MI - Three siblings in juvenile detention for contempt, Pontiac, 9 July 2015

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  • #701
I wonder how she is getting copies of all the court documents?

I thought it was all supposed to be sealed?

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I believe that the actual court filings remain in the public record and that certain reports, medical records, evaluations and the like (essentially the kids' personal information) have been ordered sealed.

My personal reading (and I invite any attorneys to correct me if I am wrong) is that attorneys at times make use of the public records process to release a variety of things--whether or not they are actually pertinent or admissible in court. I first saw it in the Rifqa Bary custody case (Florida courts). The self-appointed attorney for Rifqa (the first attorney appointed for her parents revealed that John Stemberger just showed up on the day of the first court hearing claiming to be Rifqa's attorney--questionable since there is no way he could have seen her at that time in order to get her assent), put together a long and rambling screed supposedly linking the family's mosque to known terrorists, and further suggesting that mosque officials were telliing Rifqa's parents to "deal with her" or they would. On the face this was all unsubstantiated gobbledy-gook and no judge would have allowed its inclusion in proceedings. However, attaching it to a motion made it a part of the public record, fueling flames being ardently fanned by a large collection of wackos online and elsewhere.

I saw it in use again, although slightly differently, during the Trayvon Martin trial. Through the discovery process the Zimmerman team was able to claim a right to a number of wholly irrelevant items (such as Trayvon's school records) that probably could never be entered in court as evidence of anything pertinent. But, it did make them public records and put them out on the internet (aided at times by internal leaks prior to discovery) where they were helpful in smearing the victim and polluting the jury pool.

In this case there does appear to be some attempted use of public opinion, and certain attachments to filings seem to be more for the purpose of inflaming the cheerleaders than any evidentiary value. One example is an affidavit in which Mom relates her objections to a "parenting time assessor" in something of a rant that would get immediately shut down in court. Interestingly, the actual report of the assessor is not attached to any filings and therefore unavailable to the public (appropriately I would hold). Following a March allegation of "abuse" (refuted by the parenting supervisor who was present), we have the inclusion of an ER report (essentially recording that child presents with Mom saying that child was injured by Father, x-rays negative for fracture, no evidence of bruising, child reports pain and limited range of motion. Conclusion: internal contusion from non-accidental injury. Report made to CPS), but rather than the investigative report from THIS incident, attached is the investigative report from a closed case five years earlier, in which there was a finding that the father threatened the children. I suspect this was wholly intentional--including the ER report as an attachment, but omitting the related CPS investigation report (which likely reported a strong suspicion that Mom had invented the whole thing) and substituting another unrelated report. The judge ain't gonna buy that. But, the public might.

In any case--much as I like to see the actual documents, it is appropriate that kids NOT have all their personal, medical and psych history made available. I also think that there were some contacts (possibly threats) made to the camp, that certainly would justify some clamping down on records.
 
  • #702
That actually makes more sense than what I was thinking lol!

I hope when the 90 days are up, the dad has been able to establish a strong bond with these poor kids...


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  • #703
I wonder how she is getting copies of all the court documents?

I thought it was all supposed to be sealed?

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Went back to the docs site today and see that the Judge did order the "protective separation" as Dad had requested. If Mom violates by going to their school, hanging around the Dad's residence or the car the kids are in, or attempts to call or skyp the Judge may extend beyond the original 90 days requested.

I really hope that she is putting in some serious therapy time. I have never seen this as an issue of Mom OR Dad, but rather granting the kids some permission and freedom from Love Mom/Hate Dad or Love Dad/Hate Mom choice that they seem to believe they are faced with. But I have evolved serious doubts about the amount of support Mom is able to give to the possibility of the kids acknowledging both parents. Based on her historical behaviors, I really don't think she is capable--without some serious intervention.
 
  • #704
Went back to the docs site today and see that the Judge did order the "protective separation" as Dad had requested. If Mom violates by going to their school, hanging around the Dad's residence or the car the kids are in, or attempts to call or skyp the Judge may extend beyond the original 90 days requested.

I really hope that she is putting in some serious therapy time. I have never seen this as an issue of Mom OR Dad, but rather granting the kids some permission and freedom from Love Mom/Hate Dad or Love Dad/Hate Mom choice that they seem to believe they are faced with. But I have evolved serious doubts about the amount of support Mom is able to give to the possibility of the kids acknowledging both parents. Based on her historical behaviors, I really don't think she is capable--without some serious intervention.
If she's anything like my stepsons mom, she'll violate the court order in a heartbeat...and blame the dad when she gets in trouble for it.

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  • #705
If she's anything like my stepsons mom, she'll violate the court order in a heartbeat...and blame the dad when she gets in trouble for it.

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I do think that the woman has some issues. She has already been sent to jail for defying court orders (apparently the county lock-up let her out because they were full, so she got off with community service). And disappearing from the home in Israel (with the kids) certainly smells bad--particularly in light of statements she has made to law enforcement on several occasions that Dad had never behaved violently towards her or the kids--prior to her leaving. At the very least, this is a woman who tends to believe her own hype.

I don't know if she is a full-fledged narcissist, or just in deep denial about any and all circumstances surrounding the divorce (one police report, when Dad called them during an incident after they were living separately but not divorced, says that Dad reported she had an affair and they were dealing with the aftermath). But she has clearly shown herself to be a master at defying authority and making herself the center of attention.

What strikes me as very sad, in following this across various FB pages is the level of animosity directed towards both parents by various sides. There seems to be a lot of baggage being toted by people who grew up in divorce situations, as well adults who are divorced. Lot of black-white thinking: Dad is a demon vs Mom is a demon. And judges, GALs, CPS, opposing attorneys, fuggedaboutit! We almost seem to be a culture in pain.
 
  • #706
What strikes me as very sad, in following this across various FB pages is the level of animosity directed towards both parents by various sides. There seems to be a lot of baggage being toted by people who grew up in divorce situations, as well adults who are divorced. Lot of black-white thinking: Dad is a demon vs Mom is a demon. And judges, GALs, CPS, opposing attorneys, fuggedaboutit! We almost seem to be a culture in pain.

I agree with you for the most part. It's hard for me to understand why people are so quick to pick a side in this tragic situation. That said, when the judge sent the kids to juvenile detention, while the father took a trip back to Israel, I think that many reasonable people could conclude from that that the judge and the father do not really have the best interest of the children at heart.

I also think it sets an incredibly bad precedent, for a court to ignore the claims of a child (rightfully or wrongfully) that a parent has abused them, and send that child back to live with that parent. Personally I'm not comfortable with that situation. I have to wonder how the people who support the father would feel if the next news story we hear, is that the father just killed himself and the children. It would not be the first time that something like that has happened. Thats a chance that I'm not willing to take. I guess some people are.
 
  • #707
I agree with you for the most part. It's hard for me to understand why people are so quick to pick a side in this tragic situation. That said, when the judge sent the kids to juvenile detention, while the father took a trip back to Israel, I think that many reasonable people could conclude from that that the judge and the father do not really have the best interest of the children at heart.

I also think it sets an incredibly bad precedent, for a court to ignore the claims of a child (rightfully or wrongfully) that a parent has abused them, and send that child back to live with that parent. Personally I'm not comfortable with that situation. I have to wonder how the people who support the father would feel if the next news story we hear, is that the father just killed himself and the children. It would not be the first time that something like that has happened. Thats a chance that I'm not willing to take. I guess some people are.

I believe that there are some facts in need of correction here.

The most serious is the supposition that the court has ignored claims of abuse. There have been two instances in which abuse/maltreatment have been alleged. The first is a rather confusing set of circumstances in a park in which the claims are that he locked 2 of the children in the car (which even with child-protective locks is an impossibility--front doors always open), that he threatened them, and that he engaged in a shoving match with their mother when she arrived (after advising the kids to call 911 because they were frightened). Nothing ever came of the allegations of shoving--basically a he-said-she-said situation with no evidence. Mom DID initiate a protective order--which by my understanding would have had less stringent requirements with regards to evidence. My understanding is that it was never completed (and therefore denied), although she has supporters that the judge simply denied it out of meanness.

End of the day, CPS substantiated threats--based on interviews with two of the kids (one of the kids led off the interview with the interesting comment that sometimes he forgets things). The third child (age 4 at the time) was not willing to be interviewed. Following a fair amount of back and forth with multiple parties already involved with the family as a result of the divorce process, CPS deem the risk level for both Mom and Dad to be "low"--and closed the case. However, at this point, far from ignoring the incident, the court, acting on the recommendation of the GAL instituted supervised visitation for Dad. Mom selected the parenting supervisor. This supervisor reports that over the course of 5 years of supervised visitation that he never saw Dad behave inappropriately. And this would include during the most recent allegation--which occured DURING supervised visitation and to which he was a witness. His report, as a matter of fact, of the visit is heartbreaking. Having arrived at a point of ongoing frustration with multiple venues and activities for Dad's visits--and all kinds of pre-planning about how Mom was to drop the kids off and leave--during which three children refused ALL levels on engagement from eating food purchased by Dad, to making eye contact, to getting out of the car at the zoo--a visit was scheduled at Dad's residence, and with only one of the children. The supervisor describes the child clinging to Mom's hand to prevent her leavinig. He describes Dad removing the child's hand from Mom and holding him in a bear hug until Mom left. Then he goes on to describe the child collapsing in tears in the hallway by the door. The tears continued throughout the visit, which was likely about an hour long. He describes the Dad attempting to comfort the child, speaking softly and telling him that he loved him and that he was very sorry that the child felt so badly. He brought tissues and water. He brought books and sat with the child reading to him. And this continued throughout the visit.

The next day Mom took the kid to the ER claiming that Daddy hurt him. Mom describes the events of leaving quite differently--saying that Dad held the kid's hands over his head, pinned against the wall and kneed him in the chest. X-rays revealed nothing. The child reported pain and limited range of motion of his arm. Conclusion--subcutaneous bruising from non-accidental injury. Not the ER doc's fault. He has to work with what he's been given. Referred to CPS for investigation. Interesting item. Mom refused several scheduled visitations following this, which spurred a show-cause filing with the court. Mom's response included the ER report, but instead of the current CPS investigation he attorney appended the 5 year old investigation. The recent one has never been shared. I can only guess that their assessment--based on the widely conflicting report from the parenting supervisor (and we don't know exactly how/what the kid reported when Mom was not there to prompt) that the accusation was a bogus invention for the purpose of moving Dad further out of the picture.

But--like the judge--I do not see children of abuse here. I see children of divorce--confused by a situation of divided loyalties. And--like the judge--I have known kids who have experienced abuse/neglect from a parent.
 
  • #708
I don't generally expect much from Yahoo articles, but this one actually has some depth to it in looking at not only this particular case, but also the broader topic of appropriate responses to heal damaged relationships between parents and children in families affected by divorce.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-controversial-therapy-thats-shaping-custody-128797596692.html

One of the FB pages is all excited about a court hearing--but I cannot tell exactly when (may have been today), or to decide what.
 
  • #709
I don't generally expect much from Yahoo articles, but this one actually has some depth to it in looking at not only this particular case, but also the broader topic of appropriate responses to heal damaged relationships between parents and children in families affected by divorce.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-controversial-therapy-thats-shaping-custody-128797596692.html

One of the FB pages is all excited about a court hearing--but I cannot tell exactly when (may have been today), or to decide what.
Good article!

I'm sure the after affects of the court hearing will be known...as soon as they think they can "let the cat out of the bag".

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  • #710
Can you imagine the cost(s) of this case? Who wins? The attorneys.
 
  • #711
Can you imagine the cost(s) of this case? Who wins? The attorneys.

The person with the most money wins. The mother is broke. Thats why she lost custody of her kids. What does the father care how much it costs? He is rich anyway. The American justice system at it's finest.
 
  • #712
"In these therapies, the children do not give any form of consent, their autonomy is disregarded, and privileges are withheld until they comply with the program expectations. In the view of many child psychologists this is more akin to a brainwashing prison camp, than a therapy program...Coercion plays no part in [a successful therapeutic program] and delays meaningful and lasting reunification even if the children show surface compliance.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hope-loudon/tsimhoni-children-placed-_b_8119428.html
 
  • #713
The person with the most money wins. The mother is broke. Thats why she lost custody of her kids. What does the father care how much it costs? He is rich anyway. The American justice system at it's finest.

Well, she hasn't lost custody yet--or run up a white flag, either. New filing from her legal team this week, and her mother has hired attorneys as well to request an appointment as next friend.

If she ultimately loses custody, or becomes the non-residential parent, I think it is because she has managed to shoot herself in the foot through a pattern of disregarding legal advice that she must have been given, thumbing her nose at the court repeatedly (she had to be ordered to actually show up at court hearings) and generally being unsupportive of her ex-husband's involvement in the children's lives. She may not have actually ever told the children not to talk to their father, or eat food he ordered for them in a restaurant, or said bad things about him in their presence (although we really cannot know the full scope of what happens between Mom and kids); but here are plenty of ways to accomplish the same thing. Such as telling the kids when they were in the park with Dad to call 911--which I consider to have been an extreme over-reaction to what was most likely kids misbehaving and being dealt with by Dad. Playing Mom against Dad is pretty common. Happens all the time. In most families it doesn't result in calling the cops. Negative feelings and behaviors towards Dad have been identified, nurtured and encouraged over time, whether it is by ordering the kids food for them (so they don't have to eat anything Daddy orders), or NOT setting appropriate behavioral limits when Dad is supposed to pick them up at school (think they had any at-home consequences when they "became hysterical" on the day Dad was supposed to pick them up at school?). Mom has, at the very minimum, acted to reinforce the children's hostilities, not only acting as if they are somehow justified in acting in rude and bizarre ways whenever Dad is around, but telling the world (and certainly her and their inner circles) via social media that they are simply acting rationally--too bad they have such a poor excuse for a father that brings this out in them.

One thing that I would agree about is that in families with far less resource, this case would have looked very differently. Kids would have been with Mom. Dad would have paid support and ultimately got frustrated and walked away, despite what the divorce decree had granted.

And if the kids behaved in a court as these kids have, they would have been removed from their Mom and there would have been no headlines.
 
  • #714
"In these therapies, the children do not give any form of consent, their autonomy is disregarded, and privileges are withheld until they comply with the program expectations. In the view of many child psychologists this is more akin to a brainwashing prison camp, than a therapy program...Coercion plays no part in [a successful therapeutic program] and delays meaningful and lasting reunification even if the children show surface compliance.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hope-loudon/tsimhoni-children-placed-_b_8119428.html

I read that article. Not very comprehensive if you ask me. Not certain what Hope Loudon's credentials are, either.

But, when she talks about "these types of programs," she could be talking about many different kinds of approaches. Further, while most therapeutic interventions (whether medical, educational or mental health in orientation) with children typically involve an explanation of what is going to happen and why, they have limited capacity (developmentally or legally) to give consent. The parent-child relationship is one in which parents repeatedly make decisions based on perceived needs and best interests of their children. In a case such as this, when parents are in disagreement, it is the role of the GAL to provide such perception on behalf of the children. Adults routinely recognize benefits of such things as nasty-tasting medicine, shots, surgeries, going to bed at night, eating vegetables before dessert--that children are not yet capable of recognizing and acting on. Sometimes children must be coerced. Sometimes choices must be made on their behalf that they cannot understand, or might not agree with.

Far from what is being presented from certain parties, I see nothing about the decisions in this case, on the part of the court, that have occurred merely on a whim. There have been competent evaluations, assessments, observations of every stripe from very competent people in order to arrive at this point. Multiple less coercive methodologies have been exhausted--terminating at the point at which three children refused to eat lunch with their father in the courthouse cafeteria, even after their appointed counsel advised them that the judge had the authority to make good on the consequence of removing them from their mother's care. Frankly, if I were in charge, I would have all kinds of misgivings about sending those kids home with Mom, on that day, or any other, without ensuring some form of intervention.
 
  • #715
View attachment 20150916_MOTION_FLD_APPT_GRANDMOTHER_AS_NEXT_FRIEND-PLF_064327460.pdfView attachment 20150916_MOTION_FLD-BRF_RECIND_EXPARTE_ORD-PLF_064327420-1.pdf

Two new filings--I invite any attorneys to share impressions. I have read them, as a non-attorney, and have some impressions.

One is a request for the maternal grandmother to be appointed as "next friend" to represent the interests of the kids. I believe that the woman lives in Israel, although this is not mentioned. Says she vacations with the kids and had regular contact until June. I don't know much about that role, but it worries me. Also makes me wonder if perhaps some of the various evals have done some real damage to the likelihood that the kids will return to Mom on a more permanent basis.

The other is a response to the recent temporary protective order to allow the kids to live with Dad and prohibiting Mom from lurking about. A good bit of it looks procedural to me challenging the way in which the temp situation was requested and granted--suggesting that it is essentially a change in custody without due process. I don't know about all of that. There are dates set when there will be due process and I'm sure there will be a good bit of back and forth then.

However, I have also lately begun to think that Dad has some very competent legal representation and that Mom has really managed to shoot herself in the foot by changing representation so frequently. What I am seeing at this point has been a fairly consistent long-term strategy moving forward to this point, as Dad moved back to Michigan (apparently also bringing his new family and transferring his work back to GM in Michigan) and established himself here. There have been a number of appointed experts and so forth that seemed at an earlier point to be somewhat random and reactionary, but in fact seem to have been laying a sound footing for the current request for a change in custody. It strikes me that the change of residence meets the minimum requirement to open the custody situation. But, we have in addition the report of a parenting time assessor (again--Mom really shot herself in the foot in not only being non-cooperative in the dual sessions, but also documenting that non-cooperation in an affidavit filed with the court objecting to the content of the assessor's discussions), and the most recent request and court order for a psych evaluation of Mom. Both the assessor's report and the psych eval are not available publicly--nor is the recent investigative report from CPS--which I am guessing weighed very heavily the eye witness account of the parenting supervisor who not only discounted Mom's claim of abuse, but also has said that over the course of 5 years has never seen Dad act inappropriately with the kids.

So--while these filings is clear than Mom is nowhere near ready to give up, I wonder whether she has already cooked her own goose. A good bit of the one filing focuses on accusing the court itself of errors--and I don't know, but I just cannot imagine that this will go far. JMO. Further, if the kids seem to be doing well in this temporary placement with Dad, I would think that any claims regarding a need to return them to Mom in order to restore their sense of safety (as suggested in the filing) would kinda fall flat.

Again--gitana? anyone?
 
  • #716
  • #717
Far from what is being presented from certain parties, I see nothing about the decisions in this case, on the part of the court, that have occurred merely on a whim. There have been competent evaluations, assessments, observations of every stripe from very competent people in order to arrive at this point. Multiple less coercive methodologies have been exhausted--terminating at the point at which three children refused to eat lunch with their father in the courthouse cafeteria, even after their appointed counsel advised them that the judge had the authority to make good on the consequence of removing them from their mother's care. Frankly, if I were in charge, I would have all kinds of misgivings about sending those kids home with Mom, on that day, or any other, without ensuring some form of intervention.

RSBBM. I've been following this case for a while, and appreciate your posts and analysis/ interpretation. I agree that this is a pretty clear example of parental alienation, and that numerous very competent observers and evaluations continue to be done to assess the ongoing situation.

As to the BBM above, IMO, this is exactly the kind of very worrisome situation where authorities must seriously consider the potential for a "Josh Powell" family annihilation, if the kids go back to the mother for any length of unsupervised time. And even moreso because the children appear to have achieved some measure of settling in and interacting with their father in the new environment. IMO, the mother could easily perceive that as traitorous behavior on the part of the kids, and be furious at them for cooperating. Essentially, transferring her anger at the father onto the kids.

I just deeply hope that the courts and authorities in DHS are getting these decisions "right" for these kids, so that there aren't any opportunities for impulsive violence. That woman, the mom, Maya, is a real powderkeg, IMO.
 
  • #718
  • #719
Aaaaaand, it's off to court they go today. It looks like there are multiple issues before the court, so I don't know which will be heard and which not. There is an objection to the judge's ruling on Dad's ex parte temporary protective custody request--which allowed the kids to stay with Dad for 90 days (or until the hearing on Dad's request for permanent custody?). I THINK the hearing on the custody change is not until Oct, but not certain.

And then we have a request from the maternal grandmother to be appointed as "Next Friend" of the children in order to hire lawyers for them. Grandma has a dif law firm (not Abood, who was Mom's latest, I think)--which makes sense from a conflict of interest standpoint. But, then I gotta wonder about Grandma's objectivity and whether she could yank her support for the attorneys should they not do as she wants. I also wonder about precedent for kids having independent representation in a case to which they are not officially a party (the divorce). The court appointed attorneys for the kids when they were charged with contempt, but dismissed them when the charges were dropped.

And then we have the request that the Judge Gorcyca recuse herself. http://www.wxyz.com/news/oakland-co...f-shell-be-removed-from-tsimhoni-custody-case. The person who filed this one is not Abood, nor is that firm referenced--so I wonder if Mom has switched attorneys again, or if this filing was just a paralegal in Abood's shop (looked like objection to the ex parte temp custody was done by paralegals--but within Abood's firm).

Not certain who is allowed in the courtroom today, so I don't know how it will be reported. Should be some fireworks, however.
 
  • #720
Well, folks, no news. But I did have a time to delve into the most recent court filings https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4jy2q37q3axx62a/AAASuO68l7LZn2GoLR705-lPa?dl=0 And there have been a flurry of them.

Still can't tell if Mom has new representation or just a lot of paralegals working under the most recent firm. Dad's side amped up representation--actually filing a notice of the additional representation. And we've still got Grandma's lawyers--waiting to be told they can represent the kids.

But--Mom's side is apparently attempting to depose the GAL, the new wife, and the personnel dept at GM (where Dad works). Oh--and they are also attempting to depose Dad. So, the GAL and the wife have attorneys now as well. And there are a bunch of filings around the last minute commands to be deposed. The GAL petitioned the court for some parameters for deposition (makes reference to a suspicion that Mom's new representation is just fishing instead of reading the court record), particularly around ensuring non-publication to the media.

Wish I had time to be a courthouse lurker. This is better than watching the soaps!
 
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