MI MI - Jackson Co, BlkFem, 28-40, UP8182, auburn wig, prev broken jaw & nose, shoulder surgery, Aug'78

[Goecke]

Thinking out loud, could the 'previous breaks' to her jaw and nose be from facial feminization surgery? Not sure what that process was like in the 70s, but I know that it commonly involves getting the jaw 'shaved down' to get a more feminine shape.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

Thinking out loud, could the 'previous breaks' to her jaw and nose be from facial feminization surgery? Not sure what that process was like in the 70s, but I know that it commonly involves getting the jaw 'shaved down' to get a more feminine shape.

Facial feminizing surgery was first pioneered in the early 80s

 

[evilwise]

Is it possible her family only knew her as a male and reported her missing as one?

I think this is very likely but it's interesting that they passed as biologically female even upon medical examination for so many years. Now that the DNA has been sequenced and there is an activist organization on it, I bet the family will be found fairly soon. I'm curious as to what their reaction will be.

 

[MarziPanda]

I wonder if, instead of a trans woman, she might have been intersex/DSD? Some people who are intersex don't even know they are. There are men who look like typical men but have XX chromosomes, and women who look like typical women but have XY chromosomes. A fetus has the base code of female and then with the Y chromosome, various changes take place. In Swyer syndrome and a few other related conditions, these changes don't happen. A baby can be born looking like a typical female on the outside, and can even have a uterus and fallopian tubes, but they don't have ovaries. They have non-working internal testes, and they have XY chromosomes. Genetically, they are male but to the outside world and in their skeletal structure/bodies, they are female.

I would think trans women are more common (and they can appear AFAB skeletally due to hormones) but it's worth thinking about when some women with Swyer/related conditions don't even know they have XY chromosomes.

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

I was wondering if an intersexed individual would be a possibility, especially with indeterminate skeletal factors. Most of these conditions, though, i.e. Swyer/androgen insensitivity/etc, tend to be diagnosed at puberty (if not before), as puberty either doesn't occur at all, or the individual fails to menstruate. So an adult would maybe have some knowledge that they had one of these conditions, and likely their parents and other close family members would also be aware, so that might be something to ask about or publicize. An additional victim found in the same park was female (Charlene Gwynn, 23 or 24 years old, black, sex worker, Detroit), so, assuming they had the same killer, it's possible the killer believed the victim to be female and otherwise demographically similar. As far as I can tell, Charlene's murder is still unsolved. Charlene was found bound in the fetal position, but her remains were in much better condition--she was found within days of her disappearance/death--while our Doe was found weeks to months after death, actually only while investigating the scene of Charlene's body, so less info is known about their cause of death.

Based on the clothing sizes (26" waist jeans, size 5/6 clothing [1978 5/6, not the much larger modern sizing]), I would guess this person to have a fairly slightly build and be pretty thin. Obviously body composition plays a role, and genetic XY will typically have heavier bones/muscles, but 5'3" and 130 lbs seems heavier than the clothing would make me think.

UP8182 Body Discovery

Clipping found in Lansing State Journal published in Lansing, Michigan on 8/31/1978. UP8182 Body Discovery

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 9/1/78

Clipping found in The Herald-Palladium published in Benton Harbor, Michigan on 9/1/1978. UP8182 9/1/78

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Map

Clipping found in Detroit Free Press published in Detroit, Michigan on 9/1/1978. UP8182 Map

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Additional Victim Identified?

Clipping found in Detroit Free Press published in Detroit, Michigan on 9/2/1978. UP8182 Additional Victim Identified?

www.newspapers.com

UP 8182 Victim Charlene Gwynn

Clipping found in Battle Creek Enquirer published in Battle Creek, Michigan on 9/2/1978. UP 8182 Victim Charlene Gwynn

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Sex Killer

Clipping found in Lansing State Journal published in Lansing, Michigan on 9/28/1978. UP8182 Sex Killer

www.newspapers.com

 

[phantomstrider]

3860UMMI

 

[RememberingRyan]

I was wondering if an intersexed individual would be a possibility, especially with indeterminate skeletal factors. Most of these conditions, though, i.e. Swyer/androgen insensitivity/etc, tend to be diagnosed at puberty (if not before), as puberty either doesn't occur at all, or the individual fails to menstruate. So an adult would maybe have some knowledge that they had one of these conditions, and likely their parents and other close family members would also be aware, so that might be something to ask about or publicize. An additional victim found in the same park was female (Charlene Gwynn, 23 or 24 years old, black, sex worker, Detroit), so, assuming they had the same killer, it's possible the killer believed the victim to be female and otherwise demographically similar. As far as I can tell, Charlene's murder is still unsolved. Charlene was found bound in the fetal position, but her remains were in much better condition--she was found within days of her disappearance/death--while our Doe was found weeks to months after death, actually only while investigating the scene of Charlene's body, so less info is known about their cause of death.

Based on the clothing sizes (26" waist jeans, size 5/6 clothing [1978 5/6, not the much larger modern sizing]), I would guess this person to have a fairly slightly build and be pretty thin. Obviously body composition plays a role, and genetic XY will typically have heavier bones/muscles, but 5'3" and 130 lbs seems heavier than the clothing would make me think.

UP8182 Body Discovery

Clipping found in Lansing State Journal published in Lansing, Michigan on 8/31/1978. UP8182 Body Discovery

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 9/1/78

Clipping found in The Herald-Palladium published in Benton Harbor, Michigan on 9/1/1978. UP8182 9/1/78

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Map

Clipping found in Detroit Free Press published in Detroit, Michigan on 9/1/1978. UP8182 Map

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Additional Victim Identified?

Clipping found in Detroit Free Press published in Detroit, Michigan on 9/2/1978. UP8182 Additional Victim Identified?

www.newspapers.com

UP 8182 Victim Charlene Gwynn

Clipping found in Battle Creek Enquirer published in Battle Creek, Michigan on 9/2/1978. UP 8182 Victim Charlene Gwynn

www.newspapers.com

UP8182 Sex Killer

Clipping found in Lansing State Journal published in Lansing, Michigan on 9/28/1978. UP8182 Sex Killer

www.newspapers.com

I wouldn't say that conditions like androgen insensitivity were common knowledge in the 50s and 60s, when this person likely experienced puberty... Swyer syndrome had only just been identified in literature in the mid 50s, and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they had any access to participating in chromosome studies and probably never had an ultrasound to differentiate ovaries from testes. Based on the circumstances, I think it's very reasonable to presume that if they had a disorder of sexual development that they wouldn't have necessarily been aware that it was because they had XY sex chromosomes.

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

I wouldn't say that conditions like androgen insensitivity were common knowledge in the 50s and 60s, when this person likely experienced puberty... Swyer syndrome had only just been identified in literature in the mid 50s, and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they had any access to participating in chromosome studies and probably never had an ultrasound to differentiate ovaries from testes. Based on the circumstances, I think it's very reasonable to presume that if they had a disorder of sexual development that they wouldn't have necessarily been aware that it was because they had XY sex chromosomes.

Sure, but a close family member (mom or sister, although mom would be getting up in age at this point) may have known that this person had not had periods or had issues with infertility. Probably more likely that the family would have hidden this sort of information though, assuming they had any access to it or awareness of it. It might be worth looking at missing AFAB individuals, eliminating any that are known to have given birth or become pregnant (I believe there is one case in the literature of someone with those specific conditions giving birth, but that person had some degree of mosaicism--not all cells were XY).

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Jackson Co MI Doe | DNA Doe Project

dnadoeproject.org

 

[DS2021]

3860UMMI - Unidentified Male​

Reconstructions of victim.

Date of Discovery: August 30, 1978
Location of Discovery: Waterloo Township, Jackson County, Michigan
Estimated Date of Death: Months prior
State of Remains: Not recognizable - Near complete or complete skeleton.
Cause of Death: Suspected Homicide.

Physical Description​

Estimated Age: 28-40 years old
Race: Black
Gender: Assigned male at birth, but may have lived as a female.
Height: 5'5"
Weight: 130 lbs, Estimated
Hair Color: Black. Natural. An auburn, wavy, collar-length wig was found with the decedent.
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: There may have been a sizable scar on the anterior aspects of the right shoulder. Missing 10 teeth antemortem, including the two upper front teeth, and there is evidence of a healed nasal fracture. Victim had a shoulder surgical implantation of two large staples into the lateral aspect of greater tubercle of the right humerus and a 32 mm (1 ¼â€) screw into the anterior border of glenoid fossa of the right scapula.

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown
Fingerprints: Unknown
DNA: Available.

Clothing & Personal Items​

Clothing: Blue jeans (26"waist, 33 1/2" inseam), violet colored long sleeved blouse (size 14, 100% silk, label "IRKA"), outer shell a beige colored long sleeve blouse (size 5/6, 100% polyester, label "RD2"), reddish brown nylon neck scarf, panty hose, bikini bra (34), bikini panties (size 4) and Glossy black high heeled shoes (4 1/2" heel) with gold tassel ankle tie.
Jewelry: Unknown
Additional Personal Items: Auburn, wavy, collar-length wig.

Circumstances of Discovery​

The victim was found bound and wrapped in plastic trash bags in the Waterloo Recreational area on August 30, 1978. A witness observed a vehicle dumping what they believed to be garbage at 9:20 a.m. When he went to investigate, he discovered two dead bodies. Detectives were able to identify the additional victim as Charlene Gwynn, a 24-year-old sex worker from Detroit. Authorities believe the cases are connected and that both victims were likely from the metro Detroit area.

Initially, the unidentified decedent was believed to have been biologically female, DNA testing completed in 2021 proved the victim was born biologically male.

Investigating Agency(s)​

Agency Name: Michigan State Police Police - Violent Crimes Unit
Agency Contact Person: Detective Sergeant Brian Russell
Agency Phone Number: 517-420-1274
Agency E-Mail: russellb3(at)michigan.gov
Agency Case Number: 41-5011-78 / 10-1057-17

NCIC Case Number: Unknown
NamUs Case Number: 8182

Information Source(s)​

NamUs
Federal Bureau of Investigation
mlive.com 03-7-14
mlive.com 02-11-21

Admin Notes​

Added: 08/3/22; Last Updated: 08/3/22

 

[DS2021]

Detectives were able to identify the additional victim as Charlene Gwynn, a 24-year-old sex worker from Detroit. Authorities believe the cases are connected and that both victims were likely from the metro Detroit area

From above post.

Im assuming the Deceased was a sex worker too.

Im wondering if they lived as a trans woman, or were cross dressing in order to attract male clients.

 

[phantomstrider]

From above post.

Im assuming the Deceased was a sex worker too.

Im wondering if they lived as a trans woman, or were cross dressing in order to attract male clients.

I submitted this case to doe network. I think it is very likely this person was a trans woman.

 

[cheemsg]

NamUs now says they were female.

 

[RememberingRyan]

Maybe they did further Y chromosome analysis and were able to confirm androgen insensitivity syndrome… That’s going above and beyond in the effort to identify

 

[caradana]

I hope family, however distant, is found and I hope they proudly claim her.

 

[RememberingRyan]

I wonder if Michelle Ellis has been looked at. Her features aren’t a striking match, but sometimes reconstructions - especially with older cases - are unflattering and not the most accurate. Michelle went missing in early August, about 3-4hrs away. She’s young for the estimate (23) and was not said to have a wig at the time, but she had a history of working as a model, so maybe she had a few different styles she used in that line of work. I know it says that her family got a call from someone claiming to be her years later, but we’ve seen cases where people pretend to be missing people before so I don’t think that is any reason to ignore her case as a potential.

4074DFIN - Michelle Ellis

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Jackson Co MI Doe | DNA Doe Project

dnadoeproject.org

Bumping case up. Hope she is identified soon.