MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Serononin]

I read the entire building is a total loss. It's a big building. I hope insurance covers it. That's a big expense there. I'd hate to think the church members would have to figure out how to pony up that one. Bad enough loss of life and injuries.

The LDS Church as an institution is incredibly wealthy, so I should hope that they'll cover the rebuilding costs if insurance doesn't

 

[Corina]

I worked on them in 2003-2005. They went from ground to complete in about 5-6 months. Frankly they were the most spec'd out jobs I ever did that weren't powerhouses or US Govt stuff. These were all wood with brick exteriors, real brick. And like someone said, very utilitarian, especially compared to the nearby temple.

[bbm] sorry, it's an idiom I'm unfamiliar with: what does "the most spec'd out jobs" mean, please? Is it a good thing, or otherwise?

 

[iamshadow21]

[bbm] sorry, it's an idiom I'm unfamiliar with: what does "the most spec'd out jobs" mean, please? Is it a good thing, or otherwise?

Very high standard of materials and finish.
Spec being short for specifications.

Tl;dr, the church had exacting high standards on a level that was notable.

MOO

 

[Izzylizzy]

I missed the info that he is married to LDS wife so I'm asking for clarification if that is fact or speculation? tia

No, it's not speculation.
His wife is LDS and he converted.

 

[Inthedetails]

Am I the only one who sees him as "mainstream for the area" before that crime? No bad blood in school, had friends, liked in the army, not asocial, a good neighbor. He lived in Utah, but in 2010, so whatever could have happened there was 15 years ago! He is likely an average voter, no more obsessed with politics than others. DUI and a burglary stand out, but it happens, and as long as there is no recidivism, people with good family support can fit back in. (We don't know the circumstances, of course). He has a sick child, this is what sets him apart, but he and wife managed. They bought a house. Nothing that we know today explains the horrible act.

What we know though is that there is a history of substance and alcohol use. Periodically reverting back to old habits is not uncommon. Could that have triggered a psychotic event?

Sanford is friendly to a total stranger who canvasses the neighborhood (so, not that paranoid or angry, it seems). In the conversation he is obsessively fixated on LDS, but not to a dangerous degree, the visitor thinks. Could taking too much of *whatever floats on the streets these days, and we don't always know what* turn some prejudice into a deadly sick obsession?

Well, your guess is as good as mine. I hope we’d be told what has caused such distorted thinking. His family is shocked, it seems.

That's my read on the situation too. Seems mainstream for the area but then exploded, to everyone's surprise. He's not like other perps when people say, "yeah, he was troubled and caused problems."

My hunch is he had very rigid thinking and in recent years became emeshed in topics that angered him until he snapped (as happens when rigid, imo). But what, why, and how, I don't know.

Though, I would assume if he had become upset about topics in recent years, family and neighbors would've noticed. So far we have just one man, who didn't know him personally, state it was uncomfortable talking to him because of the perp's dislike for LDS faith. That's one clue.

The other clue is financial and emotional strain from son's illness. That stress potentially made him vulnerable to anger and lashing out at others.

And there is a clue that a nearby farm was visited by LE. Did the perp work there or buy farm items there. Or he is related? We don't know.

We know the perp spent time in Utah years ago and was involved with an LDS woman (before he married his wife). I'm assuming that was an influence on him, but how?

The flags on prominent display on his truck while he committed a crime is a clue, imo. I realize it is not uncommon in some areas to display flags on trucks, but he did it while committing mass murder and that is not common. I think we can consider the display meaningful, though I don't know what the message was supposed to be.

And, the act itself is a clue. This wasn't "just" shooting, but ramming into the building itself and destroying it by fire. Why?!?

My opinion only, based on the little we know at this point. Opinion subject to change as we learn more.

jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

Michigan church shooter Thomas Sanford's mom dropped eerie hint on social media: 'People lack accountability' - The Times of India

US News: 40-year-old Thomas Jacob Sanford rammed a Michigan Church with his vehicle, got out and opened fire with an assault rifle, killing at least four peopl.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Inthedetails]

So far we have just one man, who didn't know him personally, state it was uncomfortable talking to him because of the perp's dislike for LDS faith. That's one clue.

snipped

Replying to myself. More people are now coming forward to say the perp had anger against LDS.

A summary of a paywalled article:

Life-long friends say the perp's anger against the LDS church stemmed from a relationship with the girlfriend in Utah years ago.

A friend also said the perp changed from class-clown to serious after serving in the military, but the Utah situation and meth changed him more. First we've heard of meth use?

According to friends (plural), the perp was vocal about hating the LDS church and thought the church wanted to take over the world. Apparently, he talked about this A LOT.

The perp worked for his family's fireplace business.

Michigan Church Attacker Is Said to Have Held a Grudge Against Mormons

Several friends and acquaintances of the man accused of attacking a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints meetinghouse said he had long railed against the faith.

www.nytimes.com

 

[iamshadow21]

snipped

Replying to myself. More people are now coming forward to say the perp had anger against LDS.

A summary of a paywalled article:

Life-long friends say the perp's anger against the LDS church stemmed from a relationship with the girlfriend in Utah years ago.

A friend also said the perp changed from class-clown to serious after serving in the military, but the Utah situation and meth changed him more. First we've heard of meth use?

According to friends (plural), the perp was vocal about hating the LDS church and thought the church wanted to take over the world. Apparently, he talked about this A LOT.

The perp worked for his family's fireplace business.

Michigan Church Attacker Is Said to Have Held a Grudge Against Mormons

Several friends and acquaintances of the man accused of attacking a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints meetinghouse said he had long railed against the faith.

www.nytimes.com

Guy is at someone's wedding and all he can talk about to anyone is how much he hates LDS. Talks to that politician a few weeks back about the same thing, about his LDS ex who is NOT the woman he married and had a child with years and years ago, but before then.

Fixated monomaniac injustice collector. Like pretty much all mass shooters and bombers. If it hadn't been LDS he fixed on, it would have been something else. A school. A politician. A government building. The local VA.

His anger and feeling of entitlement was bigger than his humanity.

MOO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Brian's interview with Chris who is running for local office and spoke with TS shortly before Sunday.

 

[Izzylizzy]

11:50 Nate begins on LDS shooting and interviews

 

[Inthedetails]

Good interview with the local candidate who talked with the perp. Worth the listen. He says the perp didn't talk politics or current events, but did want to talk about LDS. He also mentioned he had a substance abuse issue, but it seems that is why he went to Utah not that he currently has an issue with drugs. He was very into the religion's history and wanted to talk about.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Brian's interview with Chris who is running for local office and spoke with TS shortly before Sunday.

@ 11:53 Chris said that TS told him" they want me to give up my tattoos for sealment".
One has to be a member of the LDS Church before one can become sealed.
IIRC: LDS members must be in good standing with the church along with a recommendation from a higher up (Bishop) and if they are struggling with issues in their marriage they are encouraged to work through them with or without counseling before being sealed.
IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Guy is at someone's wedding and all he can talk about to anyone is how much he hates LDS. Talks to that politician a few weeks back about the same thing, about his LDS ex who is NOT the woman he married and had a child with years and years ago, but before then.

Fixated monomaniac injustice collector. Like pretty much all mass shooters and bombers. If it hadn't been LDS he fixed on, it would have been something else. A school. A politician. A government building. The local VA.

His anger and feeling of entitlement was bigger than his humanity.

MOO

Could his hatred be from the request years ago in Utah that he remove his tattoos in order to be sealed in the LDS church? Maybe his tattoos are so meaningful that he was deeply hurt to be rejected because of that and he festered and researched for years, only to get more and more angry? If so, that is definitely an injustice collector.

(I am not taking a stance on tattoos or on the church, but wondering about what HIS perception might have been.)


jmopinion

 

[Izzylizzy]

TS tells Chris that in 2009 he moved to Utah to "plow snow" and he met "Miss Utah's little sister".
???
I thought he moved to Michigan in 2009.



@ 8:02

 

[Izzylizzy]

Could his hatred be from the request years ago in Utah that he remove his tattoos in order to be sealed in the LDS church? Maybe his tattoos are so meaningful that he was deeply hurt to be rejected because of that and he festered and researched for years, only to get more and more angry? If so, that is definitely an injustice collector.

(I am not taking a stance on tattoos or on the church, but wondering about what HIS perception might have been.)


jmopinion

My wonder is his marriage and did the church's doctrine cause martial problems that are the root of his disdain for all things Mormon or was it their overall doctrine that caused him to call the Mormon Church the "anti-Christ" or a combination of both?
We may never know.
imo

 

[Inthedetails]

Guy is at someone's wedding and all he can talk about to anyone is how much he hates LDS. Talks to that politician a few weeks back about the same thing, about his LDS ex who is NOT the woman he married and had a child with years and years ago, but before then.

snipped

I'm feeling for his wife, who likely had to hear about the Utah ex-girlfriend.

jmopinion

 

[Lilibet]

I haven’t seen this on the thread, so if I missed it I’m sorry if it’s a repeat. I’m not sure it means anything about his current political beliefs, but he hadn’t taken down the Trump sign. It’s likely this attack was just about LDS, but it doesn’t appear he was a “radical left-wing terrorist,” the label used so freely lately, so I think this is an important point to make. In any case, this is a terrible tragedy and an evil act by a clearly troubled man regardless of his political beliefs. JMO

Mormon church shooting suspect had Trump sign outside home, records show

Google Maps images show suspect who was shot dead by police had Trump sign outside his Michigan house

www.theguardian.com

Images on Google Maps taken in June show that Sanford had a blue sign with Trump’s last name attached to a shed on the side of his house in Burton, Michigan, about a 15-minute drive from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints authorities say he targeted Sunday morning.

The placard, first reported by the Daily Beast, was propped up above a red stop sign. The image of the placard was too unclear to tell definitively whether it also displayed the last name of Mike Pence or JD Vance – Trump’s running mates during his three presidential campaigns since 2016.

Meanwhile, a family photo posted on Facebook shows Sanford posing alongside his wife and 10-year-old son wearing a Re-elect Trump 2020 T-shirt. The shirt from when the first of Trump’s two presidencies ended in defeat to Joe Biden carries the logo “Make Liberals Cry Again”.

Who is Michigan church attacker Thomas Jacob Sanford

Thomas Jacob Sanford, who commonly went by 'Jake', was shot dead in the parking lot of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc, Michigan on Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

(Good photos, of course)

In one image, Sanford poses alongside his wife and son wearing a pro-Trump shirt with the message: 'Make Liberals Cry Again.'

The shirt, which sells for $15.95 on eBay, has a cartoon style picture of Trump with his fist in the air, and reads: 'Re-elect Trump 2020.'

Sanford's loved ones, including his wife and both of his parents, also frequently shared pro-Trump messaging on their social media pages.

 

[Izzylizzy]

As late as 2022 TS still had his arm tattoos.

Michigan church shooter Thomas Sanford called Mormonism ‘the antichrist’ in hateful tirade to city council candidate​

Michigan church shooter Thomas Sanford called Mormonism ‘the antichrist’ in hateful tirade to city council candidate

Michigan church shooter Thomas Sanford raged against Mormons to a candidate for city council in his hometown just days before burning a Latter-day Saints church to the ground and opening fire at co…

nypost.com

 

[detective.moon]

My wonder is his marriage and did the church's doctrine cause martial problems that are the root of his disdain for all things Mormon or was it their overall doctrine that caused him to call the Mormon Church the "anti-Christ" or a combination of both?
We may never know.
imo

my guess is he felt personally hurt/victimised by the church because he lost the love of his life when their relationship didn’t work out because he didn’t fit in with the church. then he found people online saying “lds is the antichrist” etc and used that to justify his anger and obsession towards the church. jmo.

i feel for both his wife and the ex-girlfriend he kept obsessing over.

 

[Inthedetails]

my guess is he felt personally hurt/victimised by the church because he lost the love of his life when their relationship didn’t work out because he didn’t fit in with the church. then he found people online saying “lds is the antichrist” etc and used that to justify his anger and obsession towards the church. jmo.

i feel for both his wife and the ex-girlfriend he kept obsessing over.

I agree. What's so curious is 2025 is YEARS later, and so much has happened in his life since his time in Utah. Why did he attack now?

jmopinion