MI - Muslim flight attendant suspended for refusing to serve alcohol, 25 Aug 2015

[flourish]

Is an irrational fear of Velcro protected? If so, I have a former employee to apologize to. Lol

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't understand the problem with the book. Foreign writings? What is this, the communist scare? And did they say what the issue with the head scarf was? Safety or just "comfort of others?"

If the "foreign writings" were in Arabic it's a miracle she hasn't been shot by an air marshall.

JM-sarcastic-O

 

[katydid23]

I think the 'foreign writings' complaint reveals something else, besides just the refusal to serve alcohol. I know that my friend who works for TSA has always been nervous about some of the Muslim employees because they can skirt certain security procedures and may potentially pose a threat. There is a greater likelihood that a young Muslim might be persuaded to be an extremist than some of the other religions. It is not fair to lump all Muslims into that group of being a 'potential threat.' But it does make security officials nervous, to be sure. And I have to say that I do not blame them.

Just as I would be nervous if a fundamentalist Christian would be in charge of security for an abortion clinic, or similar analogies. It would bring up some concerns.

 

[flourish]

I think the 'foreign writings' complaint reveals something else, besides just the refusal to serve alcohol. I know that my friend who works for TSA has always been nervous about some of the Muslim employees because they can skirt certain security procedures and may potentially pose a threat. There is a greater likelihood that a young Muslim might be persuaded to be an extremist than some of the other religions. It is not fair to lump all Muslims into that group of being a 'potential threat.' But it does make security officials nervous, to be sure. And I have to say that I do not blame them.

Just as I would be nervous if a fundamentalist Christian would be in charge of security for an abortion clinic, or similar analogies. It would bring up some concerns.

Does the complaint reveal her intentions as more nefarious than adherence to religious tenants or does it reveal her co-workers possibly-unreasonable fears?

I get the nervousness, and I'm not arguing with you, katydid, just got me wondering.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well if it comes to that, I've got plenty of books with foreign writings.

Did she read her personal books on the flight? That might be a problem but simply being literate and owning a book is not a reason to terminate employment.

I wonder if it was a Quran.

 

[katydid23]

Does the complaint reveal her intentions as more nefarious than adherence to religious tenants or does it reveal her co-workers possibly-unreasonable fears?

I get the nervousness, and I'm not arguing with you, katydid, just got me wondering.

Those fears are possibly unreasonable. But I am not sure. If you look at the most recent incidents in air travel, MANY of them involve Islamic extremists. No one can possibly accuse her of being an extremist, obviously. But who is to say that her co-workers should not be concerned if she begins making lists of things she will not do because of her religion. I would be wondering because she would be able to possibly bring things onboard that a regular passenger would not be able to sneak with them.

 

[K_Z]

I read the phrase about the "book with foreign writing". IMO, the attorney worded that phrase very carefully. I wonder if the complaint by the co-worker FA had to do with the Muslim FA taking time on short flights to READ the book when she should have been doing work-related tasks. I doubt that any complaint that she merely "possessed" the book would be taken seriously by ExpressJet. That comment by the attorney, IMO, was an attempt to show prejudice. Without more information, I can't assume that any prejudice or discrimination on the part of the complaining FA is valid.

There is also the issue of the headscarf the attorney attempts to portray as a form of discrimination-- was the complaint that the muslim FA was not wearing an approved headscarf with her uniform? Were the colors/ patterns deliberately chosen to stand out? Surely ExpressJet allowed the headscarf, and just directed that it be something like a solid color that coordinated with her uniform. It's likely ExpressJet has other Muslim women in uniform (gate agents, etc) so they probably have a policy on headscarves while in uniform. That's my thought on that.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Well, with everything going on in this world today she is lucky to have a job anywhere that actually tried to work out a compromise with her. There are plenty of other people who might like to have her job. She knew what the job description entailed when she went to work for this airline. The job description didn't change; she did. So now a company should have to deal with this? IMO, heck no!

I don't care what religion she is. She should have graciously accepted a position on the ground that did not require her to serve alcohol. If she doesn't want that, then fire her. I am sick and tired of people who expect special privileges. I wonder if she imbibed before her conversion???

ExpressJet, please don't cave to people who feel they deserve special treatment because they suddenly decided two years ago to convert to anything!!! Sorry I am rambling on but this just absolutely pizzes me off!

MOO

 

[Dockins]

I'm very interested in this case. I'm trying to research Islamic law and interpretations. I have read in many places that a Muslim should not work where alcohol is served, even if not serving it. Also, a flight attendant has to clean up the alcohol cups, cans, etc. I'm curious as to how many people are watching this case, and the larger repercussions. Will we suddenly find that a large number of Muslims refusing to serve alcohol or pork? Or wash dishes that contained either? And what next? It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts. This is just one site I found with some answers. Can you pick and choose what you abide to or not? I don't know.
http://islamqa.info/en/96614

 

[jjenny]

Part of her job involves serving alcoholic drinks. But she refused to do it. What is reasonable for an employee to accommodate in these circumstances? Is it reasonable to make another attendant to do a job for two people? Lots of jobs don't require serving alcohol, why doesn't she look for one of those?

 

[bluesneakers]

Part of her job involves serving alcoholic drinks. But she refused to do it. What is reasonable for an employee to accommodate in these circumstances? Is it reasonable to make another attendant to do a job for two people? Lots of jobs don't require serving alcohol, why doesn't she look for one of those?

To me a reasonable accommodation would be "You can go work at the counter or as a customer service rep in our call center." Or find her some other position she would be qualified for that doesn't involve serving alcohol. If none of those choices are acceptable it's time to amicably part ways.

JMO.

 

[AliceInPain]

It happened in the UK, some woman claiming she was a muslim refused to let a customer at M&S buy a packet of sausages because her muslim hands were not allowed to touch pork.
Seriously. If you're in a job serving people, be prepared to touch weird things. Or apply for another job.
That goes for this woman too.
Your job is to serve people, you get paid. You don't, you get the sack.
What's the problem?

If the company want to keep her (I wouldn't, but yeah), they can put her in a position where she doesn't have to deal with western pork-eating alcohol-drinking peeps.

 

[sonjay]

It happened in the UK, some woman claiming she was a muslim refused to let a customer at M&S buy a packet of sausages because her muslim hands were not allowed to touch pork.
Seriously. If you're in a job serving people, be prepared to touch weird things. Or apply for another job.
That goes for this woman too.
Your job is to serve people, you get paid. You don't, you get the sack.
What's the problem?

If the company want to keep her (I wouldn't, but yeah), they can put her in a position where she doesn't have to deal with western pork-eating alcohol-drinking peeps.

That made me realize I've seen similar stories here in the U.S.

The Star Tribune reported this past week that some Muslim cashiers at local Targets had declined to scan pork products such as bacon because doing so would conflict with their religious beliefs. They would ask other cashiers to ring up such purchases, or sometimes customers would scan those items themselves, the newspaper reported.

Minneapolis-based Target Corp. has now offered its local Muslim cashiers who object to handling pork the option of wearing gloves while cashiering, shifting to other positions or transferring to other nearby stores.


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17665989/...ifts-muslims-who-wont-ring-pork/#.Ve8P86agqjw

Costco is being sued over that exact same thing:

The devout Muslim says he was working as a cashier's assistant at the Costco in Sunset Park Brooklyn in September of 2012 when pork came across the conveyor belt.

It's against his religious beliefs to touch either pork or alcohol.

Camara says after telling his managers this, they transferred him outside collecting the shopping carts.

http://abc7ny.com/religion/former-employee-suing-costco-for-religious-discrimination-/532866/

In the Costco one, it sounds to me like Costco accommodated him. I guess the devout Muslim thinks its his right to stand there at the cash register not ringing up people's purchases.

I'm sure there have been more cases. These are just two that popped up in a quick search.

 

[Donjeta]

Hm but if gloves help and you can still handle it because your actual hands aren't touching it, how come the plastic wrappings that the bacon comes in doesn't do the same job? Or the can/bottle the alcohol comes in?

If any cashier at any store would actually touch any actual pork without packaging it would be rather gross...

Yeah but wearing gloves is a good idea for everyone because all that money is kind of germy.

Dahir said a manager told him that was part of the job, so “I just put down my uniform and I left.”

He said it doesn’t matter if the pork product is packaged. “Even if you just sell it to someone, you break a promise to Allah,” he said.

 

[sonjay]

Hm but if gloves help and you can still handle it because your actual hands aren't touching it, how come the plastic wrappings that the bacon comes in doesn't do the same job? Or the can/bottle the alcohol comes in?

If any cashier at any store would actually touch any actual pork without packaging it would be rather gross...

Yeah but wearing gloves is a good idea for everyone because all that money is kind of germy.

Heh.... good point.

But just like the marriage license lady, I don't think it's about religious beliefs per se. It's about forcing the employer to bow to their demands.

According to a 2010 article in this business publication, there were over 10,000 EEOC claims files over the prior 10 years.
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20100919/ISSUE01/309199979

 

[Donjeta]

Islam teaches that pigs are unclean and eating pork is a sin, and some Muslims feel selling or handling pork is also forbidden because it would make them complicit in the sins of others.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17665989/...ifts-muslims-who-wont-ring-pork/#.Ve8ZZZcnKM1

If cashiers have the duty to avoid being complicit in customers' sins, it seems like it would limit the work far more than just ringing up ham sandwiches and beer. How about selling DVD's, books and magazines? Some of them might contain nudity, blaspheming, atheist thoughts or other sinful content. Can you sell matches? Someone might use them for arson. Oreos and french fries? Gluttony is a sin, according to some schools of thought. Make up, body building gear, push up bras and slimming underwear? Isn't it encouraging vanity? Condoms? Someone might use them while fornicating. Clothing? Swimming suits? Wouldn't you have to check it for modesty before agreeing to sell?

I think self service might be best to avoid these questions... that way everyone can take full adult responsibility for their own sins without dragging some poor cashier into it. (The store owners who get all the profits are probably screwed though.)

ETA: on second thought I'm not sure that being the cart boy would save you... if you collect the carts that people transported their sinful purchases in, aren't you STILL complicit in their sin? Some of that pork pays your wages...

 

[K_Z]

I have a question for any who know the answer.

ExpressJet placed CS on unpaid administrative leave Aug 25, and every article says she would be terminated after a year. Why the unpaid leave? And why was she not terminated right away? Is the admin leave (unpaid) to allow time for the employer's investigation, and for the due process to unfold? Time for the corporation to make sure the laws supported firing her?

The suspension sure sounds like "administrative leave pending termination", since it's unpaid.

CS didn't file her EEOC complaint until last week, so I don't think that had anything to do with it. I'm not sure and will have to check, but I think she may have also filed a federal discrimination lawsuit in the last week or so. (Possibly federal lawsuit because 2 states are involved?)

I'm assuming that the substance of the suspension is for the employee not performing job duties. (And I think there is very likely much more to it than just the issue of the serving of alcohol, as I said earlier.)

ExpressJet is headquartered in Atlanta, and CS was domiciled in Detroit. Does that have anything to do with the admin leave process (two different states involved)?

Why the long period of unpaid admin leave?

 

[K_Z]

I also saw this added bit in an article from a week ago-- BBM.

“They did state that the reason they were placing her on administrative leave was because of her refusal to serve alcohol, and that they no longer considered it to be a reasonable request,” Masri said.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...attendant-complaint-serving-alcohol/71535692/

So it seems ExpressJet is pursuing the "reasonable" issue, the undue burden that Gitana1 wrote about.

I still would be very interested to know if ExpressJet offered her another position in the company where she would not have to serve alcohol.

 

[Hez]

Refusal to receive vaccinations. This can put everyone in the hospital at risk, and especially the most vulnerable patients.

Insisting on wearing not just a hijab, or head scarf, but a full headpiece with only the eyes showing. For children, in particular, being able to see the person's face is important. For everyone, adults and children alike, being able to positively identify the person is important -- especially in a neonatal setting, with the security that's needed.

Refusal not merely to sedate a person of the opposite sex, but to touch the person at all. Or maybe they'll only provide care to a person of the opposite sex if another healthcare worker is present. Or maybe they'll provide some care, but not assist with toileting, or give a sponge bath.

Maybe they won't provide care to any patient they consider "unclean."

Maybe a dietary worker won't deliver meals that contain pork products.

Hoo boy.... the more I think about it, the more I'm agin this whole "accommodation" thing. Do your job, or find another one.

BBM - I totally agree,it's gone too far. It reminds me of this:

Christmas Party
December 1...To All Employees
I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will be held
on December 23rd at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue. There will be lots of
spiked eggnog and a small band will play traditional carols...feel free
to sing-along. And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as
Santa Claus to light the Christmas tree.
Exchanging gifts among employees can be done at this time. Please
remember to keep gifts to the agreed $10 limit.
Merry Christmas to you and yours,
Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 2...To All Employees
In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish
employees. We recognize that Hanukkah is an important holiday and
often coincides with Christmas (although not this year). However, from
now on we're calling this party our Holiday Party. The same policy also
applies to employees who are celebrating Kwanzaa at this time. There
will be no tree or Christmas carols sung.
Happy holidays to you and yours.
Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 3...To All Employees
Regarding the anonymous note I received from a member of Alcoholics
Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table, I'm happy to accommodate
your request but please remember that if I put a sign on the table that
reads "AA Only" you won't be anonymous any more.
In addition, we'll no longer be having a gift exchange because union
members feel that $10 is too much money.
Patti Lewis, Human Resources Director
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 7...To All Employees
I have arranged for members of Overeaters Anonymous to sit farthest
away from the dessert table and for pregnant members to sit closest to
the restrooms. Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not
have to sit with gays; each group will have its own table. And, yes,
there will be a flower arrangement for the gay men's table.
Happy now?
Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 9...To All Employees
People! People! Nothing sinister was intended by wanting our CEO to
play Santa Claus. Even if the anagram for "Santa" does happen to be
"Satan." There is no evil connation to our own little "man in a red
suit."
Patti Lewis, Human Resources Director
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 10...To All Employees
Vegetarians! I've had it with you people. We're holding this party at
Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue whether you like it or not. You can just sit
at the table farthest from the "Grill of Death" as you call it, and
you'll get salad bar only including hydroponics tomatoes. Tomatoes have
feelings too, you know. They scream when you slice them. I can hear
them now. I hope you have a rotten holiday. Drive drunk and die, you
hear me?
The ***** from Hell
------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 14...To All Employees
I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery
from her stress-related illness. I'll continue to forward your cards to
her at the sanitarium. In the meantime management has decided to cancel
the Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with
full pay.
Terri Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director

 

[Hez]

Are sandwiches and meals served on these flights too? I'm interested because so often on flights, ham or pork is served in one form or another, yet there's no mention of a refusal to serve food? I'd have thought such a strict adherence to Islam would forbid the handling/serving of any pork products too?

BBM - Well since it took her a year after converting to discover that alcohol is forbidden, perhaps she hasn't stumbled upon this important fact yet either. :facepalm: