Identified! MI - Monroe Co., Female 620UFMI, 20-28, Lake Erie, Mar'82 - Kimberly Wuerthele

[CarlK90245]

Carl, are you a taker into calling or emailing the Medical Examiner??

When I said "coroner", that was who I was talking about (i.e., the Monroe County Medical Examiner).

But sure, I can call them again. I will call them tomorrow, as it's past 5 right now.

 

[chaddylex]

Sorry Carl, I was having a blonde moment... lol. Hopefully maybe you can get the ball rolling if the right person is contacted..

 

[CarlK90245]

I called the Monroe County Medical Examiner's office, and talked to an assistant there (I'm not sure if she was the same assistant as before). But now, they are saying that they don't deal with sorting out leads from the public. She says that the Monroe County Sheriff's office handles all of that.

She also said that she doesn't have a rule-out listing, and that I should contact the Sheriff's office to see if they have one.

This sounds like a bit of buck-passing to me, as in my previous conversation with that office, they told me that the man in charge at the ME's office was dealing with it.

Oh, well - I'll see if I can find a contact number for the Monroe County Sheriff's office.


ETA: I just left a message with the Monroe County Sheriff's office (734) 240-7550 . Let's see if this will get me anywhere.

 

[mtrooper]

Sorry Carl, I must have been in LALA land when I posted...I saw the question about the LE and cpmplely missed your post about the coroner. Better get some new reading glasses.

 

[CarlK90245]

Monroe County Sheriff's Office finally returned my call. He said that Cynthia Jane Anderson had been ruled out fairly early in the process.

As for a rule-out list, he has received many tips, but all but four were so off base that they did not go through the process. The official list of people that they have actually checked out through a verification process is only four names long. They are:

• Cynthia Jane Anderson
• Carolyn Sue Martin
• Kim Larrow
• Paulette Jaster

As is often the case, I was in bed when the call came in, so I didn't have my wits together to ask about Deanie Pyle Peters. But she probably falls in that too far off-base category.

It's a bit annoying that the ME would say that CJA has not been ruled out when she actually had been, but oh well - we have resolution on that submission now.

 

[carbuff]

Monroe County Sheriff's Office finally returned my call. He said that Cynthia Jane Anderson had been ruled out fairly early in the process.

As for a rule-out list, he has received many tips, but all but four were so off base that they did not go through the process. The official list of people that they have actually checked out through a verification process is only four names long. They are:

• Cynthia Jane Anderson
• Carolyn Sue Martin
• Kim Larrow
• Paulette Jaster

As is often the case, I was in bed when the call came in, so I didn't have my wits together to ask about Deanie Pyle Peters. But she probably falls in that too far off-base category.

It's a bit annoying that the ME would say that CJA has not been ruled out when she actually had been, but oh well - we have resolution on that submission now.

Might have happened under an earlier ME. It seems like record-keeping in LE is not what we would like...

 

[chaddylex]

Thanks Carl for getting in touch with them. I am glad they called you back. It makes me a little upset too that they couldn't have let you known about Cynthia Anderson from the get go...geez!


Ok now off to find out who this girl is! We can do it sleuths!

 

[CarlK90245]

I just went through the MP's again to try to find a match for this Jane Doe.


Elizabeth Theresa Bishop's height is a little off, but she looks spot-on like the reconstructions.

Elizabeth Theresa Bishop
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bishop_elizabeth.html

... and that plaid shirt in the background is a little bit tantalizing.

 

[LotsaLatte]

I noticed the plaid shirt in the photo second from right too and about jumped out of my seat. I hadn't noticed that you noted it under the photos until after I saw the shirt. The only thing I'm having a hard time with is the distance from Abilene, TX to MI. Any ideas on that?


ETA - I just looked at a timeline (link below) for Henry Lee Lucas at he did spend some time in Michigan wayyyyyyy back in 1957. He apparently had a half-sister living there. So it's possible that he spent more time there throughout his life. I have no idea if he is responsible for Elizabeth Theresa Bishop's disappearance (I read something about it at the link in your post) but I thought I'd just see what I could find. Hmmmm. So maybe you should submit Ms. Bishop as a possible. If it isn't her, well another person is ruled out.

Here is the link to Henry Lee Lucas timeline in case you're interested:
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/deranged/timelines/henry-lee-lucas.html

 

[LotsaLatte]

Here is a photo of the shirt found on the victim. I think it's probably faded from being in the water maybe?

 

[CarlK90245]

I noticed the plaid shirt in the photo second from right too and about jumped out of my seat. I hadn't noticed that you noted it under the photos until after I saw the shirt. The only thing I'm having a hard time with is the distance from Abilene, TX to MI. Any ideas on that?


ETA - I just looked at a timeline (link below) for Henry Lee Lucas at he did spend some time in Michigan wayyyyyyy back in 1957. He apparently had a half-sister living there. So it's possible that he spent more time there throughout his life. I have no idea if he is responsible for Elizabeth Theresa Bishop's disappearance (I read something about it at the link in your post) but I thought I'd just see what I could find. Hmmmm. So maybe you should submit Ms. Bishop as a possible. If it isn't her, well another person is ruled out.

Here is the link to Henry Lee Lucas timeline in case you're interested:
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/deranged/timelines/henry-lee-lucas.html

I'm not too worried about the long distance, as there is nothing in the circumstances to suggest that she was murdered at the time or place that she was last seen.

The height difference is what makes me more skeptical. The UID was not skeletal, so one would expect the height measurement (5'4") to be pretty accurate. Her height is listed as a range (5'6" to 5'7"), meaning that they don't have a precise height. One would think that she had to have been accurately measured somewhere (e.g., a driver's license). Maybe someone guessed. But a 2"-3" height difference compared to an intact body is a little excessive.

I'm a little doubtful about the HL Lucas connection. Lucas was confessing left and right to murders that he did commit, and many more that he didn't commit (and couldn't have committed). If he was involved in this one, why would he deny it?

 

[CarlK90245]

I just noticed that Elizabeth has blue eyes, and the UID has brown eyes. I should have spotted that earlier, but I guess it was late when I posted it.

Pretty good resemblance, but too many discrepancies for it to be her.

 

[carbuff]

I just noticed that Elizabeth has blue eyes, and the UID has brown eyes. I should have spotted that earlier, but I guess it was late when I posted it.

Pretty good resemblance, but too many discrepancies for it to be her.

Her eyes don't look blue in the photos. At all.

 

[Cymro]

The height difference is what makes me more skeptical. The UID was not skeletal, so one would expect the height measurement (5'4") to be pretty accurate. Her height is listed as a range (5'6" to 5'7"), meaning that they don't have a precise height.

If it's an estimated height, I think it's still possible - though definitely a long shot. I'm slightly above average height (6'0" to 6'1") which of course makes me significantly taller than most women and probably quite a bad witness for heights below 5'8" (or above 6'4" for that matter).

I've been this wrong before, but in the opposite direction. I once had a row from an old girlfriend because, when the subject of her height came up, I guessed she was about 5'4". She insisted that she was 5'7" and was quite upset about it. She was actually 5'6" when she registered with a doctor, as was made very clear to me.

 

[webrocket]

here is the Namus link for the UID:

https://identifyus.org/cases/2680

as one can see Dean Marie Pyle Peters has been ruled out. Cynthia Anderson is not on the list.

Cynthia Anderson is not in Namus. there is no indication in the Doe Network profile for Cynthia whether any DNA exists for her.

 

[CarlK90245]

here is the Namus link for the UID:

https://identifyus.org/cases/2680

as one can see Dean Marie Pyle Peters has been ruled out. Cynthia Anderson is not on the list.

Cynthia Anderson is not in Namus. there is no indication in the Doe Network profile for Cynthia whether any DNA exists for her.

Cynthia Anderson has been ruled out also. I was personally told by the Monroe County Sheriff's office that the following four persons had been looked at and ruled out.

Carolyn Sue Martin
Kim Larrow
Cynthia Jane Anderson
Paulette Jaster

Of course, this doesn't include those looked at by other agencies.

 

[webrocket]

thanks Carl. it would be nice if they updated Namus but I guess they do have more important things to do with their time.

 

[webrocket]

there are 16 rule outs listed at Namus but Cynthia Anderson is not one of them despite their excluding her by dentals (nor for that matter is Paulette Jaster):

Katherine Anderson 1954 Maryland
Lynn Bandringa 1945 California
Debra Cole 1969 Indiana
Carol Donn 1963 Florida
Peggy Houser 1962 Ohio
Tracy King 1960 Pennsylvania
Kim Larrow 1965 Michigan
Carolyn Martin 1957 Michigan
Deborah McCall 1963 Illinois
Barbara Monaco 1960 Virginia
Eleanor Parker 1962 Louisiana
Dean Pyle Peters 1966 Michigan
Michele Reidenbach 1964 Pennsylvania
Lucinda Schaefer 1962 California
Diane Schulte 1954 Idaho
Amy Yachimec 1968 Arizona

 

[CarlK90245]

It's pretty clear that you can't rely on the NamUs rule out page to tell you who has been ruled-out and who has not.

The NamUs rule-out lists on each UID's casefile tell you only the possible matches that the NamUs automated matching system has proposed, and have been subsequently ruled out. Most of these rule-outs would never be suggested in the first place by a human being.

It very rarely is a comprehensive list of who has actually been brought to their attention via other means (e.g., tips, detective work, etc.) and ruled out

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I don't know if this woman was ever reported "missing" in the way we think.

I'm wondering if she could have fallen off of a boat or pier or something. I wonder if it was treated as a boating/lake accident and not a missing persons case per se.

She was found on March 31. I checked the farmer's almanac records and March 30 and 31st 1982 were unseasonably warm here....a high in the 70's in March is pretty rare here...sometimes it snows here in April! Even so, in March, most people I know here don't have their boats in the water yet. Granted I'm 2 hours futher west on Lake Erie, but even so.

But It might be different on the islands. It might make sense if she went in the water near Put-In-Bay or maybe Middle Bass Island.

The UID was fully recovered, and her NamUs profile does not indicate any trauma, or any reason to think this was other than an accidental drowning. Also, her shirt being tied up like that and not wearing shoes makes me wonder if she was on a boat...