MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Chimera]

OMG - that's a brick wall!

jmopinion

Yes, I was thinking the same !

Holy crapola this is so sad.
Wonder what the motive was ?

Michigan church death toll doubles after Iraq war veteran opened fire

Police said a 40-year-old man opened fire on hundreds of people who had gathered for a service at the Church of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc on Sunday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The suspect has been named by the New York Post as Iraq War veteran Thomas Jacob Sanford, but this has not been confirmed by police.

According to Facebook, Sanford has a wife and kids, and he served in Iraq from 2004 until 2009.
Renye told a press conference that police and FBI detectives are 'still determining how the fire started' but they believe it was 'deliberately set by the suspect'.
'We do believe we will find additional victims once the scene has been secured,' Renye added, implying that police believe some congregants burned alive.

How cowardly to attack any place of worship where most people aren't going to have armed security, and most likely little-- if any --protection. Basically sitting ducks.
Imo.

 

[Chimera]

IED’s were found in his truck at the scene.

I'm wondering if he brought more of them inside the church and detonated them ?
That fire was huge for being started by just one person.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Thanks for the video link , @Knox !

At about 2:17 the reporter asks if there was security at the church and she said 'no'.

They were essentially helpless ... but should have had an expectation of safety in a place of worship !!
No one could have foreseen what evil the perp was going to commit.
My .02.

 

[Barbb]

Thomas Jacob Sanford is the shooter.

Hero cops responded to Grand Blanc LDS church shooting in 30 seconds, killed gunman Thomas Sanford within 8 minutes

Local police responding to the mass shooting at Michigan Latter-day Saints church Sunday morning were on the scene in just 30 seconds, and killed the gunman within minutes.

nypost.com

 

[Inthedetails]

Grand Blanc Community Schools (GBCS) will be closed on Monday, Sept. 29, following a shooting and fire at a Mormon church.

Grand Blanc Community Schools to close following Mormon church shooting

LANSING, Mich. (WLNS) — Grand Blanc Community Schools (GBCS) will be closed on Monday, Sept. 29, following a shooting and fire at a Mormon church. GBCS announced the closure in a Facebook post. The Grand Blanc Township Police Department confirmed that two victims and the suspect are dead, and 8...

www.yahoo.com

 

[whitelilac]

They are inside the church now. God forbid there are more victims....

"From CNN's Josh Campbell
Evidence technicians are inside the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc Township, Michigan, and are processing the scene after the large fire following today’s shooting was extinguished, a law enforcement source told CNN.

Authorities are currently working to determine whether additional victims may be inside after this morning’s deadly attack."

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?t=1759096030363

 

[Chimera]

I cannot recall someone deliberately starting a massive fire like this in a building full of people, except on 9/11/2001. It takes some effort and planning to start such an inferno, IMO.

Ita.
What in the world did the perp use ?
Looks like someone poured hundred of gallons of gasoline and lit a match.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

In many buildings built across the US, brick facades are just a single width of brick (aka wythe, roughly 4" deep) attached to other materials behind the facade, such as steel studs or wood studs. If this type of construction was used for the church, the truck could easily breach the wall, although falling brick could injure the driver. In more substantial, but costlier buildings, the brick would be attached to concrete masonry or would be constructed of interlocked brick over a foot thick.

No way to tell unless the wreckage of the building is clearly visible, so JMO

Pbm.
I'm thinking prob. the bolded was the construction type ?
It looks like a section of drywall collapsed diagonally, to the right of the truck ?

Here's a pic of the damage at the link :

Michigan church death toll doubles after Iraq war veteran opened fire

Police said a 40-year-old man opened fire on hundreds of people who had gathered for a service at the Church of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc on Sunday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Eli9]

I cannot recall someone deliberately starting a massive fire like this in a building full of people, except on 9/11/2001. It takes some effort and planning to start such an inferno, IMO.

One of the reporters asked the Chief of police about that during the initial press conference. The question was that obviously LE prepares and trains for active shooters but do they train for active shooters during a fire event? It's haunted me all day. LE was heroically brave to encounter not only an active shooter but also a fire. My DH is now retired LE but taught active shooter for a decade across the US (before it had become so commonplace), testified in front of Congress and trust me fires were never in the equation.
I'm in disbelief about today's tragic event and mourn for the entire country.

 

[iamshadow21]

Okay, your local friendly ex-LDS stopping in to give you a primer on church architecture.

This is a church, not a temple. Temples are big important buildings for specific rites. Only certain people can go there. A church is where everyone meets for weekly services and church related activities, like youth groups.

LDS churches are a bit like McDonald's. There's some variation based on age and location, but not much. That wall he hit, I am almost 100% certain is the wall of the chapel. The chapel is the holiest part of a church. It's the room you have your weekly services in. Talks by members, sacrament, prayers and hymns. That wall is probably directly behind the pulpit.

I suspect this killer had knowledge of where people would be and when. The sacrament meeting when everyone is in the chapel is the one time everyone is in the one place. If he'd hit there when Sunday school was happening, everyone would have been spread out in seperate rooms divided by age and gender and the chapel probably would have been empty, except for maybe a few young men cleaning up after sacrament.

The church would have been crammed today, btw, even with only sometimes attendees, because of the death of the prophet yesterday.

MOO

 

[TMich6811]

Okay, your local friendly ex-LDS stopping in to give you a primer on church architecture.

This is a church, not a temple. Temples are big important buildings for specific rites. Only certain people can go there. A church is where everyone meets for weekly services and church related activities, like youth groups.

LDS churches are a bit like McDonald's. There's some variation based on age and location, but not much. That wall he hit, I am almost 100% certain is the wall of the chapel. The chapel is the holiest part of a church. It's the room you have your weekly services in. That wall is probably directly behind the pulpit.

I suspect this killer had knowledge of where people would be and when. The service when everyone is in the chapel is the one time everyone is in the one place. If he'd hit there when Sunday school was happening, everyone would have been spread out in seperate rooms divided by age and gender and the chapel probably would have been empty, except for maybe a few young men cleaning up after sacrament.

MOO

I am localish and the local word is that this happened at the time that they would have been transitioning from formal church to the separation of adults and kids into classes. Is that a thing? <modsnip> If so and if timed accurately, it would have been when kids and families were separating

 

[justtrish]

One of the reporters asked the Chief of police about that during the initial press conference. The question was that obviously LE prepares and trains for active shooters but do they train for active shooters during a fire event? It's haunted me all day. LE was heroically brave to encounter not only an active shooter but also a fire. My DH is now retired LE but taught active shooter for a decade across the US (before it had become so commonplace), testified in front of Congress and trust me fires were never in the equation.
I'm in disbelief about today's tragic event and mourn for the entire country.

It's just awful to think LE arrived in less than 1 minute and THIS isn't something they can really prepare for. Someone shooting, setting fire, AND having IED's. I mean come on, LE can prepare for many things, but sometimes the evil just surpasses anything that can be planned for or anticipated. This is unthinkable.

 

[Inthedetails]

It's just awful to think LE arrived in less than 1 minute and THIS isn't something they can really prepare for. Someone shooting, setting fire, AND having IED's. I mean come on, LE can prepare for many things, but sometimes the evil just surpasses anything that can be planned for or anticipated. This is unthinkable.

This seems like warfare, with tactics beyond active-shooter behavior.

jmopinion

 

[airportwoman]

Russell M. Nelson, oldest-ever president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, dies

Russell M. Nelson, the oldest-ever president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has died at the age of 101.

apnews.com

Interesting timing

I think this is TOTALLY connected. The death of the Mormon president is, to them, comparable to the death of the Pope to Catholics.

 

[iamshadow21]

I am localish and the local word is that this happened at the time that they would have been transitioning from formal church to the separation of adults and kids into classes. Is that a thing? <modsnip> If so and if timed accurately, it would have been when kids and families were separating

Yeah, the sunday stuff has two parts. Sacrament meeting in the chapel, which is very similar to a typical generic Christian service, and the Sunday school part. It takes two hours all up. This is a recent change - when I was a child, it was three hours and three different activities.

The Sunday school part, adult men and adult women each have their own classes. Children three and up to eleven(I think?) have Primary, which is foundational religious concepts for their age group, and young men and young women have their own classes. When I was a kid, there was also essentially a scripture study class where teens were mixed together. They shifted to shorter services and encouraged families to do the scripture study bit at home together, I believe, from what my mum has told me. She and our housemate are both active LDS. They listen to scripture in the morning and discuss it together before going to work.

But yeah, at the beginning, the end, and between activities, there's always at least ten minutes of chatter and chaos where everyone is moving in different directions and talking to each other while they move about the building. Think the crush and movement between classes at a school, when everyone is in the hallways at once and then it's empty and still again when people have found where they need to be.

MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I am localish and the local word is that this happened at the time that they would have been transitioning from formal church to the separation of adults and kids into classes. Is that a thing? <modsnip> If so and if timed accurately, it would have been when kids and families were separating

My daughter had an elementary/middle school friend whose family were members of the Church of Latter Day Saints in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. DD's friend talked about the classes that she attended while her parents were in a church service. I haven't read or heard anything yet about there being children's classes in Grand Blanc while the worship service was taking place.

 

[airportwoman]

I cannot recall someone deliberately starting a massive fire like this in a building full of people, except on 9/11/2001. It takes some effort and planning to start such an inferno, IMO.

I thought of this story from 2008. The marriage had lasted about a year, and they had no children together, which made this all the more horrifying!

Covina massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was also the Bath Massacre, also in Michigan, in 1927.

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Inthedetails]

Yeah, the sunday stuff has two parts. Sacrament meeting in the chapel, which is very similar to a typical generic Christian service, and the Sunday school part. It takes two hours all up. This is a recent change - when I was a child, it was three hours and three different activities.

The Sunday school part, adult men and adult women each have their own classes. Children three and up to eleven(I think?) have Primary, which is foundational religious concepts for their age group, and young men and young women have their own classes. When I was a kid, there was also essentially a scripture study class where teens were mixed together. They shifted to shorter services and encouraged families to do the scripture study bit at home together, I believe, from what my mum has told me. She and our housemate are both active LDS. They listen to scripture in the morning and discuss it together before going to work.

But yeah, at the beginning, the end, and between activities, there's always at least ten minutes of chatter and chaos where everyone is moving in different directions and talking to each other while they move about the building. Think the crush and movement between classes at a school, when everyone is in the hallways at once and then it's empty and still again when people have found where they need to be.

MOO

The logistics are interesting to learn, but I'm wondering if he really needed to know specific happenings inside the building. It's common knowledge that people gather in churches on Sunday morninrg, ykwim? Or, he could check what time services start and then literally barge in once service was underway and know he would be hurting many people no matter what they were doing at the time.

I am curious if he targeted this church specifically, this faith specifically, a house of worship in general, or simply a large gathering of people that would be easy targets for him.

jmopinion

 

[nao]

Moo...maybe he saw the news of the other war veteran shooting up the fish bar..
And it just triggered war memories in him. Also the death of the LDS man was in news this morning..so if he saw that, he would know church would be full...moo

 

[airportwoman]

It's just awful to think LE arrived in less than 1 minute and THIS isn't something they can really prepare for. Someone shooting, setting fire, AND having IED's. I mean come on, LE can prepare for many things, but sometimes the evil just surpasses anything that can be planned for or anticipated. This is unthinkable.

They were probably just out doing routine patrols, and got THIS call.

It reminds me of one of those old A&E programs about serial killers, and there was a cop who said, "It's the nature of police work; you're driving around giving out parking tickets, and a guy calls to say that his dog brought a head home and it's sitting out in his front yard."