Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[claudicici]

ITA,kateyes,but there also has to be a reason why they did not kill her?

 

[darnudes]

I have never in my life seen a person transporting pot be so blatant about.

Turns out is was a federal vehicle transporting seized marijuana.

Snipped:

The Texas Department of Public Safety, meanwhile, released a video of the Hartleys being stopped for an expired trailer plate the morning of the alleged attack.

DPS spokeswoman Tela Mange said the 10-minute video shows the Hartleys being pulled over Sept. 30 at about 11:30 a.m. on U.S. Highway 83 in Rio Grande City, about an hour east of Zapata.

Mange said the two weren't ticketed or cited because the troopers saw a couple trucks go by with what appeared to be a large amount of marijuana. She said the trucks turned out to be unmarked federal vehicles transporting seized loads.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/me...or_hartley_104604329.html?c=y&page=2#storytop

 

[Pedrosmom]

I don't believe this woman is capable of bringing a weapon on a jet ski trip with her husband. You could barely fit a pair of sunglasses in the little compartment much less a weapon and wouldn't he see it?

I believe the pirates took the jet ski and possibly the body. Both are worth something to someone.

 

[rossva]

I agree.

Don't know if I am the only one on Websleuths who believes Tiffany Hartley's story. But I do. It is sad that people are vilifying her. I personally think she was divinely protected. In my mind there is no other explanation. The video of the sheriff pulling her and her husband over, both jet skis on the back and David being heard saying they were going to the lake settles it for me. Also, there was blood on her vest.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

David Hartley remembered as an ideal husband, son, friend

They married June 1, 2002, and their honeymoon cruise — complete with paragliding — sparked in them a sense of adventure.
In the ensuing years, they traveled extensively. They became certified scuba divers. They traveled to Kenya in 2005 as part of a mission, helping build an orphanage. They rode their WaveRunners across open water.
"Fun," Bob Young said, "he just liked to have fun."

~snip~

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16293727

What a wonderful life they had together.

The article has more about where they had lived and his employment.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

The Mexican government is beyond corrupt! Without going into great detail, my grandfather died over there while vacationing in Puerto Vallarta. Long story short my family had to payoff numberous people just from them to release his body to be brought home. It costing 10K when it was all said and done, from paying of doctors to airport employee's to so on. So, I am not the least bit surprised by what is happening!

 

[fran]

Several years ago, my husband managed a maciadora over there, in addition to a plant in the U.S. I know one time they were stopped by LE and my hubby told the driver to give the cop $$ and they'd let them go.....they did.

A few years ago he had an opportunity to run a plant just on the other side of the border near TJ. I begged him not to take the job. There have been two men kidnapped when they went to work at their businesses across the border. One was set free after ransom paid, the other was found dead. They were both residents of the San Diego area.

I have searched and found a number of incidents in Mexico, in recent years, where the people knew the risk, but thought they were safe in either Puerta Villarta or Cabo. They were wrong. The one couple, after they were robbed, didn't contact LE or the consulate or anything, left 1/2 their belongings behind and returned days early from the vacation, they couldn't wait to get out of there..................another couple from Wi, had been vacationing in Mexico for years. They heard of all the violence but had never had a problem, until their last trip. They crossed the US/Mexico border for their two month vacation. They were followed at high speeds by a car and after they lost them, another one came up and made them stop. The husband was on the ground, face down, they put the gun right up to his arm and shot him. His wife gave them the keys, got out of the car and they took off.

This could have happened to anyone. This woman is lucky to be alive. I pray they find poor David's body. He needs to be brought back to his family.

The article alwaysonmymind linked on the last page, is very detailed and tells you a lot about this couple. They appeared to be very loving and wonderful people. Sometimes life just doesn't seem fair.

JMHO
fran

PS....fwiw, last night I saw an interview on Greta with a witness. I've tried to find a transcript or youtube, but I don't believe there is one...................anyway, the witness had his back to the camera and spoke about when Tiffany came ripping up the water with the fishing boat following her. The fishing boat eventually turned and headed the other way. He said as Tiffany approached she was crying and SOBBING and when she reached shore she was trembling. She quickly told him what happened and had said that when she realized her husband was shot, she turned around and tried to get him onto her ski. She rolled him over and he was gurgling........I'm not going to say what she SAW when she turned him over, FOX warned it was graphic.

Anyway, what this witness said sounds like what LE refers to as 'excited utterences,' which they use every day in a court of law. It's probably the closest you're going to get to what happened.

I wouldn't doubt if Tiffany is STILL in shock from this ordeal.

 

[CathyinTexas]

It seems to me, the couples relationship before the incident is very important. We heard from one family friend who was irate that anyone would question Tiffany's story and described a couple in love, whose relationship was envied. Also, the pictures we have seen of the two of them together supports this. They both look very happy and in love. Tiffany has stated that he was everything to her and did everything for her, so why would she have anything to do with his demise? I agree that is mysterious as to why a couple would place themselves in danger like this but there are many daring adventure seeking people in this world of both genders. I think that is probably all it was. I think the reason for their going to the dangerous waters may be the only thing I am not sure about.

 

[CathyinTexas]

She seems to be calm and willing to answer questions, perfect conditions for a LDT. I guess she doesn't need to because LE believe her but I know if it were me and even one person doubted my story I would take the test.

I am one of the doubters of the validity of LDTs. There is a moderator on Websleuths who said she can't ever take one because she is one that fails. Some people will look like they are lying about true information about themselves, such as address and age. There is a good reason they are not allowed in a court of law unless both sides agree before it is taken. So I don't think Tiffany should take a lie detector test.

 

[rookie]

As far as the danger of going to the church.
The pictures of this couple show they scuba dive, fly in either small planes or helicopters to get to remote destinations, etc.
They seemed to enjoy a little bit of the "daredevil" lifestyle.

After awhile you just assume things aren't going to go wrong for you, just this time.
As so they take risks that some might not.

 

[hollyblue]

No, you're not the only one. There are a few people at websleuths who believe Tiffany and they are able to post without being attacked.

No one here is vilifying her that I have read. If that were the case I would expect some deleted posts and timeouts. Some here, including me, don't believe her story happened the way she says it did. We don't know what happened but to us her story has holes in it and we would like those clarified, as there is a missing man out there who was a son and a brother and obviously had a family who love him very much.

I accept your right to post your views even if I don't agree with them and I hope I get the same in return.

I'm on the side of non-belief at this point...not to say I can't change my mind...but; I want to know more about the moving to CO. part. Maybe she didn't want to move there? What was the reason and the circumstances surrounding that move??? Just curious.....

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Another thing and this is jmo.... you can not trust the Mexican Feds. They are paid off by these drug cartels to stay out of their way. I am not saying they all are this way but a good portion of them are, sooooo just because they haven't found anything yet does not mean anything, they may have found something and just aren't saying, their family's are at stake as well kwim.....

Very true. And while I'm sure there are "good guys" among the Mexican feds, who will take some risks to try to help clearly innocent people, illegal border-crossers with fishy stories about why they were crossing and what happened aren't likely to meet the criteria for risking one's own life to investigate or publicize information.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

The pictures of this couple show they scuba dive, fly in either small planes or helicopters to get to remote destinations, etc.

So do big-time drug dealers. Just saying . . .

 

[hollyblue]

So do big-time drug dealers. Just saying . . .

Yep, and they even have their own submarines now. No chit.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Seems the police believe her. They are still searching the lake.

The latter doesn't necessarily imply the former. If they think she killed him on the lake, they'd still be searching the lake (for both the body and other evidence, such as a wound-matching weapon she might have dumped, but that "pirates" would have been very unlikely to dump).

 

[pinkpuddytat]

FWIW, people grieve differently. Not everyone cries when they grieve.

I watch TV or Internet news video very infrequently, so my impressions are usually not based on gut feelings about someone's body language or tears/lack thereof. In nearly every case, when I do see related video, it's only after I've read a lot of news articles, and formed an initial impression based on those.

Even when I have seen video of someone who is somehow involved in a death or disappearance, I don't put much stock in the degree of tears/grief displayed. Not only do "people grieve differently", as you pointed out, but people who are falling apart from the shock and grief of something like this (OR pretending to be falling apart) are often prescribed drugs to help them stay calm and cope better. Depending on dose, type of drug, and individual reaction, being medicated can often leave people appearing (and feeling) as if they have little or no emotion at all. And if they're aware of appearing/feeling this way and are making public appearances, they may well feel the need to force some emotional display, because they know how it would look to *them* if somebody whose child had just disappeared or whose husband had just been murdered, wasn't showing significant signs of grief. Again, this all applies to both real grievers and fakers, so that's why I pay little attention to outward signs of grief or lack thereof.

Other aspects of body language and behavior can be revealing, though. E.g. avoiding eye contact with an interviewer or other family member, resistance of another family member to physical contact (saw some of that in the Kyron Horman case, where Terri appeared to be trying to bury her tearful face in her husbands shoulder, and he appeared to recoil slightly). Eagerness to change the subject is another eyebrow-raiser in my book, as in Mrs. Hartley's quickness to claim US politicians are more interested in election campaigning than searching for her husband.

 

[laytonian]

The latter doesn't necessarily imply the former. If they think she killed him on the lake, they'd still be searching the lake (for both the body and other evidence, such as a wound-matching weapon she might have dumped, but that "pirates" would have been very unlikely to dump).

Or they're searching the lake for the jet ski.

Remember, she said the pirates "followed her". If they did, wouldn't they lose track of the body and jet ski?

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Well if you've seen the images of murdered bodies strewn all over, especially in Ciudad Juarez , it's safe to say they leave the bodies, they don't drag them off.

It's my opinion, the drug gangs kill over territory, same as here. They don't bother stopping to clean up the mess. It's also my opinion, that they are animals marking their territory.

I don't think it's necessarily "territory". Often it appears they just want to terrify people into silence and into not interfering with drug cartel activity anywhere. Leaving gruesomely killed bodies in plain view has this effect, expecially when the bodies are of police or government officials, journalists, or nosy/outspoken citizens. When the bodies are of known rival cartel members, then it's more likely about "territory".

 

[laytonian]

I am one of the doubters of the validity of LDTs. There is a moderator on Websleuths who said she can't ever take one because she is one that fails. Some people will look like they are lying about true information about themselves, such as address and age. There is a good reason they are not allowed in a court of law unless both sides agree before it is taken. So I don't think Tiffany should take a lie detector test.

I think that's the reason she should do so.

As in other noted cases (cough Ramsey cough), you get a friendly, pro-defense lie detector "expert" to test you -- and then the "expert" announces that you passed.

Whether you did or not.

 

[laytonian]

It seems to me, the couples relationship before the incident is very important. We heard from one family friend who was irate that anyone would question Tiffany's story and described a couple in love, whose relationship was envied. Also, the pictures we have seen of the two of them together supports this. They both look very happy and in love. Tiffany has stated that he was everything to her and did everything for her, so why would she have anything to do with his demise? I agree that is mysterious as to why a couple would place themselves in danger like this but there are many daring adventure seeking people in this world of both genders. I think that is probably all it was. I think the reason for their going to the dangerous waters may be the only thing I am not sure about.

In other words, you just described how people saw Scott and Laci Peterson, before she disappeared