MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Knox]

GENESEE COUNTY, MI – Two more bodies have been found at the scene of shooting at a Grand Blanc church, bringing the number of deceased victims to four, police said. Eight other gunshot victims remain in the hospital.

Investigators continue to search debris for other victims from the shooting Sunday, Sept. 28, and fire that destroyed the church.

There are some who remain unaccounted for.

The FBI has taken over the investigation.

Death toll rises in Michigan church shooting, fire

Police said others are unaccounted for as investigators search fire debris.

www.mlive.com

 

[Snoopster]

So the shooter last night in Southport NC was an ex-marine and the suspect in this case is also. They are both around 40 years old. I understand that mental health issues are challenging, but these people deserved lots of support from Veteran's Affairs after coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan. I know it's not simple. For sure there will be people who will fall through the cracks or those that simply can't be helped.

(Not political. Just expressing concern for those for people with PTSD and those around them who struggle to help them. Hugs to all.)

 

[iamshadow21]

Suspect used gasoline to start the fire.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?post-id=cmg4dbqm1001f356o4b1yu846

 

[Arkay]

Again, a thread I try to avoid because it’s too painful but then I try belatedly to catch up.

While IMO the worst of the worst we see here is when a child is killed, this tragedy is just too much.

It is the ordinariness now of acts that used to be extraordinary. It sure does feel like it’s a weekly event now. Someone, usually a male and often a young male, goes on a rampage against one target or against a group. The next week brings the next murders.

For me part of the problem is that some of the murderers seem to be problematic or even deranged prior to their crimes, while the rest seem to spring up from loving, intact families, with nothing so overt that gives a tell to what’s coming.

This man was a Marine and a father. Unless perhaps some PTSD, what makes a 40-year old man with an ill child go berserk on a Mormon church?

Shooting AND a fire? He really wanted multiple victims.

I’m not caught up and maybe my questions are answered above.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

I haven't heard any mention of the shooter's wife or son. I wonder if they are connected to this church in some way. Has anyone seen how far away from his home this church was located? I wonder if this was totally random or if there is a personal connection for him to this church. This seems so much more than just a shooting. I know that sounds awful just to write because a shooting is horrific enough so don't take that as me saying shootings are not horrific also. But to crash into the building, shoot people, bring IED's AND set it on fire. At the presser they said they believe an accelerate (gasoline) was used. I mean he was really trying to destroy the building too. It seems he didn't intend to survive this.

 

[angelainwi]

I haven't heard any mention of the shooter's wife or son. I wonder if they are connected to this church in some way. Has anyone seen how far away from his home this church was located? I wonder if this was totally random or if there is a personal connection for him to this church. This seems so much more than just a shooting. I know that sounds awful just to write because a shooting is horrific enough so don't take that as me saying shootings are not horrific also. But to crash into the building, shoot people, bring IED's AND set it on fire. At the presser they said they believe an accelerate (gasoline) was used. I mean he was really trying to destroy the building too. It seems he didn't intend to survive this.

He appears to have lived about 12 minutes from the church.

 

[iamshadow21]

Again, a thread I try to avoid because it’s too painful but then I try belatedly to catch up.

While IMO the worst of the worst we see here is when a child is killed, this tragedy is just too much.

It is the ordinariness now of acts that used to be extraordinary. It sure does feel like it’s a weekly event now. Someone, usually a male and often a young male, goes on a rampage against one target or against a group. The next week brings the next murders.

For me part of the problem is that some of the murderers seem to be problematic or even deranged prior to their crimes, while the rest seem to spring up from loving, intact families, with nothing so overt that gives a tell to what’s coming.

This man was a Marine and a father. Unless perhaps some PTSD, what makes a 40-year old man with an ill child go berserk on a Mormon church?

Shooting AND a fire? He really wanted multiple victims.

I’m not caught up and maybe my questions are answered above.

JMO

No answers, just stunned grief at this point.

I will never understand someone wanting to hurt others so badly, and in such an indiscriminate way.

MOO

 

[Snoopster]

I haven't heard any mention of the shooter's wife or son. I wonder if they are connected to this church in some way. Has anyone seen how far away from his home this church was located? I wonder if this was totally random or if there is a personal connection for him to this church. This seems so much more than just a shooting. I know that sounds awful just to write because a shooting is horrific enough so don't take that as me saying shootings are not horrific also. But to crash into the building, shoot people, bring IED's AND set it on fire. At the presser they said they believe an accelerate (gasoline) was used. I mean he was really trying to destroy the building too. It seems he didn't intend to survive this.

I'll have to look back for the media video, but it sounds like the guy was pretty local, which makes the locals even more devastated.

 

[angelainwi]

I'll have to look back for the media video, but it sounds like the guy was pretty local, which makes the locals even more devastated.

He appears to have lived 12 minutes from the church

 

[Snoopster]

He appears to have lived 12 minutes from the church

Sorry that I missed your earlier post. I must have been typing my reply at the time.

It will be tough for the community to handle. No doubt.

 

[Arkay]

They were essentially helpless ... but should have had an expectation of safety in a place of worship !!

Oh, 1000%, this is as is SHOULD be.

Yet here in NYC most synagogues, including mine, have security now due to so many anti-Semitic attacks.

What should be a bastion of peace and safety— a house of worship— is just another target these days.

IMO and recent experience.

 

[iamshadow21]

For any who might be wondering about the white square to the upper left above the crashed truck - it's probably a sign. Every LDS church has one in whatever the local language is. It's often on the building, but it can be on the perimeter fence if the church has one. My childhood church had it on the building in the '80s and '90s - and that sign is probably still there - but it now has a perimeter fence, I think because people from the high school across the road kept using their parking lot and it became an issue, so now they have the sign on the fence.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 8-11 Imperial Ave, Emu Plains NSW 2750 Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 8-11 Imperial Ave, Emu Plains NSW 2750 - 2DYWMHR from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

If it's not a welcome sign, it could be a plaque with the dates of the building process and dedication. They're often inside the building, but sometimes they're on the outside.

MOO

I found a better picture, it IS a welcome sign.

Source: Suspected Mormon church shooter an Iraq War veteran

Makes his choice of impact spot feel all the more pointed, IMO.

 

[Arkay]

Okay, your local friendly ex-LDS stopping in to give you a primer on church architecture.

This is a church, not a temple. Temples are big important buildings for specific rites. Only certain people can go there. A church is where everyone meets for weekly services and church related activities, like youth groups.

LDS churches are a bit like McDonald's. There's some variation based on age and location, but not much. That wall he hit, I am almost 100% certain is the wall of the chapel. The chapel is the holiest part of a church. It's the room you have your weekly services in. Talks by members, sacrament, prayers and hymns. That wall is probably directly behind the pulpit.

I suspect this killer had knowledge of where people would be and when. The sacrament meeting when everyone is in the chapel is the one time everyone is in the one place. If he'd hit there when Sunday school was happening, everyone would have been spread out in seperate rooms divided by age and gender and the chapel probably would have been empty, except for maybe a few young men cleaning up after sacrament.

The church would have been crammed today, btw, even with only sometimes attendees, because of the death of the prophet yesterday.

MOO

Thank you, Shadow. I’m really not very familiar with the structure of a LDS house of worship, and this helps me visualize.

 

[Charlot123]

Suspect used gasoline to start the fire.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?post-id=cmg4dbqm1001f356o4b1yu846

OMG. How horrible. Condolences to all members of the congregation. To the police or EMTs who have to help. To those having to clean the CS and look for the remains.

 

[Arkay]

Local news story from 2007 about Jake.

‘We are very proud of him? - Clarkston News

Atlas Twp.-Since his graduation from Goodrich High School in 2003, Thomas ‘Jake? Sanford, has been a Marine on the move’from a stint in Okinawa, Japan, to earning honors on the rifle range, to achieving the rank of sergeant’Jake’s military career has been stellar. Now the 22-year-old Atlas...

clarkstonnews.com

This just breaks the heart.

From the outside looking in, once again it seems that we have ANOTHER murderer who came from a loving family who was so proud of him.

What transpired between an eager 22-year old enlisting voluntarily, and that man at 40 killing people in a church?

Not an incel this time as he was a married father, although I haven’t finished catching up so I don’t know if he’s still married?

Is it the pressure of his son having a disease, is it PTSD from fighting in Fallujah?

I’m asking rhetorically because I understand we do not know.

JM speculations.

 

[Kalanit]

I called my very much still-LDS parents to check in on them on this obviously emotional day and found out they have a heartbreaking personal connection to one of the people shot. Suffice to say, this event has long-reaching impact.
*my opinion.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thank you, Shadow. I’m really not very familiar with the structure of a LDS house of worship, and this helps me visualize.

No problem! I always turn up on the LDS case threads, because I know people often have no idea and have questions, and I figure all that stuff in my head from my first eighteen years might as well be useful for something. (I'm serious, ask me anything, just keep it relevant for the thread to spare the mods a headache.)

The confusion between temples and churches/chapels is real, I read at least one book on the Vallow/Daybell cases where the author had absolutely no idea and kept confusing them.

An LDS church has a chapel, which is where everyone gathers for sacrament meeting. It will often have a hall, which is a large multi-purpose space. There will be classrooms and offices. Bathrooms, of course. A kitchen. A font for baptism, which isn't birdbath sized, but a waist deep pool for baptism by immersion.

The church in question seems to have had their chapel (and probably the hall) centrally, with classrooms and offices arranged around the outside. It looks like it was probably built all at once or in a stage or two (maybe one set of classrooms then the other), and maybe in the '80s. I don't think anything will be salvageable. I'm guessing what remains will be demolished, and they'll do a complete rebuild. That's where the tithing money goes. In the meantime, other local churches will either take in a handful of families each or one will rearrange their meeting times to make space for the entire ward to use their building. It's not as uncommon as you'd think - when a building has a major extention or renovation or something necessary like asbestos removal, it's common for people to meet at another church until their building is usable again. I've never seen one lost to fire, not since the early church times, but I'm sure it's happened somewhere.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I found a better picture, it IS a welcome sign.

View attachment 617117
Source: Suspected Mormon church shooter an Iraq War veteran

Makes his choice of impact spot feel all the more pointed, IMO.

Oh wow. That is one telling photo. Wow.

jmopinion

 

[iamshadow21]

Oh wow. That is one telling photo. Wow.

jmopinion

Yeah. It says it all, really. You can feel the spite behind it.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Yeah. It says it all, really. You can feel the spite behind it.

MOO

And the wholesomeness of the welcome.

jmo