dangers. No doubt in my mind.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

What would be the point of taking a dead body after the pirates didn't get the wife? A body is risky dead weight.

I have no clue. I admit, I don't think like prates. There are several theories floating around about that though. My mind is like scrambled eggs right now. Been a long day.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

A little about the "witness"...

Gonzalez pointed out that an independent witness — a man working outside that afternoon — looked out across the lake to see a small boat with four or five men in it chasing Tiffany Hartley on her WaveRunner. The pursuit lasted until she ran her machine aground in Zapata.

Read more: Kin, friends bid farewell to American slain in Mexico waters - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage/ci_16264273#ixzz11adnxEuH

BBM ~ another mismatch to the story. TH told it that there were three boats involved yet the witness said he saw one boat with four or five men in it. :waitasec:

I didn't doubt her story when I first heard it but I began noticing subtle differences in her story (or not so subtle). The first time I heard her recounting what had happened she never mentioned looking down the barrel of a gun. I wonder if she could have said that as a figure of speech and not meant it literally but it sounded as if she was saying that she literally looked down the barrel of a gun. :waitasec:

 

[Intermezzo]

Exactly! They've bullied and robbed in this lake prior. and no one can convince me this couple didn't know!

It just doesn't add up, I will apologize now in case I'm wrong. I simply do not believe her.

Hi all,
I usally don't venture out of the Caylee forum but wanted to spread my wings here on WS

Have other boaters on this lake been shot at and/or killed on the spot like this guy was?

I didn't get to watch the whole segment with the wife but did she say the pirates demanded anything such as money? or did they just show up and shot her husband?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Story is being covered now on JVM.

A reporter named Will is saying that he saw the jetski and there is no physical damage or sign of a struggle. He saw the jetski the day the incident was reported.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi all,
I usally don't venture out of the Caylee forum but wanted to spread my wings here on WS

Have other boaters on this lake been shot at and/or killed on the spot like this guy was?

I didn't get to watch the whole segment with the wife but did she say the pirates demanded anything such as money? or did they just show up and shot her husband?

As far as I know, the husband was just shot for being on the Mexican side of the lake - no demands were made.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

They're showing lots of people on a rather large dock. Tiffany is there along with several authorities wearing black life jackets. Turf wars going on in this area. Area is South of Laredo - a killing field. They use the lake to cross over their drugs according to a reporter. The pirates are fighting for control of this particular area. In August they tried to pose as game "wardins" spelled incorrectly on their boat and that tipped the fisherman off. The pirates tried to lure him to their side of the lake.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hi all,
I usally don't venture out of the Caylee forum but wanted to spread my wings here on WS

Have other boaters on this lake been shot at and/or killed on the spot like this guy was?

I didn't get to watch the whole segment with the wife but did she say the pirates demanded anything such as money? or did they just show up and shot her husband?

Glad you ventured here Spread those wings!

No others ( fisherman) have been shot on the spot like this guy allegedly was. Robbed, yes.

I still can't understand how he was shot between the eyes while being chased on a jet ski.

According to her, as she tried to get her shot husband onto her jet ski....their boat was 10 feet away from her and a gun was pointed at her. They apparently decided not to shoot her and retreated. God told her she had to leave, so she did.

The "witness" reported story does not match her own account.