Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[Salem]

Oh my!

Poor man and his wife. So sad.

Salem

 

[sorrell skye]

From the audio interview:

Tiffany- We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt. But the realtor didn't get all of that set up.

It sounds like that was the initial plan. The realtor dropped the ball.

From my own personal experience, if given the option to stay in a hotel or move to a home seen only on the internet.....

Room service!!!!

I agree. But doesn't that prove she had some idea of the area she was moving to?

bbm - I LUV room service - I don't have to cook or do dishes!

Tiffany said they had planned to do a house hunt in CO. Where in CO?

Denver, Platteville, or Grand Junction? These are the Colorado locations of Calfrac (DH's employer).

Denver & Platteville are in proximity to one another (close enough to commute for work, IMO).

Grand Junction is near the Utah border (not close enough to commute to Denver or Platteville).

IMO, if one has been in contact with a realtor to do a house hunt, one has an idea of where one is planning on relocating (as in, "we would like to look at houses in this vicinity, and this is the price range we can afford).

Since Tiffany has said that she had spoken with a realtor to set up a house hunt, it leads me to believe she/they had an idea of where they were relocating.

The "We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt" is too vague - it encompasses an entire state.

Yet another aspect of this case that only leads to more questions, and fewer answers.

MOO

 

[WellDone]

bbm - I LUV room service - I don't have to cook or do dishes!

Tiffany said they had planned to do a house hunt in CO. Where in CO?

Denver, Platteville, or Grand Junction? These are the Colorado locations of Calfrac (DH's employer).

Denver & Platteville are in proximity to one another (close enough to commute for work, IMO).

Grand Junction is near the Utah border (not close enough to commute to Denver or Platteville).

IMO, if one has been in contact with a realtor to do a house hunt, one has an idea of where one is planning on relocating (as in, "we would like to look at houses in this vicinity, and this is the price range we can afford).

D & TH probably had plans for the holidays that we don't know about either, but it still doesn't make any of that info relevant to this case.... jmo

Since Tiffany has said that she had spoken with a realtor to set up a house hunt, it leads me to believe she/they had an idea of where they were relocating.

The "We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt" is too vague - it encompasses an entire state.

Yet another aspect of this case that only leads to more questions, and fewer answers.

MOO

BBM

We don't know that TH has not given these details to LE... just because WE don't know the details...... I still don't see what any of this has to do with DH being shot in Mexico.... ?????:waitasec:

D & TH probably had plans for the holidays too that we don't know about, but that doesn't make it relevant to this case..... jmo

 

[alwaysonmymind]

From the audio interview-

Tiffany: We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt, but the realtor didn't get all of that set up.

I could speculate about why they didn't. But I won't.

I can't fit that in as important factual information and/or evidence in David's murder.

 

[sorrell skye]

I know the above post wasn't directed to me but I just wanted to be clear that although I do suspect TH is not telling the whole story, I am not suspecting her of murder or anything else at this point. I haven't heard anything yet that makes me think she murdered him. I just don't believe what she has said so far.

I don't believe TYH is involved in DH's alleged murder, either (IF he was indeed murdered).

At this point in time, there is no concrete evidence to validate the claim that he was shot & killed. His body has not been found, his jet-ski has not been found.

As TYH herself stated (on the Today Show when interviewed by Meridith Vieira):

"Because we do have no evidence..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39542072/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/39547860

No witnesses have come forward to state they saw DH shot & killed on the lake.

I understand this is a difficult, confusing, heart-wrenching case. But, IMO, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

ETA: if DH has a life insurance policy, I have no doubt these same questions are being pondered by the insurer.

 

[WellDone]

I don't believe TYH is involved in DH's alleged murder, either (IF he was indeed murdered).

At this point in time, there is no concrete evidence to validate the claim that he was shot & killed. His body has not been found, his jet-ski has not been found.

As TYH herself stated (on the Today Show when interviewed by Meridith Vieira):

"Because we do have no evidence..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39542072/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/39547860

No witnesses have come forward to state they saw DH shot & killed on the lake.

I understand this is a difficult, confusing, heart-wrenching case. But, IMO, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

ETA: if DH has a life insurance policy, I have no doubt these same questions are being pondered by the insurer.

BBM

Considering that the lead investigator on this case just had his head delivered in a suitcase to the Mexican Army.... would you come forward????

I sure wouldn't....... As ashamed as that makes me feel to even type/think that.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

BBM

Considering that the lead investigator on this case just had his head delivered in a suitcase to the Mexican Army.... would you come forward????

I sure wouldn't....... As ashamed as that makes me feel to even type/think that.

If anyone does speak up, it's as an unnamed source for obvious reasons.

Too many of the Mexican officials are on the cartel payroll. How could anyone trying to give information know who's safe??

Zeta scouts had identified the Hartleys’ truck as the couple was en route to the reservoir and watched them set out personal watercraft toward the Old Guerrero area, STRATFOR reported on its website, citing unnamed sources.

"Both Gulf Cartel and Los Zetas operatives have been known to conduct surveillance and counter surveillance operations on personal watercraft, so these scouts thus identified the Hartleys as possible Gulf surveillance assets, given their vehicle’s license plate and their method and direction of travel on Falcon Lake," the think tank said. "Their description and position was radioed to Los Zetas members on the Mexican side of the lake, after which the couple was apparently confronted by Zetas enforcers."

STRATFOR said its sources reported that higher-ranking Zeta members had not green-lighted the attack and that a "damage control campaign" spearheaded by Zeta leader Miguel “Z-40” Trevino Morales is now under way to identify and eliminate those who carried out the attack.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/mistaken-118058-report-rival.html

I wonder where the scouts on the Texas side are? And how long they followed them? It would be helpful if our Border Patrol, DEA, the sheriff's department could listen in on the radios the cartel is using.

Now I'm worried the guy who did come forward. If the scouts followed them down there, they could have waited around to see what happened.

 

[easttexas]

I don't believe TYH is involved in DH's alleged murder, either (IF he was indeed murdered).

At this point in time, there is no concrete evidence to validate the claim that he was shot & killed. His body has not been found, his jet-ski has not been found.

As TYH herself stated (on the Today Show when interviewed by Meridith Vieira):

"Because we do have no evidence..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39542072/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/39547860

No witnesses have come forward to state they saw DH shot & killed on the lake.

I understand this is a difficult, confusing, heart-wrenching case. But, IMO, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

ETA: if DH has a life insurance policy, I have no doubt these same questions are being pondered by the insurer.

I think several scenarios and not one of them leads me to believe that David is dead. If he is and Tiffany is telling some what of a convoluted truth I will be on here saying how sorry I am for doubting her story. I just can't get past her talking so much about border control....they lived in Mexico because the company will pay all expenses if living internationally but only for one year if they lived in McAllen, TX. They moved to McAllen in June...and the company made them relocate to TX due to the violence....hmmmm interesting.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Yep...on the very first news story I saw, she said a gun was held to her head.

She said it was POINTED at her head and she was looking at the barrel.

 

[sorrell skye]

BBM

Considering that the lead investigator on this case just had his head delivered in a suitcase to the Mexican Army.... would you come forward????

I sure wouldn't....... As ashamed as that makes me feel to even type/think that.

I understand, Welldone. No need at all to feel ashamed. When people are afraid, of course they wouldn't want to put themselves at risk. I understand that.

It's tragic that this investigator was brutally murdered by these Zeta scum thugs. They make me sick. My heart goes out to his family. As far as I'm concerned, these Zetas need to be rounded up & locked away for life & then some. I have zero sympathy for them.

Here's the thing. In several interviews, TYH has exhibited no emotion, IMO, toward the group of thugs that she claims are responsible for her husband's execution (based on her statements to the media).

These are her words from one of her latest interviews:

"We just want David back," she said. "Maybe they can't provide a body, I don't know. But they can provide something of evidence, anything that would tell us where David's at. We just want him back. Give us that, and we'll go away."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-13/...ug-mexican-authorities-tamaulipas?_s=PM:CRIME

In another interview that was published Oct. 11 (when discussing the two brothers who were initially reported to be suspects in her husband's alleged murder, and then it was later reported they had no connection), TYH stated:

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now. All I want is David back.”

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/st...ithout_david_104711294.html?showFullArticle=y

I can tell you this, as the mother of a daughter who was the victim of a violent attack & attempted murder, I WANTED JUSTICE (as did my daughter).

IMO, victims WANT justice.

I find it extremely odd that TYH states that she doesn't care about justice, after claiming to have witnessed the alleged brutal murder of her beloved husband of 8 years (her high school sweetheart).

And, as I stated before, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

MOO

 

[akashana]

I would think the Mexican Consulate could arrange for Tiffany to file a report through them, FGS.

I do not blame her - I would not go to Mexico either.

JMO

Me neither. I don't think her unwillingness to go down there is indicative of guilt at all. Guilty or innocent, it could easily go badly for her. Guilty, she risks arrest, prosecution in Mexican courts, jail. Innocent, she could go home in a body bag minus her head.

No-win situation either way. Her husband's dead and nothing will bring him back. If the cartels are indeed responsible, I seriously doubt the kangaroo court system will ever prosecute the guilty parties. I'd stay far north of that border for all time, me.

 

[sorrell skye]

Me neither. I don't think her unwillingness to go down there is indicative of guilt at all. Guilty or innocent, it could easily go badly for her. Guilty, she risks arrest, prosecution in Mexican courts, jail. Innocent, she could go home in a body bag minus her head.

No-win situation either way. Her husband's dead and nothing will bring him back. If the cartels are indeed responsible, I seriously doubt the kangaroo court system will ever prosecute the guilty parties. I'd stay far north of that border for all time, me.

ITA. Even though I have my own doubts about what exactly happened in this case, TYH should definitely NOT set foot in Mexico.

ETA: But one thing that should definitely happen, IMO, is that this case needs to be investigated from this side of the border, regardless of what TYH claims to have occurred.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Here's the thing. In several interviews, TYH has exhibited no emotion, IMO, toward the group of thugs that she claims are responsible for her husband's execution (based on her statements to the media).

[snipped for space]

I agree with everything you've said. And here's another thing I found odd: supposedly after seeing her husband shot dead for no apparent reason, not even an attempted robbery, by these thugs, before her eyes, the worst she can muster to say about them is "they aren't compassionate to anybody" (forgetting, of course, that according to her story they had to at least have had a moment of compassion to let her live while they decided what to do with her rather than just killing her as a matter of course. But I digress.)

Nothing near as passionate as something along the lines of "these animals need to be put down" that I've read from other, uninvolved, commenters about this case.


Link: http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=525720

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to, and I have searched. I would appreciate help from anyone who can point me toward an answer.

In the "mistaken identity" scenario, just how and where were the Zetas conducting surveillance of the Hartleys? On the Mexican side or the American side? If on the American side, by car, or...? If on the Mexican side...how?

Thanks.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Cancel your Mexico plans, authorities release travel warning
by James Munoz / KENS 5 Staff
Posted on October 14, 2010 at 12:48 PM
Updated today at 1:23 PM

Related:
Jonas Brothers cancel Mexico show due to violence
SAN ANTONIO -- Authorities released a travel warning again advising Texans to stay out of Mexico.

Texas Homeland Security Director Steve McCraw issued a travel warning stating nobody should head to Mexico at this point.

McCraw stressed the advisory due to the increased violence and threat from drug cartels.

~snip~

So a travel warning for all of Mexico?

This is from the KENS 5 new website. I'm on my phone and can't bring the link.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Thanks for the information. I've seen a multitude of posts proclaiming that the couple were there illegally and that they had no business crossing over into the Mexican side of the border. I'm glad you cleared this up. BTW, even if they had crossed illegally, that does not make it right to be shot or shot at. Not directed to you, but to the posters who post as if what happened was deserved in some way...

Thanks lone, but I'm not sure I have. :crazy:
I've looked and looked....googled and googled. I can't find a definite answer.

From what I have gathered, from what I can tell, it's not illegal to boat across to Mexican waters but it is illegal to fish there without a Mexican fishing license. Who knows.

 

[Tuffy]

http://www.sunherald.com/2010/10/14/2556611/report-mexico-suspends-search.html

Tamaulipas state attorney general's office spokesman Ruben Dario Rios Lopez told the McAllen newspaper The Monitor that the search for David Michael Hartley was suspended Thursday so that authorities can look into new strategies to find him.

He says authorities hope to be able to resume the search for Hartley "in a few days."

A new strategy? Hmmm...they are going to need a few days to look into a new strategy and resume the search.

What could this mean?

 

[WellDone]

BBM

Here's the thing. In several interviews, TYH has exhibited no emotion, IMO, toward the group of thugs that she claims are responsible for her husband's execution (based on her statements to the media).

These are her words from one of her latest interviews:

"We just want David back," she said. "Maybe they can't provide a body, I don't know. But they can provide something of evidence, anything that would tell us where David's at. We just want him back. Give us that, and we'll go away.

IMO as you are describing the above, no emotion.... to me she exhibits shock, grief, devestation, & sorrow

"We just want David back," she said. "Maybe they can't provide a body, I don't know. But they can provide something of evidence, anything that would tell us where David's at. We just want him back. Give us that, and we'll go away."

IMO TYH is grasping at straws for ANYTHING/ANYWAY to get her husbands; body back! Realistically & sadly, what are the chances of that happening???? IMO Zilch... I think TYH knows the odds are not in favor of David's body being returned to them, but she's got to try.... I know I would pleas as well... And who knows what all propoganda from the news TYH is hearing concerning this... I myself heard a report on CNN claiming the cartel burns bodies... I'm certain she's heard various & worse stories as well, be it from LE etc.

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now. All I want is David back

We are talking about an american receiving justice in Mexico against a Mexican national/cartel.... do you really think they are too worried what the US people want at this stage in the game??? I don't... & I certainly can see absolutely why TYH would say.... "I don't want justice, I just want David back"..... I would too because the odds are they are not going to get any sort of justice in Mexico... & they will be damn lucky if they get David's body back..... Regaining David is of the utmost importance! I certainly wouldn't want to return to Mexico if I were in TYH's shoes, God Bless her.... no, I would not pursue justice either in that case - imo it's a losing battle & much too dangerous!

I am sorry for what happened to your daughter & you...your family.... Definitely I would fight for justice in that case.... & I have.... one of mine were victimized also & I did pursue it with a vengence... I have no regrets & would do it again, but not in another country..... I can honestly say that with absolute positivity.

Just a side note... have you ever lived in a foreign country???? I have & if you have then you know that right or wrong when it comes to justice you must play by their rules.... frankly, they are going to take offense if you even attempt to dictate them by US rules..... We can all "talk the talk"... but in a foreign country you'll be "walking the way they say you can walk" again.... JMO

I understand, Welldone. No need at all to feel ashamed. When people are afraid, of course they wouldn't want to put themselves at risk. I understand that.

It's tragic that this investigator was brutally murdered by these Zeta scum thugs. They make me sick. My heart goes out to his family. As far as I'm concerned, these Zetas need to be rounded up & locked away for life & then some. I have zero sympathy for them.

Here's the thing. In several interviews, TYH has exhibited no emotion, IMO, toward the group of thugs that she claims are responsible for her husband's execution (based on her statements to the media).

These are her words from one of her latest interviews:

"We just want David back," she said. "Maybe they can't provide a body, I don't know. But they can provide something of evidence, anything that would tell us where David's at. We just want him back. Give us that, and we'll go away."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-13/...ug-mexican-authorities-tamaulipas?_s=PM:CRIME

In another interview that was published Oct. 11 (when discussing the two brothers who were initially reported to be suspects in her husband's alleged murder, and then it was later reported they had no connection), TYH stated:

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now. All I want is David back.”

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/st...ithout_david_104711294.html?showFullArticle=y

I can tell you this, as the mother of a daughter who was the victim of a violent attack & attempted murder, I WANTED JUSTICE (as did my daughter).

IMO, victims WANT justice.

I find it extremely odd that TYH states that she doesn't care about justice, after claiming to have witnessed the alleged brutal murder of her beloved husband of 8 years (her high school sweetheart).

And, as I stated before, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

MOO

 

[WellDone]

BBM:

ETA: But one thing that should definitely happen, IMO, is that this case needs to be investigated from this side of the border, regardless of what TYH claims to have occurred.[/QUOTE]

That would be up to Texas & FBI then & I don't see what could even come of it??? It sure didn't help the Holloways in Aruba.

I understand, Welldone. No need at all to feel ashamed. When people are afraid, of course they wouldn't want to put themselves at risk. I understand that.

It's tragic that this investigator was brutally murdered by these Zeta scum thugs. They make me sick. My heart goes out to his family. As far as I'm concerned, these Zetas need to be rounded up & locked away for life & then some. I have zero sympathy for them.

Here's the thing. In several interviews, TYH has exhibited no emotion, IMO, toward the group of thugs that she claims are responsible for her husband's execution (based on her statements to the media).

These are her words from one of her latest interviews:

"We just want David back," she said. "Maybe they can't provide a body, I don't know. But they can provide something of evidence, anything that would tell us where David's at. We just want him back. Give us that, and we'll go away."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-13/...ug-mexican-authorities-tamaulipas?_s=PM:CRIME

In another interview that was published Oct. 11 (when discussing the two brothers who were initially reported to be suspects in her husband's alleged murder, and then it was later reported they had no connection), TYH stated:

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now. All I want is David back.”

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/st...ithout_david_104711294.html?showFullArticle=y

I can tell you this, as the mother of a daughter who was the victim of a violent attack & attempted murder, I WANTED JUSTICE (as did my daughter).

IMO, victims WANT justice.

I find it extremely odd that TYH states that she doesn't care about justice, after claiming to have witnessed the alleged brutal murder of her beloved husband of 8 years (her high school sweetheart).

And, as I stated before, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

MOO

ITA. Even though I have my own doubts about what exactly happened in this case, TYH should definitely NOT set foot in Mexico.

ETA: But one thing that should definitely happen, IMO, is that this case needs to be investigated from this side of the border, regardless of what TYH claims to have occurred.

 

[WellDone]

BBM

Nothing near as passionate as something along the lines of "these animals need to be put down" that I've read from other, uninvolved, commenters about this case.

I think TYH is handling herself as graceously as possible considering the circumstances.... just because she doesn't have a potty mouth on national tv while pleaing for any & all help to retrieve her husbands body... doesn't mean she's not passionate .... or that she's "non-emotional" considering her husband & the circumstances.

I agree with everything you've said. And here's another thing I found odd: supposedly after seeing her husband shot dead for no apparent reason, not even an attempted robbery, by these thugs, before her eyes, the worst she can muster to say about them is "they aren't compassionate to anybody" (forgetting, of course, that according to her story they had to at least have had a moment of compassion to let her live while they decided what to do with her rather than just killing her as a matter of course. But I digress.)

Nothing near as passionate as something along the lines of "these animals need to be put down" that I've read from other, uninvolved, commenters about this case.


Link: http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=525720