Found Deceased MI - Dr. Teleka Patrick, 30, Kalamazoo, 5 Dec 2013 - #14

[vlpate]

I believe someone said 3 feet and it drops off to the deeper part a few feet out.

So if she "fell" into the pond/lake w/e, and it's only 3' deep.....seems like she would have just stood up and walked out.

 

[MamaJoJo]

So if she "fell" into the pond/lake w/e, and it's only 3' deep.....seems like she would have just stood up and walked out.

Not if it was super muddy and her feet got stuck, not if she was delusional and couldn't figure our which way was up, not if she had taken in a bunch of muddy water into her lungs, IMO. One can drown in 3" of water depending on the circumstances..

 

[vlpate]

Not if it was super muddy and her feet got stuck, not if she was delusional and couldn't figure our which way was up, not if she had taken in a bunch of muddy water into her lungs, IMO. One can drown in 3" of water depending on the circumstances..

You're right...depending on how far out it dropped off to 20' and how disoriented she became. I wonder if she had a fear of water.

I'm terrified of any but pool water. I always hear jaws music when I can't see my body under dark water...I would have been petrified.

 

[tlcya]

Indiana State Police scuba teams pulled the female body, which was dressed in dark clothing, from the south side of Lake Charles after a local fisherman reported seeing something floating in the water, the state police said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...chigan-doctor-article-1.1748155#ixzz2ynqYDL67

Porter County …. Lake Charles Park (small pond)
Washington & Vine Streets
Ramp – No, Shoreline fishing – Yes
Largemouth Bass, Bluegill / Redear

http://www.amflyfishing.com/articles/124-local-fishing-locations.html

Could not locate historical data on weather for December 5th 2013 in Porter IN. Here is the data for temps/precip in Valparaiso, which is about 10 miles away

Weather History for Valparaiso, IN
Thursday, December 5, 2013 — View Current Weather Conditions
Thursday, December 5, 2013
« Previous Day

Next Day »
DailyWeeklyMonthlyCustom
Actual Average Record
Temperature
Mean Temperature 34 °F 32 °F
Max Temperature 46 °F 38 °F 69 °F (2001)
Min Temperature 22 °F 25 °F 7 °F (2008)

Precipitation
Precipitation 0.00 in 0.09 in 1.26 in (1999)
Month to date precipitation 0.07 0.44
Year to date precipitation 34.62 35.77

http://www.wunderground.com/history...ity=Porter&req_state=IN&req_statename=Indiana

https://www.google.com/maps?t=m&sll...,0.1757967&q=Porter,+IN&output=classic&dg=opt

If Dr. Patrick was delusional, in the throes of a mental breakdown, worried she was being followed/chased, driving erratically, and then running off to hide/get away from activity/attention near her car, stumbled into the pond, why assume she would just get up and get out?

ponds are muddy, mucky, full of branches and slimy water weedy stuff beneath the surface. Particularly near the shore line where all that muck tends to float up to land near shore.

Why go to the hotel? Why duck behind cars in the parking garage at the hospital? Why drive off out of town on an unscheduled trip in the middle of the night when you have to work again soon? Why drive erratically down 94? Why leave the car when you suffer a flat tire? Why avoid the LEOs who were reportedly at the car not long after it being spotted on the side of 94?

The why's in this case are many and IMO can all be answered with one thing. Delusional. Psychotic break with reality. Someone not in their right mind will do things that do not make sense. Maybe when she fell into the pond she got tangled up in muck, weeds and branches/deadfall beneath the surface of the water. Maybe her clothing and coat once saturated weighted her down. Maybe wet and cold she could not get herself out of whatever she was tangled in. Maybe she suffered hypothermia.

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

So if she "fell" into the pond/lake w/e, and it's only 3' deep.....seems like she would have just stood up and walked out.

So the perimeter of the lake is only 3 feet? That seems a bit shallow. Teleka was 5'7 or 5'8 right?

It's hard to imagine her falling into the lake and not being in the position of standing up. But maybe she was just that mentally sick that she was not able to stand up in such a shallow depth of water.

I really did not know this. This detail is a bit mind blowing to me. I think you may be right again Cherry.

 

[KRIME KING]

People make worse videos every day and send them to potential love interests. At least Dr. Patrick's were tame. She kept her clothes on and cooked him dinner. She sang to him. I see a woman trying to entice a man with food and song. Probably what her parents would see, too.

I heard somwhere that she sent pics to him, probably not with all her clothes on.....its obvious, there was something wrong....this lady was going to be a psychiatrist, what she was doing was not normal...it was easy to see.

 

[KRIME KING]

Does anyone know if the perimeter of the lake is 3' the whole way around?

 

[MHOrgel]

Your right to grief ends where another's right to live their life unmolested by unsubstantiated accusations begins.

The family says Teleka was "snuffed out" and their hired gun is pointing the finger directly at MS.

I am losing sympathy for TP's family every day. Losing a child is no excuse for ruining an innocent person's life. JMO MOO



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

If Dr. Patrick was delusional, in the throes of a mental breakdown, worried she was being followed/chased, driving erratically, and then running off to hide/get away from activity/attention near her car, stumbled into the pond, why assume she would just get up and get out?

The why's in this case are many and IMO can all be answered with one thing. Delusional. Psychotic break with reality. Someone not in their right mind will do things that do not make sense. Maybe when she fell into the pond she got tangled up in muck, weeds and branches/deadfall beneath the surface of the water. Maybe her clothing and coat once saturated weighted her down. Maybe wet and cold she could not get herself out of whatever she was tangled in. Maybe she suffered hypothermia.

RSBM: You make a good point about assuming that Teleka would be able to stand up.

This tiny detail makes me think less about any sort of physical barrier like the ones you've mentioned and more like a purely psychological barrier.

3 feet of water? Poor darling.

 

[tlcya]

I have looked and looked and have been unable to find any info that is linkable and reliable as to the depths and underwater topography of Lake Charles. It is not a Lake per se, it is actually a pond but is contained within an area called Lake Charles Park which is why it is referred to as a lake. But to visualize it you really have to consider it as a pond.

If anyone finds any sort of DNR or GOV type info on the actual depths and topography of the area under the surface of the pond please do link and even if you could be so kind as to pm or visitor msg me I would really appreciate it.

 

[vlpate]

If Dr. Patrick was delusional, in the throes of a mental breakdown, worried she was being followed/chased, driving erratically, and then running off to hide/get away from activity/attention near her car, stumbled into the pond, why assume she would just get up and get out?

ponds are muddy, mucky, full of branches and slimy water weedy stuff beneath the surface. Particularly near the shore line where all that muck tends to float up to land near shore.

(The following added here for focus and is out of sequence with authors original post)The why's in this case are many and IMO can all be answered with one thing. Delusional. Psychotic break with reality. Someone not in their right mind will do things that do not make sense. Maybe when she fell into the pond she got tangled up in muck, weeds and branches/deadfall beneath the surface of the water. Maybe her clothing and coat once saturated weighted her down. Maybe wet and cold she could not get herself out of whatever she was tangled in. Maybe she suffered hypothermia.

If she was in fear for her life, then I would have to assume if she were in immediate danger of drowning, she would try and save herself. Going by there being all the dead limbs, muck, branches, etc., I would imagine her first thought would be to remove whatever clothing was tangled and stopping her from freeing herself to get out of the water. People were saying early on she might have run over a steep drop-off. Either way, it seems the autopsies would have noted further injuries from a struggle to save herself.

I'm thinking out loud and looking for answers - because I've never been to that pond, I can't get a good feel for what it would be like to accidentally end up in the water/mud/muck. I also haven't seen a detailed copy of either of the autopsies - how badly decomposed was her body? Was her clothing torn?

Why go to the hotel? Why duck behind cars in the parking garage at the hospital? Why drive off out of town on an unscheduled trip in the middle of the night when you have to work again soon? Why drive erratically down 94? Why leave the car when you suffer a flat tire? Why avoid the LEOs who were reportedly at the car not long after it being spotted on the side of 94?

No one knows the answers to those questions, or if they are even important, but Teleka. How does anyone know what she had planned that night? All speculation based on her 'perceived' behavior. Everyone saying she was acting strangely at the hotel sort of baffles me because I didn't detect anything strange at all. She was asking for information and seemed perfectly normal when the employee left her there for a few minutes - she was flipping through brochures and never once did she look behind her or to either side. Not even when someone passed behind her in the lobby. Whatever she was, she was NOT someone scared or running for her life in the hotel lobby. As for "ducking behind cars ... maybe she didn't want her boss to see her leaving to go to the hotel...maybe that's why she left her things behind...to make other employees think she was still there but somewhere in the hospital. She wouldn't have wanted them to see her in the parking garage.

All the tweets that were gone over with a fine-toothed comb were tweets she deleted...she obviously knew they would be embarrassing if found...knew right from wrong when she deleted them. Is there any evidence of her addressing her tweets and the videos specifically to MS? I stopped reading them almost immediately because I thought about how mortified she would be, if found alive, to know they had been discovered, dissected, and served up as a tool for amateur psychoanalysts to diagnose her with mental illness, without ever laying eyes on her or interacting with her in real life and time.

Tweets that she had deleted will forever be part of her history online. Doctor or not...if found alive, she would be irreparably tarnished....even if she were mentally ill and successfully received treatment.

You could be right, I haven't a clue how she got into the water and she may well have fallen in and drowned....but her parents are not taking that for an answer, so the "simply drowned" conclusion is not the end of this young woman's story, at least not to them. IMO

ETA...as far as her tweets go now....IMO they will become very important depending on which way the family goes in any further investigation.

 

[rizzo0904]

Wow, I've been dealing with my husbands lung surgery and haven't been on in a while. This isn't what I was expecting to see today.

RIP Teleka.

 

[tlcya]

Teleka Patrick’s ex-husband, Ismael Calderon, said Wednesday he was saddened and in a state of shock to hear investigators had confirmed it was Patrick’s body discovered Sunday in Lake Charles in Porter

He finds it particularly difficult to understand how and why she ended up in the lake and was unable to get out. She knew how to swim, he said, because they often went swimming while they lived in Corona, Calif.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/26743371-418/ex-husband-says-patricks-death-a-tragedy.html I had missed this one - so we know she could swim

Crepps said he fishes almost every day, but had not fished in Lake Charles since last year. He was out at 7 a.m. Sunday, hoping to catch some bluegill.

“I started casting and then I looked over and I seen something that wasn’t right,” he said. “I just went over there, walked around, noticed it was what I thought it was.”

The body was face down in shallow water. He saw no obvious sign of injury.

“She’s probably 15 to 20 feet out, out in the water,” he said. “I just feel bad that I had to find her this way.”

He said he waded into the lake to make sure of what he had found. Then he called the local police department.

http://woodtv.com/2014/04/07/fisherman-hoping-for-closure-for-patricks-family/

 

[vlpate]

I'm very. Saddened to hear that she was found in lake Charles and wonder if hypothermia set in or if she shed any clothing but she had her coat on. WTH could Hv caused her to go into that lake unless we look at possible suicide considering all the facts that just came out she knew. Her case went viral videos were out stalking charges so I'm extremely surprised this wasn't ruled a suicide. Profiling all of the facts led me to suicide. Now that we knw where she ended up. How far of a walk is it frm her car to the lake please?

Suicide? So is it the posts contention that she knew that pond was there and drove like a bat out of Hades to get to it and drown herself?

 

[vlpate]

Teleka Patrick’s ex-husband, Ismael Calderon, said Wednesday he was saddened and in a state of shock to hear investigators had confirmed it was Patrick’s body discovered Sunday in Lake Charles in Porter

He finds it particularly difficult to understand how and why she ended up in the lake and was unable to get out. She knew how to swim, he said, because they often went swimming while they lived in Corona, Calif.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/26743371-418/ex-husband-says-patricks-death-a-tragedy.html I had missed this one - so we know she could swim

I'm going to have to question this statement by her ex. I was chastised severely by three AA women who were part of my staff when I suggested a company pool party one year a few years back. I got the rundown on why AA women do NOT swim...they were not vague, they were very specific...there is too much money, time, and effort that goes into maintaining their hair to ruin it with water. She could have used a swim cap...but for some reason even that was not an option for the aforementioned AA females. Teleka had beautiful hair.

Sounds to me ...IMO... like the family is going to go full steam ahead for "justice for Teleka". Mind you, I have my doubts too...I'm having a hard time with the "accident" scenario...there hasn't been one that 100% convinces me she "accidentally" found a body of water in the middle of nowhere and drowned in it. JMO

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

Vlpate, You've made some great points! I agree that while she was talking to the clerks, she seemed very calm. So much so, that she never looked at anyone who even walked by. Not even once or a quick glance.

Teleka leaving her things behind always gave me the impression that she wanted someone at her job to feel she would be returning.

As to the deleted tweets, Teleka was also very careful not to call MS by his name as well. Even on the videos. She always said "baby". I think she was keenly aware of getting into possible trouble with the law.

This is why I cannot see Teleka not having a very real idea of how being the recipient of restraining order (and a likely renewal of it) would hurt of career. Stalking is against the law.

I have a hard time of believing that Teleka did not understand gravity of the restraining order. Even with a mental illness.

 

[SwampMama]

Not if it was super muddy and her feet got stuck, not if she was delusional and couldn't figure our which way was up, not if she had taken in a bunch of muddy water into her lungs, IMO. One can drown in 3" of water depending on the circumstances..

My BIL was just in a bad wreck, his truck hit an 18wheeler and then went off the road into a ditch and flipped. his body was pinned under the truck and was drowning in the few inches of water. Luckily an EMT was in the car ahead of him, saw it and went and held his head out of the water and mud. Even so, with help that quick, he was so bad off in the ER that they called the family in to say goodbye he was in such dire condition. Weeks later he is still in CCU, with a trach. His lungs were just full of that water and muck (No broken bones or internal injuries) that the he was expected to die. It happens that quick, in water that shallow.

I am wondering if Teleka was watching the police as they came upon her car, hiding, afraid of being arrested. She could have fallen or gone in the water out of fear, or in the midst of fleeing whatever she thought was after her. People in such a state may not percieve physical sensations (such as icy cold water) as someone who is clearly thinking might. Within minutes that water could have caused hypothermia and the inevitable.

Water temperature: 32 degrees or below
Time until exhaustion or unconsciousness: Less than 15 minutes
Expected time of survival in the water: Less than 15 to 45 minutes

Water temperature: 32.5 to 40 degrees
Time until exhaustion or unconsciousness: 15 to 30 minutes
Expected time of survival in the water: 30 to 90 minutes

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/37639264.html

She was already in a highly stressed state, possibly exhausted from lack of sleep and worry. She may have been in the water, waiting for the cops, etc to leave the scene to emerge and by then it was too late.

 

[tlcya]

It is approximately 50 yards from the area her car was found to the lake.

Authorities believe Patrick drove for about two hours to Porter, got a flat tire and left the car along the highway. She then became lost, Fuller said, and accidentally wandered into the lake.

“(She) was found at that point five months and a day, to the day, in that same location, with no indications of any trauma. No indications of anything other than a possible accidental drowning,” Fuller said.

Foul play is not suspected, Fuller said. Officials are still waiting on toxicology results, but Fuller said they don’t believe the results will reveal anything new.

A fisherman spotted Patrick’s body in the lake Sunday morning. Badly decomposed, it needed to be identified via either fingerprints or dental records, Porter County Coroner Chuck Harris told 24 Hour News 8 on Sunday.

Car keys, a pager and $100 a co-worker gave her on Dec. 5 were also recovered at the lake, according to Fuller.

Lake Charles is about 50 yards from busy I-94, separated by a barbed wire fence.

“Back in December when this took place, there were more things between you and the lake. Again, it was at night. It may look like an open field when you’re walking to that area. But if you’re not familiar with the area, you could end up falling into the lake,” Fuller said.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04...-patrick-body-found-lake-foul-play-suspected/

This is the thing that gest me and why I find it easy to accept that she accidentally drowned. Seasoned law enforcement professional with no dog in this fight other than to try and solve a case believes it is perfectly possible and understandable that a young woman unfamiliar with the area could accidentally fall into the lake at night in a time of reduced visibility and drown.

As vlpate mentions in her post above, she is not familiar with the area. I am also unfamiliar with this small lake/large pond. But the local police chief most certainly is.

So while I understand that the story is not over for Teleka and what happened to her, they are in denial. It is a perfectly understandable stage of grief. They need someone to blame and with their strong faith and their belive structure they cannot accept mental illness, that leaves blaming God, Teleka herself, or some nefarious character. It makes total sense which they are opting to blame. I get it. Doesn't make it right but I get it.

But for me. This case is closed. I believe the local police on this matter as I see no reason for them to participate in any coverup on anyone else's behalf.

Unsubscribing now. Time for me at least to do what I can to honor this young woman and let her rest in peace, wrapped in the loving arms of her Father. It is all I can do for her at this point. Drop it and let this case go. Case closed.

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

Suicide? So is it the posts contention that she knew that pond was there and drove like a bat out of Hades to get to it and drown herself?

There are some people who thought she went to the hotel to commit suicide. I really don't think so.

I do find it very, very coincidental that she would drive all the way to where she did, and just so happened pulled over to where she could access a pond where she drowned (even though she could swim).

 

[SwampMama]

How long can a person survive in water that is 41 degrees F like the Hudson was when the plane went down?

When you first go into extremely cold water there is this weird response called a cold shock response. People start to hyperventilate immediately. For one to three minutes you breathe very fast and deep, uncontrollably. If you go underwater, you could swallow water and die. …I can't tell you how often this occurs but it's certainly a very real phenomenon. Once that response goes away, you're fine…for awhile.

Generally, a person can survive in 41-degree F (5-degree C) water for 10, 15 or 20 minutes before the muscles get weak, you lose coordination and strength, which happens because the blood moves away from the extremities and toward the center, or core, of the body.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/airplane-1549-hudson-hypothermia/