Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[Tuffy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-hartley-murder-2010-10

Tiffany Hartley told investigators that David Hartley was struck twice in the head and that she tried to recover her husband’s body but was forced to flee in fear for her own life.

Is this article wrong? This says he was struck twice in the head. I'm not familiar with Business Insider. Are they a legit news source?

 

[WellDone]

Thanks lone, but I'm not sure I have. :crazy:
I've looked and looked....googled and googled. I can't find a definite answer.

From what I have gathered, from what I can tell, it's not illegal to boat across to Mexican waters but it is illegal to fish there without a Mexican fishing license. Who knows.

HAHAHAHA .... You got it! Fishing is serious business all over the world!! LMAO

 

[WellDone]

what???????????? OMG.... Is this for all over???? Will they still fly from Texas into Mexico???? OMG... I am to leave in a matter of days!!! What???

Where the heck have I been???? This came out September 10, 2010 also....... http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_4755.html

Here is the link alwaysonmymind spoke of....

http://www.kens5.com/home/Cancel-your-Mexico-plans-authorities-release-travel-warning-104961924.html

Cancel your Mexico plans, authorities release travel warning
by James Munoz / KENS 5 Staff
Posted on October 14, 2010 at 12:48 PM
Updated today at 1:23 PM

Related:
Jonas Brothers cancel Mexico show due to violence
SAN ANTONIO -- Authorities released a travel warning again advising Texans to stay out of Mexico.

Texas Homeland Security Director Steve McCraw issued a travel warning stating nobody should head to Mexico at this point.

McCraw stressed the advisory due to the increased violence and threat from drug cartels.

~snip~

So a travel warning for all of Mexico?

This is from the KENS 5 new website. I'm on my phone and can't bring the link.

 

[Tuffy]

what???????????? OMG.... Is this for all over???? Will they still fly from Texas into Mexico???? OMG... I am to leave in a matter of days!!! What???

I think you can still go, if you need to during a travel advisory. They are just saying you shouldn't travel to Mexico.

But check to make sure!

 

[sorrell skye]

Please don't shoot the messenger. After all, I didn't say these things, Tiffany did.

I'm just quoting what she said in her interviews to the MSM, and have posted my own opinions/thoughts about what I've read/heard.

To recap:

October 7 (exactly a week after TYH's beloved husband of eight years was allegedly shot & killed before her eyes) TYH expresses a desire to "move on":

"And if they would just give us back his body, then we can move on."

(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010...l?utm_medium=statusnet&utm_source=twitterfeed)

Oct 11 (a week & a half after David Hartley was allegedly murdered by pirates as Tiffany Hartley, high school sweetheart & beloved wife of eight years, looked on) TYH claims that she doesn't care about justice.

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now.”

Tiffany expressed a desire early on in this case to "move on" and has stated that she doesn't "care to have justice right now."

These are her words, not mine.

I find it extremely odd that she would want to "move on" so soon, and that she would claim to have no desire for justice for the alleged brutal execution of her husband.

Again, please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[WellDone]

No shooting here... LOL

What I do find odd is that someone would not want closure - "to move on"... isn't that exactly what that means???? I'm sure the entire family would like "closure & to move on"... that's not saying forget about David &/or replace him... replacing David is not possible..... but closure is necessary in the grieving process... for TH & for all of David & TH's families.

To not want justice??? How can you not want something that isn't a realistic option to begin with???? That just doesn't make sense... TH is being realistic.... why keep fighting a losing battle??? Will it realistically make a monumental difference in the end???? Will justice be served??? Nope... so why put yourself (TH) & your family & David's family through a long drawn out drama for nothing... why drag out the pain even further??? It makes no sense to me & seems a bit saddist to do so..... JMO

BBM

Please don't shoot the messenger. After all, I didn't say these things, Tiffany did.

I'm just quoting what she said in her interviews to the MSM, and have posted my own opinions/thoughts about what I've read/heard.

To recap:

October 7 (exactly a week after TYH's beloved husband of eight years was allegedly shot & killed before her eyes) TYH expresses a desire to "move on":

"And if they would just give us back his body, then we can move on."

(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010...l?utm_medium=statusnet&utm_source=twitterfeed)

Oct 11 (a week & a half after David Hartley was allegedly murdered by pirates as Tiffany Hartley, high school sweetheart & beloved wife of eight years, looked on) TYH claims that she doesn't care about justice.

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now.”

Tiffany expressed a desire early on in this case to "move on" and has stated that she doesn't "care to have justice right now."

These are her words, not mine.

I find it extremely odd that she would want to "move on" so soon, and that she would claim to have no desire for justice for the alleged brutal execution of her husband.

Again, please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[sorrell skye]

IMO, obtaining justice is a critical component of the grieving process of victims (as I have personally experienced) as well as a critical component of moving on.

But then again, perhaps TYH has a different concept of justice and a different concept of what it means to "move on".

MOO

 

[WellDone]

I'm fairly certain TH & familys' primary focuses are

1 - find David's body so we can have a funeral for him
2 - get out of this circus/limelight so we can grieve in peace

At least that is what I would wish for...jmo

 

[Trident]

IMO, obtaining justice is a critical component of the grieving process of victims (as I have personally experienced) as well as a critical component of moving on.

But then again, perhaps TYH has a different concept of justice and a different concept of what it means to "move on".

MOO

Then again, obtaining justice from Mexican authorities against a drug cartel probably just ain't gonna happen, and the only sane alternative is to "move on".

My opinion only

 

[Melanie]

MOVE ON? Okay, sorry for yelling. But hasn't it only been a few weeks. My first thought was she wants to move on because she doesn't want the limelight on her (if, if, if she shot her husband). I'm not sure, but her blase' attitude about the killing of her husband bothers me. My hinky meter is up.

MOO

Mel

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks for the information. I've seen a multitude of posts proclaiming that the couple were there illegally and that they had no business crossing over into the Mexican side of the border. I'm glad you cleared this up. BTW, even if they had crossed illegally, that does not make it right to be shot or shot at. Not directed to you, but to the posters who post as if what happened was deserved in some way...

For myself..., No innocent person deserves to be shot and killed.

I personally have never crossed ANY country's border, whether by land, sea or air without clearing Customs and Immigration..I want our borders secure...and I in turn believe the same respect should be paid to another country's border.
David Hartley did not deserve to lose his life.

Someone posted in part 1 this thread about a U.S/Mexico "border zone", I had never heard of it before.

I have since read that tourists do not require a visa or a tourist card for stays of 72 hours or less within the border zone about 12-18 miles(20 to 30 kilometres) from the U.S. border. Practically speaking, the border zone includes the territory up to the first customs/immigration checkpoint south of the border cities.

Not that I put complete belief in what the Mexican Government said...According to the Mexicans they want to know why they Hartleys crossed illegally.
I would discourage Tiffany from going to Mexico if they are alleging an illegal crossing...

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't believe TYH is involved in DH's alleged murder, either (IF he was indeed murdered).

At this point in time, there is no concrete evidence to validate the claim that he was shot & killed. His body has not been found, his jet-ski has not been found.

As TYH herself stated (on the Today Show when interviewed by Meridith Vieira):

"Because we do have no evidence..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39542072/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/39547860

No witnesses have come forward to state they saw DH shot & killed on the lake.

I understand this is a difficult, confusing, heart-wrenching case. But, IMO, until DH's body has been found, it's only reasonable to wonder whether he is truly dead (or alive).

ETA: if DH has a life insurance policy, I have no doubt these same questions are being pondered by the insurer.

I have said before, I am still on the fence about this.
Heart-wrenching. YES.

I want David's body found as well
The obstacle is that this happened in a foreign country, namely Mexico, where Drug Cartels control the area the authorities need to search and where the US has no jurisdiction.


I do not believe in the Life Insurace policy theory...but perhaps David did have had one through his Employer as a Benefit.

 

[Joe Friday]

I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to, and I have searched. I would appreciate help from anyone who can point me toward an answer.

In the "mistaken identity" scenario, just how and where were the Zetas conducting surveillance of the Hartleys? On the Mexican side or the American side? If on the American side, by car, or...? If on the Mexican side...how?

Thanks.

Supposedly on the American side. Scouts for the drug cartel seen the Hartley's in their truck with Mexican tags on the US side and thought they were spy's for a rival drug gang.

I think the scenario of "Mistaken Identity" is just pure speculation from the "Think Tank" STRATFOR, an Austin-based think tank that focuses on the drug war and other global security issues,

They reported Wednesday that the Sept. 30 incident may have been a case of mistaken identity by the Zetas drug trafficking organization.

Remember this is from the same article: "STRATFOR said its sources reported that higher-ranking Zeta members had not green-lighted the attack and that a "damage control campaign" spearheaded by Zeta leader Miguel "Z-40" Treviño Morales is now underway to identify and eliminate those who carried out the attack."

When and if the members of Zeta drug cartel that are supposedly responsible for Davids killing are eliminated by the head of their own organization, is when I will give some credibility to what the STRATFOR "think tank" has to say about the case of mistaken identity.

Here is a video about the case from the VP of Intelligence Fred Burton from STRATFOR.

http://mediasuite.multicastmedia.com/player.php?v=i1n59l08

 

[lovelabs]

I'm on the fence as well, I really hope she is telling the truth. To me there is never closure with the loss of a loved one, and trust me I've lost a lot of them especially the past couple of years. To me there is just a big ole hole in my heart that will never be closed. And I've seen so many different ways of people handling grief and loss. I've seen some never shed a tear and 'move on' and I've seen some that have been so totally disabled by grief they'll never pick themselves back up. So it makes it hard for me to judge by her actions. IMHO

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks lone, but I'm not sure I have. :crazy:
I've looked and looked....googled and googled. I can't find a definite answer.

From what I have gathered, from what I can tell, it's not illegal to boat across to Mexican waters but it is illegal to fish there without a Mexican fishing license. Who knows.

HAHAHAHA .... You got it! Fishing is serious business all over the world!! LMAO

I agree....when DH can't get out to Fish...he watches Fishing the Flats on TV..
he constantly gets calls from relatives in Europe to get a Fishing Trip organized.

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks lone, but I'm not sure I have. :crazy:
I've looked and looked....googled and googled. I can't find a definite answer.

From what I have gathered, from what I can tell, it's not illegal to boat across to Mexican waters but it is illegal to fish there without a Mexican fishing license. Who knows.[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHA .... You got it! Fishing is serious business all over the world!! LMAO

bbm
So true...when DH can't get out to Fish...he watches Fishing the Flats on TV..
he constantly gets calls from relatives in Europe to get a Fishing Trip organized.

 

[Intermezzo]

Supposedly on the American side. Scouts for the drug cartel seen the Hartley's in their truck with Mexican tags on the US side and thought they were spy's for a rival drug gang.

I think the scenario of "Mistaken Identity" is just pure speculation from the "Think Tank" STRATFOR, an Austin-based think tank that focuses on the drug war and other global security issues,

They reported Wednesday that the Sept. 30 incident may have been a case of mistaken identity by the Zetas drug trafficking organization.

Remember this is from the same article: "STRATFOR said its sources reported that higher-ranking Zeta members had not green-lighted the attack and that a "damage control campaign" spearheaded by Zeta leader Miguel "Z-40" Treviño Morales is now underway to identify and eliminate those who carried out the attack."

When and if the members of Zeta drug cartel that are supposedly responsible for Davids killing are eliminated by the head of their own organization, is when I will give some credibility to what the STRATFOR "think tank" has to say about the case of mistaken identity.

Here is a video about the case from the VP of Intelligence Fred Burton from STRATFOR.

http://mediasuite.multicastmedia.com/player.php?v=i1n59l08

:waitasec:
Someone may have to explain it better to me, I don't get WHO 2 non-mexican looking male and female, who just recently moved to the US from Mexico, be mistaken for by Mexican drug cartels in a feud?

 

[Velouria]

Please don't shoot the messenger. After all, I didn't say these things, Tiffany did.

I'm just quoting what she said in her interviews to the MSM, and have posted my own opinions/thoughts about what I've read/heard.

To recap:

October 7 (exactly a week after TYH's beloved husband of eight years was allegedly shot & killed before her eyes) TYH expresses a desire to "move on":

"And if they would just give us back his body, then we can move on."

(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010...l?utm_medium=statusnet&utm_source=twitterfeed)

Oct 11 (a week & a half after David Hartley was allegedly murdered by pirates as Tiffany Hartley, high school sweetheart & beloved wife of eight years, looked on) TYH claims that she doesn't care about justice.

“Honestly, I don't even care to have justice right now.”

Tiffany expressed a desire early on in this case to "move on" and has stated that she doesn't "care to have justice right now."

These are her words, not mine.

I find it extremely odd that she would want to "move on" so soon, and that she would claim to have no desire for justice for the alleged brutal execution of her husband.

Again, please don't shoot the messenger.

Is it possible that Tiffany is appealing to the cartel with these statements? In effect, she could be saying "I'm not interested in putting the heat on you and your drug activities, just please give me my husband's body back."?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Looks like even Sheriff Sigi is skeptical of the mistaken identity theory:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16343913

 

[Txlurker]

I apologize the link I posted yesterday was not of Old Guerrero this is.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3SHC5oAeps"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3SHC5oAeps[/ame]