MI - Nevaeh Buchanan, 5, Monroe, 24 May 2009 - Body found - #5

[panthera]

I think we also have a burned rubber glove and a beer can they have located the store which sold it.

One thought rolling through my mind was the beer can being used to pour water from the river onto the concrete. They need to get water to powder somehow.

Then we have a shovel needed to dig the shallow grave. There has to be cut marks in the dirt somewhere, maybe already cast in concrete. Thinking out loud...

They would've needed something much larger than a beer can to water down that much concrete. MOO

 

[scandi]

I think we also have a burned rubber glove and a beer can they have located the store which sold it.

One thought rolling through my mind was the beer can being used to pour water from the river onto the concrete. They need to get water to powder somehow.

Then we have a shovel needed to dig the shallow grave. There has to be cut marks in the dirt somewhere, maybe already cast in concrete. Thinking out loud...

I don't think they intended to move the body either. It seems to be a hastily made make-shift grave with the concrete as a marker. If anything the concrete would draw attention to it, imo. :waitasec:

So do you guys then think this was a disorganized killer as opposed to organized. He seems to be somewhere between to me by having the Means for the disposal at hand.

The beer can being used for water in making concrete is a very good one Peliman.

Still trying to think of what LE found that JB might be able to ID, could it be something to dig with? Maybe something they had borrowed from her before and was in their car? Would she even have a shovel tho? ??

I am just racking my brain to see what could connect her to the burial scene.

 

[scandi]

They would've needed something much larger than a beer can to water down that much concrete. MOO

That would mean there had to be a bucket, right? Maybe they found one there and for some reason they thought Jennifer could ID it! More likely than her having a spade or shovel.

I wonder if that dirt is rocky, hard packed dirt or sandy and would be easy to dig in?

 

[fortytwo]

I completely agree with you about the lack of intelligence, however sometimes the best place to hide something is right out in the open. The perp may have thought that people might notice the concrete but they wouldn't think much about it. "Hmmm....look someone dumped some left over concrete here. What a jerk." He likely did not expect the concrete to crack and never imagined that someone would deliberately attempt to break it up to see what was underneath.

I also agree that any avid fisherman driving past would instantly recognize that spot as a fishing area. It's some kind of sixth sense or something.

ETA: Another thought - this could be someone who regularly fishes in that spot and who thought it would be nice to have a nice concrete slab to stand or sit on rather than the slimy river bank. Might have thought other fishermen would be grateful too.

Uggg!!!

I can't account for why, but I do think they probably knew the spot. The 'comfort zone' thing? I don't see it being picked randomly for disposal.

It's not the kind of place that someone who doesn't fish is likely to frequent though.

My guess would be an urban/suburban type whose idea of 'isolated', 'rural', and 'inaccessible' would be a personal favorite drinking (umm ... 'fishing') spot less than 10 minutes from downtown.

The fact that its probably many other peoples' favorite apparently didn't occur to him.

Hence "stupid".

(BTW: My mysterious fisherman's 'sixth sense' was probably supplemented by the well used parking spot and heavily traveled path over the embankment. )

 

[Chilly Willy]

So do you guys then think this was a disorganized killer as opposed to organized. He seems to be somewhere between to me by having the Means for the disposal at hand.

The beer can being used for water in making concrete is a very good one Peliman.

Still trying to think of what LE found that JB might be able to ID, could it be something to dig with? Maybe something they had borrowed from her before and was in their car? Would she even have a shovel tho? ??

I am just racking my brain to see what could connect her to the burial scene.

Where can I find the information about JB being taken to the burial scene to ID something? When did this happen? I doubt LE would have left anything there after they released the scene and then brought her back later to identify it.

 

[Peliman]

The concrete was poured dry out of the bag according to reports and water was poured over it. That's not an uncommon way to use Quik-crete. The beer can was under the concrete, therefore could not have been used to carry the river water. Aside from that, a beer can only holds 12 oz. It would have taken about a gazillion trips.

If they came prepared with Quik-crete and a shovel, they probably also had a bucket.

I'm not sure they were that well prepared or they would have had more concrete. They didn't have to carry water since the burial site was right next to the river. They just need to dump several beer cans full and stick it under with a rubber glove. Are rubber gloves common among concrete workers?

It may have been a work truck hauling left over construction material. If it turns out what you say, we're missing a bucket and a shovel. <speculation>

 

[scandi]

Where can I find the information about JB being taken to the burial scene to ID something? When did this happen? I doubt LE would have left anything there after they released the scene and then brought her back later to identify it.

I read that in a link soon after we heard the body had been found.

I'll try to find it. Be back. It was just one sentence and that is all it said BTW.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I'm not sure they were that well prepared or they would have had more concrete. They didn't have to carry water since the burial site was right next to the river. They just need to dump several beer cans full and stick it under with a rubber glove. Are rubber gloves common among concrete workers?

It may have been a work truck hauling left over construction material. If it turns out what you say, we're missing a bucket and a shovel. <speculation>

Why do you think that the perp didn't take the shovel and bucket with him when he finished the job? What would be the purpose of pushing the beer can under the concrete? The rubber glove was found partially burned in a fire pit. I doubt the perp lit a fire while he was trying to avoid being noticed while burying a body. The glove likely was already there, left by another fisherman.

 

[cleo612]

That would mean there had to be a bucket, right? Maybe they found one there and for some reason they thought Jennifer could ID it! More likely than her having a spade or shovel.

I wonder if that dirt is rocky, hard packed dirt or sandy and would be easy to dig in?

Maybe they took Jennifer there to see if she had ever been to that spot before.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I read that in a link soon after we heard the body had been found.

I'll try to find it. Be back. It was just one sentence and that is all it said BTW.

Thanks, Scandi. I'll look for it too. It was reported that JB was taken in for more questioning after Navaeh was found, but I haven't heard anything about her being taken to the scene.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Maybe they took Jennifer there to see if she had ever been to that spot before.

That makes sense.

 

[panthera]

That would mean there had to be a bucket, right? Maybe they found one there and for some reason they thought Jennifer could ID it! More likely than her having a spade or shovel.

I wonder if that dirt is rocky, hard packed dirt or sandy and would be easy to dig in?

I've been watching a repeat of JVM's show from after the remains were found and getting a good visual of where Nevaeh was found. I'm thinking the perp probably parked right there above where she was found and pretended to be fishing while digging the grave, etc. He could've used a short handled shovel, imo. Right next to the river, I'd think the dirt would be somewhat sandy. MOO

 

[panthera]

Where can I find the information about JB being taken to the burial scene to ID something? When did this happen? I doubt LE would have left anything there after they released the scene and then brought her back later to identify it.

I must be missing something ~ why would LE take her there? I thought they went to her apartment. MOO

 

[fortytwo]

The concrete was poured dry out of the bag according to reports and water was poured over it. That's not an uncommon way to use Quik-crete. The beer can was under the concrete, therefore could not have been used to carry the river water. Aside from that, a beer can only holds 12 oz. It would have taken about a gazillion trips.

If they came prepared with Quik-crete and a shovel, they probably also had a bucket.

If our concrete expert(s?) mixed to design they would have needed about 10 beer can trips per 90 lb. bag of pre-mix.

I have found myself increasingly prone to unconsciously assume plural perps. I notice you seem to be doing the same.

I wonder why that is?

 

[daisy7]

Would the perp have needed water for the quickrete since it was so close to the river?

I and my 4 DS volunteer here at least once a month building wheelchair ramps. We rarely put water in the quickrete we use for the posts, cuz the ground already has so much water in it.

Don't worry, a contractor leads us in our efforts and I'm no longer allowed to use the nail gun, but my 10 yo DS is.

 

[Chilly Willy]

If our concrete expert(s?) mixed to design they would have needed about 10 beer can trips per 90 lb. bag of pre-mix.

I have found myself increasingly prone to unconsciously assume plural perps. I notice you seem to be doing the same.

I wonder why that is?

The Quik-crete site says one gallon of water to 50lbs. of mix, so I'm figuring close to 20 cans. I can't think of any reason why the perp(s) would shove the can back down into the grave afterwards.

I'm not assuming plural perps although it's a possibility. I actually think it was just one guy.

 

[Peliman]

Why do you think that the perp didn't take the shovel and bucket with him when he finished the job? What would be the purpose of pushing the beer can under the concrete? The rubber glove was found partially burned in a fire pit. I doubt the perp lit a fire while he was drying to avoid being noticed while burying a body. The glove likely was already there, left by another fisherman.

I do hope the perp took the shovel and bucket if used. I think they can match up the dig markings to the shovel, not to mention trace dirt evidence. Same with a bucket, trace evidence. I hope the items have been seized and sent to the crime lab.

The reason I even mention the beer can as transport is because I've done it setting poles. It was tough obtaining buckets on a regular basis. The buckets got used for other things when full bags weren't used, like hauling loose/dry concrete from one location to another without spewing it all over the work truck or a trash can. I'd lose buckets for days because concrete set-up inside the bucket and I needed new ones.

Post hole digger down 4 ft., set the pole and level, dry concrete poured down the hole, cans and drink cups used to pour water in the hole on top the dry concrete. Let sit for 6 hours and hit it with a car.

IMO, to discount the rubber glove is premature until forensics are done and the purpose of pushing the beer can under the concrete would be perceived concealment of evidence. JMO

 

[Melanie]

Would the perp have needed water for the quickrete since it was so close to the river?

I and my 4 DS volunteer here at least once a month building wheelchair ramps. We rarely put water in the quickrete we use for the posts, cuz the ground already has so much water in it.

Don't worry, a contractor leads us in our efforts and I'm no longer allowed to use the nail gun, but my 10 yo DS is.

Okay, so I see no use from a beer can. Couldn't the perp just stand in the water and pour water over the victim (ie, splash with hands)? If NB was so close to the bank, I see there's no reason why the perp couldn't have done this.

Best,

Mel

 

[Chilly Willy]

Would the perp have needed water for the quickrete since it was so close to the river?

I and my 4 DS volunteer here at least once a month building wheelchair ramps. We rarely put water in the quickrete we use for the posts, cuz the ground already has so much water in it.

Don't worry, a contractor leads us in our efforts and I'm no longer allowed to use the nail gun, but my 10 yo DS is.

We've installed posts the same way, or run the hose into them after dumping in the quickcrete when the ground was dry. I think being that this was a larger area and spread out mainly at ground level rather than underground, water would have been needed

 

[Chilly Willy]

I guess I'm just not understanding why people are so unwilling to believe that someone intending to bury a body, and equipped with a 90lb bag of concrete mix, a shovel, and the body of course, would also have a bucket with them.