Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[monkeypants]

and would you REALLY never once say that you want justice for your murdered husband? Not ONCE??

 

[CathyinTexas]

There has been several references to David and Tiffany Hartley's facebook pages. Could someone post a link to them. I would like to read there myself.

 

[jjenny]

and would you REALLY never once say that you want justice for your murdered husband? Not ONCE??

Maybe she knows that chances of getting any sort of justice are slim to none since all of this happened in Mexico.
The fact that she goes on talk shows doesn't prove anything. We live in a voyeuristic society and crime victims/relatives of victims give interviews all the time, so she is hardly unique at giving interviews.
She hasn't been named even the person of interest in anything and so all of this innuendo doesn't amount to anything at all.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

All quotes from same article.

[snipped for space]

And here are a few more:

While police have not identified the motive in the Tijuana slayings, drug gangs have attacked such centers before to target rival gang members.

The killers left three handwritten messages with bodies, a tactic frequently employed by Mexico's drug gangs to threaten their rivals or authorities.

While the government says most of the dead were involved in the drug trade, innocent bystanders have also died...

Drug gangs have increasingly attacked private parties they believe members of rival gangs might be attending; innocent partygoers are often killed in such attacks.

So aside from the innocent bystanders, all of the victims in these attacks were, or were perceived as being, involved in the drug trade.

Tiffany has never claimed that she and David were innocent bystanders.

If we assume the Hartleys were attacked by drug cartel members, then going by these instances, the motive would seem to be that they were either involved in the drug trade or perceived as being involved in the drug trade.

Yet if it was a case of mistaken identity, why would brutal killers of this ilk give the Hartleys a friendly wave and let them take a few pictures before attacking them? Somehow I can't see the perpetrators of these other crimes being so gracious.

For clarity's sake, I am not suggesting that the Hartleys were involved in the drug trade. I am trying to understand what relevance these cases have to theirs.

 

[Tuffy]

http://news.mwza.com/news/falcon-lake-shooting-witness-backs-tiffany-hartley-pirate-chase-story/199/

According to Gonzalez, this is going to change, and Mexican officials are going to start looking into the matter.Gonzalez went on to add that an eyewitness – a man explained that he saw Tiffany Hartley which was covered with blood being chased by a small boat with several men in it.

Not a direct quote but "covered in blood" according to the Sheriff's account of what the witness saw.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/05/ijvm.01.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, WITNESS WHO HELPED TIFFANY HARTLEY: I was out in my backyard, just watering plants, when I noticed this boat out. It was a nice day. This jet ski started to come my way towards the shore, and I noticed there`s -- there was a boat behind it, but it turned around as it got closer.

The lady was, like, looking over her shoulder, and when she got close enough to speak to me to where I can hear her, she asked me if I spoke English.

I did, I nodded yes. And I said, yes. And she asked me to call -- to call authorities and possibly an ambulance, her husband`s been shot.

She didn't say anything until she was close enough to speak. Then she first asks if he speaks English? Not help, my husband has been shot, or I'm being chased? Weird...

Also, call the authorities and possibly an abulance. Possibly? Well, yeah, they guy's been shot.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/murder-lake-11828987

Witness: "Ah, I noticed this jet ski, ski in particular, coming around a island that's right off the, ah, shoreline, ah, and a boat, kind of trailing behind it. Looked like it was chasing behind."
Interviewer: "But you didn't hear any shots or see anybody shooting?"
W: "Ah .. I didn't hear any shots- (edit?)"
I:"So based on what you saw that day do you believe this woman's telling the truth?"
W: "Yes I do."

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4365418/disturbing-details-about-falcon-lake-mystery/?playlist_id=86856

"Out of the blue I see this jet ski headed towards me with, there was this boat behind it. her husband had gotten shot. That's what she blurted out, screaming . . crying, sobbing. She could see him . . . like a head, gunshot wound to the head where his brains was falling out with bood and . . .and he was gurgling like he was not breathing."

Now she is screaming, and blurting out...doesn't ask him if he speaks English?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-tiffany-hartley-joins-search-husband-allegedly-killed/story?id=11820806

"I saw the Jet Ski come around an island," the witness told "Good Morning America." "There was something wrong actually. The way I saw her come around it looked like something terribly wrong happened. I mean, she was jittery, frantic. ... She was crying, sobbing."

As a safety precaution, the witness spoke in shadow and with voice alteration to avoid identification because he said he feared for his life.

Does anyone have any idea where the island is? Where was the witness standing that he saw both the boat, and the jet ski, and the expression on her face?

 

[Tuffy]

Maybe she knows that chances of getting any sort of justice are slim to none since all of this happened in Mexico.
The fact that she goes on talk shows doesn't prove anything. We live in a voyeuristic society and crime victims/relatives of victims give interviews all the time, so she is hardly unique at giving interviews.
She hasn't been named even the person of interest in anything and so all of this innuendo doesn't amount to anything at all.

Just because the chances of actually getting justice are slim, doesn't mean that a victim wouldn't want it. It might mean the person might even be more vocal about seeking justice for their loved one who was killed.

I respectfully disagree jjenny, that it doesn't amount to anything at all. I think the mounting discrepencies, and questions amount to a lot, and should be investigated.

 

[jjenny]

Just because the chances of actually getting justice are slim, doesn't mean that a victim wouldn't want it. It might mean the person might even be more vocal about seeking justice for their loved one who was killed.

I respectfully disagree jjenny, that it doesn't amount to anything at all. I think the mounting discrepencies, and questions amount to a lot, and should be investigated.

It amounts to nothing. I've seen no evidence to prove that she was involved in the murder. She is a small girl, so what could she possibly do with a jet ski and the body? She couldn't hide either. And we know her, her husband and both of their jet ski are on video going to that lake.

 

[Tuffy]

There has been several references to David and Tiffany Hartley's facebook pages. Could someone post a link to them. I would like to read there myself.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=643032226&ref=ts This is Tiffany's, and David is a friend.

 

[Tuffy]

It amounts to nothing. I've seen no evidence to prove that she was involved in the murder. She is a small girl, so what could she possibly do with a jet ski and the body? She couldn't hide either. And we know her, her husband and both of their jet ski are on video going to that lake.

We do have the video of them going to the lake with their jet skis, yes. That is not evidence that he was killed by teenage Mexican pirates on the lake later though.

 

[Waddles]

All this TV has gone to her head methinks and she's trying to get our minds off the changing stories in the murder of her husband and focus on the real big issue of borders... hmmm the real big issue is where's David??

 

[Waddles]

There has been several references to David and Tiffany Hartley's facebook pages. Could someone post a link to them. I would like to read there myself.

go on FB and then in the search box enter "tiffany young hartley" and then it says married to david hartley that way you get access to both

 

[Waddles]

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=643032226&ref=ts This is Tiffany's, and David is a friend.

oh sorry didn't see this!

 

[IzzyBlanche]

We do have the video of them going to the lake with their jet skis, yes. That is not evidence that he was killed by teenage Mexican pirates on the lake later though.

In fact, as far as I know, we have no evidence besides Tiffany's word that David was ever on the lake that day. I've heard of no witnesses saying they saw him, just her.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

In fact, as far as I know, we have no evidence besides Tiffany's word that David was ever on the lake that day. I've heard of no witnesses saying they saw him, just her.

WE have no evidence either way.

 

[monkeypants]

just out of curiousity for those that believe tiffany is truthful...what is the motive for the pirates to have attacked from such a long distance? If it was to take the jet skis why only take one <if that is what happened to david's ski in theory>

Pirates attack to rob and steal...not just because they feel like it.
Can't be mistaken identity since they were both blatantly caucasian people.

Why did they allow Tiffany to live after murdering her husband? She obviously saw their faces and could ID their vessles...why spare her? Why not kill her and take her ski as well? and her jewlery?

I am just curious on what the thought process for this attack is for the believers cuz I just can't wrap my arms around it.

What is the motive? ( I can come up with quite a few for her involvement but none for the pirates since there was no robbery and they left a witness to a fast paced chase with bullet fire-even though not one of them hit her jet ski but were able to hit david dead in the head while on a jet ski moving all over the water at 60 mph when their boats weren't as fast according to tiffany)

 

[monkeypants]

just throwing out there that this couple lived in mexico for 3 years....they knew plenty of people there...so there is nothing to say that parts of her story are correct

they could have been in the lake on jet skis
there could have been boats (3 is a liars bumber and I highly doubt that there were 3 boats of pirates lol...)
and the body and jet ski may have disappeared....


HOWEVER....tiffany could have planned the disappearance with people she knew on the mexican side to take both his body and his jet ski....why not? why can't she have tried to have him killed....

of course....she consistently states she tried to get david BACK on HER jet ski...why is that? When was he on it in the first place?? Perhaps there was only one jet ski on the lake that day......

also...if you are trying to lift your husbands body out of the water and trying and trying...there would be blood all over you...face, hands...ski....clothing....not a single drop that has been reported to be on her safety vest. The water itself would be red from blood....his body had a safety vest on so it wasn't sinking....and the jet ski would have been most likely sitting with the motor running or if not then it would have been stopped right next to him....(of course how a man that weighs well over 200lbs goes up and OVER his jet ski is a mystery to me...his hands would have let go and he would have fallen over, not up and over with such incredible force)

 

[Tuffy]

just out of curiousity for those that believe tiffany is truthful...what is the motive for the pirates to have attacked from such a long distance? If it was to take the jet skis why only take one <if that is what happened to david's ski in theory>

Pirates attack to rob and steal...not just because they feel like it.
Can't be mistaken identity since they were both blatantly caucasian people.

Why did they allow Tiffany to live after murdering her husband? She obviously saw their faces and could ID their vessles...why spare her? Why not kill her and take her ski as well? and her jewlery?

I am just curious on what the thought process for this attack is for the believers cuz I just can't wrap my arms around it.

What is the motive? ( I can come up with quite a few for her involvement but none for the pirates since there was no robbery and they left a witness to a fast paced chase with bullet fire-even though not one of them hit her jet ski but were able to hit david dead in the head while on a jet ski moving all over the water at 60 mph when their boats weren't as fast according to tiffany)

Just a nitpick, jdj, I believe Tiffany said they did not take their jewelry with them.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/video/?videoId=632799582001&lineupId=1184677040

We didn't wear wedding rings that day because we might lose it.

So, I was thankful that he had it at home, so I could have it.

 

[Tuffy]

just throwing out there that this couple lived in mexico for 3 years....they knew plenty of people there...so there is nothing to say that parts of her story are correct

they could have been in the lake on jet skis
there could have been boats (3 is a liars bumber and I highly doubt that there were 3 boats of pirates lol...)
and the body and jet ski may have disappeared....


HOWEVER....tiffany could have planned the disappearance with people she knew on the mexican side to take both his body and his jet ski....why not? why can't she have tried to have him killed....

of course....she consistently states she tried to get david BACK on HER jet ski...why is that? When was he on it in the first place?? Perhaps there was only one jet ski on the lake that day......

also...if you are trying to lift your husbands body out of the water and trying and trying...there would be blood all over you...face, hands...ski....clothing....not a single drop that has been reported to be on her safety vest. The water itself would be red from blood....his body had a safety vest on so it wasn't sinking....and the jet ski would have been most likely sitting with the motor running or if not then it would have been stopped right next to him....(of course how a man that weighs well over 200lbs goes up and OVER his jet ski is a mystery to me...his hands would have let go and he would have fallen over, not up and over with such incredible force)

It also wouldn't make sense for some teenagers to drag a body and a jetski away, or to sink the body and jetski, would it? Maybe some regualar jetskiers can help me out, but I thought that a jet ski would be next to impossible to sink. So if he was shot on the water, he would have had to be taken to shore (along with his jet ski.) Right?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

WE have no evidence either way.

True. Just as we have no way of knowing whether Tiffany is a suspect or POI or not.

ETA: However, you'd think that if such a witness existed, Tiffany would be pointing to him/her incessantly as further evidence that her "story" is true.

 

[Intermezzo]

All quotes from same article.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39828239/ns/world_news-americas

Witness: 13 slain at rehab center in border city

By MARIANA MARTINEZ
Associated Press

From what I have read the drug cartel regularly terrorize, to the point of killing, Mexican citizens.

My first thought was why?
I think the article answered that for me..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39828239/ns/world_news-americas

"The attack on the ramshackle, privately run center is the first such mass killing at a rehab center in Tijuana, a city praised by some for its anti-gang efforts.

Several such attacks have killed dozens of recovering addicts in another border city, Ciudad Juarez, and a voice was heard over a police radio frequency later saying "this is a taste of Juarez."