MI - Three siblings in juvenile detention for contempt, Pontiac, 9 July 2015

[wendiesan]

edited for space

BTW--I just saw a clip indicating that the kids have been released?

Yes. After the children's neighbours and friends drew national and international attention to the case. I think the timing was significant.

 

[SophieRose]

It seems that one very important fact, IMO, that was listed in the very first post of this thread is being overlooked or ignored. Father has SUPERVISED visitation. There has to be a reason why his visits have to be supervised.

As a child of divorced parents that was forced to spend time with a mother that clearly was more concerned with her own life and whatever male was in the picture at the time, I know that you can not force a "happy" relationship between parent and child. I also had to go to court to explain to the judge who I wanted to live with because my mother was fighting my dad for custody, even though she was absent completely for over a year after telling me that I was just staying with my dad "for the summer". If the kids don't want to spend time with their father, I feel that he has done something or said something to them to cause this. No matter what the mother may say to them at 15 the oldest knows what is true and what is not.

The father ruined any chance he may of had of reconnecting with his kids when he decided that the trip to Israel was more important than spending time with his kids. He left them in a juvie detention hall for spite, or so it seems. And if the judge really did at one time work with the father's lawyer, she should have never been a part of the case to begin with.

MOO

I think the supervised visitation was because the father has lived in Israel until recently and the mother said he was a flight risk.

 

[MyBelle]

I think the supervised visitation was because the father has lived in Israel until recently and the mother said he was a flight risk.

If I was in the father's shoes I would request supervised visitation in order to have a witness to refute the inevitable false allegations that I'm sure will continue to be lobbed by the crazy mother behind the curtain.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

I think the supervised visitation was because the father has lived in Israel until recently and the mother said he was a flight risk.

When exactly did he move back to US and did he ever? Right after the hearing he went to Israel. I believe his second wife resides in Israel. He works at least some of the time in Israel.

 

[Margo/Mom]

When exactly did he move back to US and did he ever? Right after the hearing he went to Israel. I believe his seocond wife resides in Israel. He works at least some of the time in Israel.

I gather the father lives in Israel--as did the whole family at one point. This case has been ongoing apparently for five years or more. Dad had requested that the children live with him in Israel but was denied by the court. There are references to Mom's earlier refusal to allow planned visits or attend court appointments.

When the level of hostility between two adults reaches the point that they are relying on the court to make basic custody arrangements, it certainly does not look good for one of the parties to refuse to cooperate.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Yes. After the children's neighbours and friends drew national and international attention to the case. I think the timing was significant.

Sounds like it was more a function of the parties and their attorneys and the GAL being able to reach an agreement. The GAL has been pretty insistent on keeping the kids away from mom. It looks like the 2 week camp is just a shift to a cushier location. And no indication what happens after that.

 

[MyBelle]

When exactly did he move back to US and did he ever? Right after the hearing he went to Israel. I believe his second wife resides in Israel. He works at least some of the time in Israel.

Could it be that his second wife is just like the defendant and his first wife and she's also a citizen of Israel? All these plates of spaghetti the mother keeps throwing at the wall do not seem to be sticking. Perhaps her attorney should retreat and change the key message points because her client is really lookin' looney.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

Here is more information about 2010 incident.

"A scheduled visit with their father devolved into two of the children being locked in a car to protect themselves from him. The third child avoided him while perched atop a piece of playground equipment and later claimed that the father threatened to kill him if he did not get down."

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...ion-is-issue-in-bloomfield-hills-divorce-case

 

[KaaBoom]

How should the court respond to 8 and 9 year olds who refuse to do what a judge tells them to do? Particularly after their custodial parent has also told them, and a court-appointed attorney has laid out for them the consequences of refusing?

The court should respect their wishes and say, Sorry father, they don't want to see you. Thats what most reasonable judges would do.

 

[KaaBoom]

Looks more like a school than a jail to me!

Really? With a 15 foot fence and the "students" locked in cells? The fact is they are locked in, and that makes it a jail. Even the judge called it a jail.

 

[KaaBoom]

The children have been allowed out to go to summer camp--cost to be shared by the parents:

"Attorneys appointed to represent each child said their clients reported good treatment at Children's Village, but wanted to return home to their mom. The parents’ attorneys and the children’s court-appointed guardian ad litem, William Lanset, agreed that the children should be taken out of the center.”

Translation: Well, jail didn't work. They still don't want to talk to their father. So lets get them out of there and try something else.

Like most any reasonably intelligent person couldn't have predicted that outcome.

 

[KaaBoom]

When exactly did he move back to US and did he ever? Right after the hearing he went to Israel. I believe his second wife resides in Israel. He works at least some of the time in Israel.

The father lives in Israel with his new wife and baby.

 

[jjenny]

So who exactly alienated the children? Father accepted a job in Israel, his wife didn't want to go back to Israel.
She had her own career to consider (she is an MD). Then there is an incident in 2010, when they did go for a visit, that didn't end well, with one of the children climbing atop playground equipment to escape the father, and the other two locking themselves in the car. And since that incident, children didn't want to meet with the father.
Perhaps this incident looms bigger in their minds than it actually was, but regardless, whose fault is it that children don't want to meet with the father? Seems kind of simplistic to blame it all on the wife.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Here is more information about 2010 incident.

"A scheduled visit with their father devolved into two of the children being locked in a car to protect themselves from him. The third child avoided him while perched atop a piece of playground equipment and later claimed that the father threatened to kill him if he did not get down."

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...ion-is-issue-in-bloomfield-hills-divorce-case

This was apparently the same incident in which Mom told the kids to call 911 and report that she was being pushed around. Now looking at the fact pattern, and considering the animosity between the parents, there are certainly multiple explanations possible. One of the kids (5 years ago the oldest would have been 10 years old) was on top of a piece of playground equipment, refusing to come down, allegedly for a time out. And the father by his admission physically removed him. The others locked themselves in the car--at mom's direction?--and were told to call 911. Maybe when police arrived they erred in the direction of the dad. Certainly they would look for injuries, and would listen to the accounts of all parties. And maybe they made the best call based on what they saw. Clearly these kids are acting in defiance of any authority on the part of their father--and this has carried over to defiance of the court. It still troubles me that the GAL has been unable to gain their confidence. It remains troubling that the two youngest preferred removal from their mother to a very carefully supervised lunch with their father. Clearly these are either pathologically defiant children, or they are convinced of some great loss tied to even speaking to their father.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Translation: Well, jail didn't work. They still don't want to talk to their father. So lets get them out of there and try something else.

Like most any reasonably intelligent person couldn't have predicted that outcome.

While I do think that the judge hoped that the threat of jail might put the fear of God into the kids--and therefore be preventative--the actual placement accomplished two things. One is that it removed contact with mom--who apparently has her own history of non-cooperation. The second is that it established the authority of the court. Sending the kids to camp accomplished something as well. It maintained both of the above, while bringing together the various adults in an alternative agreement. Of course--it is only 2 weeks, and something more permanent will have to be arranged.

 

[jjenny]

Neighbors described children as well behaved. When they were 'incarcerated" they were described as well behaved. Seems like "bad" behavior only comes out when they are being forced to meet with their father.
In my opinion, father needs to let them be. It's not good for them to be dragged into court and to be forced to do something they don't want to do. Maybe he can try communicate with them through letters. I don't think children being removed from their mother and put in juvenile detention is going to help them to feel better about their father.
Father has a new wife and a new child. If you ask me, father needs to concentrate on that family so the same thing doesn't happen again.
It's like Solomon story about two parents claiming the child belongs to them, and Solomon saying he will split the baby in two.

 

[SophieRose]

The father lives in Israel with his new wife and baby.

The father has or will be moving to Michigan, in same town as ex.

 

[TorisMom003]

The GAL is an idiot. The kids tapped their feet on the floor so the GAL assumes that the children are communicating with each other in morse code? Really? Perhaps they were nervous or anxious. The children were huddled in a corner all three together like they were part of the Manson cult? Really? Perhaps the children have been put through more than enough of adults being the "bad guys" that they only trust one another. Sometimes it astounds me how stupid people can really be.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

The father has or will be moving to Michigan, in same town as ex.

He lives and works in Israel most of the time.

"Tsimhoni, a General Motors engineer, lives most of the year in Israel."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../children-detained-rejecting-father/29979759/

 

[SophieRose]

He lives and works in Israel most of the time.

"Tsimhoni, a General Motors engineer, lives most of the year in Israel."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../children-detained-rejecting-father/29979759/

He works for GM and is being transferred to Michigan.