MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[FoxxTraxx]

No problem! I always turn up on the LDS case threads, because I know people often have no idea and have questions, and I figure all that stuff in my head from my first eighteen years might as well be useful for something. (I'm serious, ask me anything, just keep it relevant for the thread to spare the mods a headache.)

The confusion between temples and churches/chapels is real, I read at least one book on the Vallow/Daybell cases where the author had absolutely no idea and kept confusing them.

An LDS church has a chapel, which is where everyone gathers for sacrament meeting. It will often have a hall, which is a large multi-purpose space. There will be classrooms and offices. Bathrooms, of course. A kitchen. A font for baptism, which isn't a birdbath sized, but a waist deep pool for baptism by immersion.

The church in question seems to have had their chapel (and probably the hall) centrally, with classrooms and offices arranged around the outside. It looks like it was probably built all at once or in a stage or two (maybe one set of classrooms then the other), and maybe in the '80s. I don't think anything will be salvageable. I'm guessing what remains will be demolished, and they'll do a complete rebuild. That's where the tithing money goes. In the meantime, other local churches will either take in a handful of families each or one will rearrange their meeting times to make space for the entire ward to use their building. It's not as uncommon as you'd think - when a building has a major extention or renovation or something necessary like asbestos removal, it's common for people to meet at another church until their building is usable again. I've never seen one lost to fire, not since the early church times, but I'm sure it's happened somewhere.

MOO

Does the LDS church teach pacifism? Some denominations in the US like Mennonites, Quakers, and Amish greatly discourage physical confrontation/conflict. I ask because the apparent perpetrator was in the military, and perhaps there was an unresolved issue about that.

 

[Inthedetails]

Does the LDS church teach pacifism? Some denominations in the US like Mennonites, Quakers, and Amish greatly discourage physical confrontation/conflict. I ask because the apparent perpetrator was in the military, and perhaps there was an unresolved issue about that.

No.

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

Does the LDS church teach pacifism? Some denominations in the US like Mennonites, Quakers, and Amish greatly discourage physical confrontation/conflict. I ask because the apparent perpetrator was in the military, and perhaps there was an unresolved issue about that.

Not as such, beyond the typical Christian tenets and the 'thou shalt not kill' of the ten commandments. There's absolutely no problem with members being part of the armed forces or owning firearms. I had both military servicemen and gun owners in my immediate family who were 'temple worthy' church members.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I called my very much still-LDS parents to check in on them on this obviously emotional day and found out they have a heartbreaking personal connection to one of the people shot. Suffice to say, this event has long-reaching impact.
*my opinion.

I made a point of letting my mother and housemate know the moment they woke up this morning so that they didn't find out by accident. We're on the other side of the world, so they don't know anyone affected, but still.

MOO

 

[Arkay]

@Kalanit

I called my very much still-LDS parents to check in on them on this obviously emotional day and found out they have a heartbreaking personal connection to one of the people shot. Suffice to say, this event has long-reaching impact.
*my opinion.

How awful! This makes it even more real, as your family has been personally impacted by this gruesome act of hatred.

Would you tell them that even though we are “invisible,” your friends here at WS are thinking of them and their friend who was shot?

Inevitably we are all touched to the core by these inexplicable and ever more frequent acts of hate.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

Michigan church death toll doubles after Iraq war veteran opened fire

Police said a 40-year-old man opened fire on hundreds of people who had gathered for a service at the Church of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc on Sunday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This article answered my question as to whether or not this murderer was still married. It also says he has “kids,” plural. I think so far I’d only read above about his son who had an awful disease.

Family man in middle age. Not so typical for a mass murderer, even though it’s getting more difficult to discern what is “typical” these days.

It’s difficult to shake off the despair, when every week seems to bring its own tragedy, similar to the ones that have gone before but each with its own idiosyncrasies.

JMO

 

[Panniniclaus]

He may have been a member of LDS and become disillusioned. Life isn't fair, bad things kept happening to him and his faith was not being returned in kind. My take at what could be a motive.

 

[whitelilac]

Up to 7 people unaccounted for as search concludes for the night, source says​

From CNN’s Josh Campbell
A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation told CNN the search inside the church has concluded for the night with as many as seven people still unaccounted for.

The official cautioned the number could include survivors who have not yet been in touch with their families.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?t=1759115049184

 

[EphemerallyAya]

He may have been a member of LDS and become disillusioned. Life isn't fair, bad things kept happening to him and his faith was not being returned in kind. My take at what could be a motive.

I wonder if the death of the LDS leader had anything to do with it... but it couldn't be in response to any new leadership as there just wouldn't have been enough time - not even a day ago. Unless the shooter was planning and waiting for his death to do it?

But do we really have any evidence he had any connection to them at all? I'm trying to wrap my head around pure evil.

Always, just Imo...

 

[iamshadow21]

I wonder if the death of the LDS leader had anything to do with it... but it couldn't be in response to any new leadership as there just wouldn't have been enough time - not even a day ago. Unless the shooter was planning and waiting for his death to do it?

But do we really have any evidence he had any connection to them at all? I'm trying to wrap my head around pure evil.

Always, just Imo...

I think the turnaround time on constructing multiple IEDs is too short for it to be a trigger. We're talking less than a day. I think the death of the prophet is going to turn out to be a coincidence. Or if related, it's just going to be tenuous, as in 'oh, there's going to be plenty of people at the LDS church today, I'll attack there'. Or, he had another reason that he felt resentful to the church.

We have no indication so far that he was a member, and I think the Daily Mail and the other tabs would have dug that up hours ago if he was. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am at this point.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

LE have refused to comment on a possible motive related to the killing of Charlie Kirk or on whether the killer had any connection to the LDS church.

A day of tragedy and heroism in Michigan

At least four victims were killed in the shooting and meetinghouse fire, where police say a Latter-day Saint congregation displayed "extreme courage."

www.deseret.com

Asked in the news conference about speculation that the shooting is connected to the killing of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk in Utah earlier this month, Michigan State Police Lt. Kim Vetter said, “That’s exactly what it is. It’s speculation.”

Vetter also declined to say whether Sanford had any connection to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or its members.

 

[airportwoman]

Non-LDS Christian here.

Isn't an LDS temple for members only, whereas the church itself outside a temple is welcome to all?

 

[iamshadow21]

Non-LDS Christian here.

Isn't an LDS temple for members only, whereas the church itself outside a temple is welcome to all?

Yes.

This was an attack on a church, not a temple.

Churches are throughout the community, temples are only where there are high concentrations of members, and are only accessible to church members of good standing with what's called a temple recommend (like a license to access it) for special rites. Australia didn't even get a temple until I was about three. My mother had a civil marriage here then travelled to New Zealand to have her temple marriage. But we have plenty of churches.

This was a regular LDS church with a regular congregation, open to all. The minor differences to it is it seems to have been their local stake centre, which means it's a larger building that can host multiple congregations at once for special meetings, called conferences, if Wikipedia is correct. Unless they have another larger church building within the area, it may impact their ability to hold larger events until it is rebuilt.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

" 'Worshippers had just finished the Sacrament,
the first half of the two-hour long service',
said Paula, a woman who was at the church house.

'We heard a big bang
and the doors flew open'.

Police said the suspect fired several rounds from an assault weapon at the worshippers.

Churchgoers rushed to protect children,
Grand Blanc Township Police Chief William Renye said at a news conference Sunday.

'They were shielding the children who are also present within the church,
moving them to safety'.

Some of the primary children were hurt.

As the suspect fled the church, two officers pursued him and 'engaged in gunfire',
the police chief said.
The suspect was killed in the parking lot eight minutes after police arrived.

Details around the blaze are still being investigated.
Authorities are
'trying to determine exactly when and where that fire ended up coming from and how it got started',
though they believe the suspect started the fire 'deliberately',
Renye added.

Sanford used an accelerant, like gasoline, police believe, to light the church on fire.
Investigators said they found
'some suspected explosive devices'.

The chapel,
once bathed in sunlight and surrounded by greenery,
is now unrecognizable.

The building is a 'total loss',
Renye said.

'Visitors welcome' signage
serves as a testament to the faith’s robust evangelizing efforts.

But on Sunday morning,
one visitor took advantage of the Church’s open arms."

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/29/us/how-shooting-fire-michigan-church-unfolded

 

[Dotta]

LE have refused to comment on a possible motive related to the killing of Charlie Kirk or on whether the killer had any connection to the LDS church.

A day of tragedy and heroism in Michigan

At least four victims were killed in the shooting and meetinghouse fire, where police say a Latter-day Saint congregation displayed "extreme courage."

www.deseret.com

Asked in the news conference about speculation that the shooting is connected to the killing of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk in Utah earlier this month, Michigan State Police Lt. Kim Vetter said, “That’s exactly what it is. It’s speculation.”

Vetter also declined to say whether Sanford had any connection to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or its members.

IMO!!!

Honestly folks,
the "motive" seems to be as blurry and hazy as the sick and hateful mind of the murderer.

As in all mindless shootings I lost track of.

Looking for the precise "motive" is like
"looking for a wind blowing in the fields".

The answer is always the same - hatred.
Nothing more, nothing less.

JMO

 

[MollyHarps]

Just caught up on this - how devastating.

Looking at the pictures Im actually amazed the casualties are not much higher.

Thoughts go out to the families snd my prayers go out to the families still waiting for news.

 

[Inthedetails]

Churchgoers reportedly heard a loud bang as the attacker crashed his truck into the church.

“We at first thought someone had accidentally crashed into the church, so we went out to help him,” the man told the local TV station.

Paul Kirby, 38, who also ran outside to render assistance believing it to be an accident, told the New York Times he saw the man getting out of the truck from about 10-20 yards away before he realized what was happening.

“He started shooting at me,” Kirby said, saying a bullet whizzed through a nearby glass door, clipping his leg with a piece of shrapnel.

Exclusive | Iraq War veteran Thomas Sanford ID’d as gunman who attacked Grand Blanc LDS church, killing 4 and setting it ablaze

The deranged madman who killed at least four people and injured eight others at a Michigan Latter-day Saints church, torching the building and opening fire on fleeing congregants and their families…

nypost.com

 

[MrsWatson]

2 more bodies found after Michigan church shooting led to devastating fire

Two of the dead at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are believed to have been trapped inside the church and perished in the flames.

eu.freep.com

 

[DS2021]

2 more bodies found after Michigan church shooting led to devastating fire

Two of the dead at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are believed to have been trapped inside the church and perished in the flames.

eu.freep.com

Just to clarify these are the same two bodies found last night. The victim count is still 4

 

[Inthedetails]

By close to 9 p.m. Sunday, Sept. 28, federal, state and local authorities — some 15 vehicles — converged on Weil Dairy Farm on Gale Road in Goodrich, about 12 miles from Sanford's home in Burton. They appeared to be looking for something, but it was unclear what.

Grand Blanc Township church shooting live updates: What we know about victims, suspect

The latest news on the shooting and fire at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc Township on Sept. 28, 2025.

www.freep.com