MI - Three siblings in juvenile detention for contempt, Pontiac, 9 July 2015

[wendiesan]

It looks as though Gorcyca has stepped down--although the actual document confused me. I think she responded first to the grounds on which the recusal was requested and denied as insufficient grounds--but then chose to recuse based on the appearance of impropriety. At any rate one news channel has reported that she has recused.

The cheerleaders are delighted and think they can force recusal of all the judges in Oakland County. I don't think it has sunk in yet that there isn't likely to be a do over of any earlier decisions. And so far as I can tell, this renders all of Mom's current filings moot and sets the stage to move forward with Dad's motion to change custody.

I rather suspect that any judge walking in the door is going to be very careful to get up to speed on the case. I don't think many judges enjoy holding a circus in their courtroom. And this one certainly has that potential.

The next judge will definitely have to take time to become familiar with the details, especially since there is such a lot of public and media attention on this case. However, since the attention was brought about by LG's own unprofessional and profoundly negative behaviour towards the children in this case. I don't see how LG's replacement could be used as a precedent for forcing other judges to recuse themselves unless they were also belittling children or misrepresenting their actions to members of the Judicial Tenure Commission.

An Oakland County judge who drew criticism in her handling of a custody case involving three Bloomfield Hills children has disqualified herself from the case.

In a four-page opinion filed Monday in Oakland County Circuit Court, Judge Lisa Gorcyca wrote that although she isn’t biased against either party in the case, she will withdraw because the Judicial Tenure Commission filed a complaint against her involving the case.

“This court finds, based on objective and reasonable perceptions, that its continued assignment may create an appearance of impropriety,” Gorcyca wrote.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...-withdraws-custody-battle-complaint/78000996/

 

[Margo/Mom]

I don't believe it was Gorcyca's actions that drew the press. I believe it was Mom's actions in informing the press--and presenting a very limited view of the case. Further, I think that the manner is which she addressed the children was very likely consistent with the way in which unruly children are frequently addressed by the court. If these kids were poor and black and turning up their noses at the reasonable attempts by their father to be involved in their lives and further treating members of the court with disrespect, if it made the press at all, the public would be cheering the judge for taking a firm hand and nipping behaviors in the bud.

 

[wendiesan]

Possibly. Although I think it's equally possible that a white judge who
tells a black child with a stellar academic performance and a scholarship to a math summer school course at a prestigious university that he's mentally messed up;
who draws circles around her ear to mock him like a schoolyard bully;
who tells him he's unintelligent;
who equates his rejection of an allegedly abusive father with training people to become stone cold murderers;
who implies to his little sister that he is rejected by God;
and who throws him for an undetermined time into what she refers to as jail
would be called a racist and pilloried in the press.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Possibly. Although I think it's equally possible that a white judge who
tells a black child with a stellar academic performance and a scholarship to a math summer school course at a prestigious university that he's mentally messed up;
who draws circles around her ear to mock him like a schoolyard bully;
who tells him he's unintelligent;
who equates his rejection of an allegedly abusive father with training people to become stone cold murderers;
who implies to his little sister that he is rejected by God;
and who throws him for an undetermined time into what she refers to as jail
would be called a racist and pilloried in the press.

Or not.

Recall that the Grand Jury yesterday refused to indict Tamir Rice's killer.

 

[wendiesan]

Yeah. That's sadly true. Killing a child within seconds of getting out of a car justifiable actions according to the grand jury.
Again, in this time of hyper political correctness regarding words, I'm surprised that actions resulting in death don't rate a second thought.
However, I'm happy the JIC at least got LG to reconsider her position.
The end result may be no different than if she stayed on, but I think the ruling will be more acceptable coming from a different judge.

Thanks M/M for debating these points with me. I'm glad we find things on which to agree as well as things on which we have different points of view.

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't believe it was Gorcyca's actions that drew the press. I believe it was Mom's actions in informing the press--and presenting a very limited view of the case.

:facepalm:

 

[Margo/Mom]

:facepalm:

Of course it was the judges actions that drew the press. That’s all they have been talking about. Nobody is talking about the mother’s actions, except a few people in this forum. I haven’t seen anybody else talking about the mother, anywhere.

I don't think the press routinely covers Family Court. Without someone calling their attention to this, I don't think they would have even noticed.

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't think the press routinely covers Family Court. Without someone calling their attention to this, I don't think they would have even noticed.

How dare the mother inform the press about this crazy, lunatic judge who sent her kids to jail because they wouldn’t eat lunch with their dad.

 

[wendiesan]

I don't think the press routinely covers Family Court. Without someone calling their attention to this, I don't think they would have even noticed.

Good point. An excellent reason to support the Elizabeth Fry Societies, and others like them, which draw attention to the way in which justice is administered. Someone should notice when these things happen. Someone should be reporting back to the public. Since the decisions made by judges are supposed to reflect the spirit as well as the letter of the law, the behaviour of judges in courtrooms should be something that may be commented upon without fear of retribution. A little sunshine can do a whole lot of good.

 

[flourish]

Good point. An excellent reason to support the Elizabeth Fry Societies, and others like them, which draw attention to the way in which justice is administered. Someone should notice when these things happen. Someone should be reporting back to the public. Since the decisions made by judges are supposed to reflect the spirit as well as the letter of the law, the behaviour of judges in courtrooms should be something that may be commented upon without fear of retribution. A little sunshine can do a whole lot of good.

Literally all I know about the Elizabeth Fry society is their strong support of Karla Homolka upon her legal, but morally corrupt and, IMO, premature release from "prison."

Yikes.

The only crazy behavior I'm aware of in this particular case is on the part of the mom.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Good point. An excellent reason to support the Elizabeth Fry Societies, and others like them, which draw attention to the way in which justice is administered. Someone should notice when these things happen. Someone should be reporting back to the public. Since the decisions made by judges are supposed to reflect the spirit as well as the letter of the law, the behaviour of judges in courtrooms should be something that may be commented upon without fear of retribution. A little sunshine can do a whole lot of good.

I don't know that this case has had sufficient sunshine. The court has been dealing with this family for 5 years, during which plan after plan for responding to these children has been put in place, and frankly sabotaged by their mother.

The GAL was not big on the placement at Mandy's Place--in his statement to the court when the plan to place them at camp was brought before the judge--but he was also adamant that they NOT go back to their mother. Based on what he has seen over time..

 

[wendiesan]

I don't know that this case has had sufficient sunshine. The court has been dealing with this family for 5 years, during which plan after plan for responding to these children has been put in place, and frankly sabotaged by their mother.

The GAL was not big on the placement at Mandy's Place--in his statement to the court when the plan to place them at camp was brought before the judge--but he was also adamant that they NOT go back to their mother. Based on what he has seen over time..

It's really a convoluted situation, and I hope there is a resolution which will benefit the children. Perhaps the appointment of a new judge and a new GAL will bring some necessary changes to the dynamics surrounding this case.

 

[wendiesan]

Literally all I know about the Elizabeth Fry society is their strong support of Karla Homolka upon her legal, but morally corrupt and, IMO, premature release from "prison." Yikes. The only crazy behavior I'm aware of in this particular case is on the part of the mom.

You're right. While the Elizabeth Fry Society does support programs to improve the conditions of women and their children from at risk, to incarceration, to reintegration and eventual independence, their philosophy that every incarcerated woman deserves support led to a decision by, IIRC, one Quebec chapter to support Karla Homolka. The EFS's work in BC with addicts and methadone clinics, for example, has been very successful. However the association with and support of Homolka by even one branch continues to put the entire organization under a cloud.

I should have used a better example. (For those unfamiliar with the case, Homolka was given a plea deal by Crown officials for testifying against her then husband, Paul Bernardo. She served her full twelve year sentence for her involvement in the torture and murders of 15 year old Kristen French, 14 year old Leslie Mahafee, and the nearly 16 year old Tammy Homolka (her sister) and the assault of another young woman. As a result, she did not have to abide by any probation requirements. After the deal was agreed upon, a videotape was found which, IIRC, showed that Homolka's participation. IIRC, EFS was not involved in any way in brokering the deal. That negotiation was between Homolka's lawyer and the officials of the Crown.)

I have to agree with you that Homolka should have served much, much longer, especially when Bernardo (who was also a serial rapist) will never and should never be released. It's a travesty that such a dangerous woman got out of prison at a relatively young age, and was able to marry and have children.

 

[wendiesan]

OMG, Flourish, I just realized that this is the 25th anniversary of Tammy Homolka's murder. Sorry to be OT, mods.
I don't know how KH can live with herself, or how her husband can trust her around their daughters who must now be getting close to Tammy, Kristen, and Leslie's ages. IIRC, KH used the JA "he made me do it", "I'm a victim too" defence.
So, tonight I'll be lighting candles for Tammy, Kristen, Leslie and Amanda.
http://www.gratefulness.org/light-a-candle
I'm done being off topic, mods.
Thanks for your patience, but please delete this post if it's too far off.

 

[flourish]

OMG, Flourish, I just realized that this is the 25th anniversary of Tammy Homolka's murder. Sorry to be OT, mods.
I don't know how KH can live with herself, or how her husband can trust her around their daughters who must now be getting close to Tammy, Kristen, and Leslie's ages. IIRC, KH used the JA "he made me do it", "I'm a victim too" defence.
So, tonight I'll be lighting candles for Tammy, Kristen, Leslie and Amanda.
http://www.gratefulness.org/light-a-candle
I'm done being off topic, mods.
Thanks for your patience, but please delete this post if it's too far off.

yes Christmas Eve was when they attacked poor Tammy after plying her with drinks with pills in them.

And coming back in topic it's my opinion that the press heard about this story because the mom put a bug in someone's ear or, more likely, nagged enough people enough times to get the story out there, thinking everyone would look at the surface and be like, oh these judges these days do the darndest things and chalk this up to the same category as the judge who ordered a couple to change their name from Messiah because "only Jesus gets to be Messiah." I think mom was counting on people to get up in arms without doing due diligence. Imo. She seems very attention- seeking to me.

 

[Morag]

(snip)... I think mom was counting on people to get up in arms without doing due diligence. Imo. She seems very attention- seeking to me.

That may be, but I would go to the ends of the earth to avoid having my child(ren) taken from me. I would fight until the last dog dies. I would do whatever it takes to prevent my spouse from leaving the country with my son. (This is very much a moot point for me- happily married with a grown son and no one wants to take him away). But I would fight with whatever was necessary, and so has this mother.

 

[Margo/Mom]

That may be, but I would go to the ends of the earth to avoid having my child(ren) taken from me. I would fight until the last dog dies. I would do whatever it takes to prevent my spouse from leaving the country with my son. (This is very much a moot point for me- happily married with a grown son and no one wants to take him away). But I would fight with whatever was necessary, and so has this mother.

I'm not certain that Mom's recent actions have had much to do with regaining contact with her children. While reports are conflicting, it would appear as though her involvement in the required counseling and so forth that is a part of the reunification process has been very much only on her own terms. As an example, one of Dad's responses to her recent flurry of court filings alleges that she has not provided signed consent for the sharing of information between her counselor(s) and the childrens' counselor(s). As a result, her attorney is able to include selected details from conversations with the childrens' therapists in a court filing in which he claims that the condition of the children has deteriorated. On the other hand, what we know about Mom and her therapeutic involvement is based solely on affadavits outlining that Mom has "participated" with counselors for X number of hours and "been cooperative." Mom also swears in an affidavit that she has never been diagnosed as narcissistic or having a borderline personality disorder. Key missing piece of information--has she ever been evaluated for these things? Could she have set as a condition of her therapy that no such diagnostics be a part of the work? And what has been the focus of treatment?

These things are particularly important as they would seem to be key to recovering contact with the children--not to mention being supportive of their own treatment and emotional health.

I truly had some hopes for her in terms of her relationship to the children until the most recent series of court filings, in which the legal focus seemed to move away from ascertaining a wise custody situation for the children and onto removing/destroying the judge. Mom's request for a legal stay on all decision-making has kept the kids in a legal limbo since early October. And I believe that this limbo--while not particularly helpful to the children--will ultimately serve Dad's interests in asking for full custody. The longer they are with Dad, the harder it is likely to be for any judge to toss the work that has been done with them (and recall that any and all prior counseling attempts under Mom were pretty much non-starters) in order to restore custody to Mom.

I also see a lot of projection on Mom's part. She took the kids and fled the home in Israel. Now she claims to fear that Dad will take the kids and return to Israel (although at this point, one might hope that he has amply demonstrated his commitment to living with them in the US). There is a circulating belief that Dad threatened the kids in Hebrew in front of the parenting supervisor--resulting in an English-only rule. I haven't seen documentation anywhere of any such event. But, I do see documented in two places that Mom spoke to the children in Hebrew in front of the GAL once and the parenting supervisor another time.

I really question at this point whether Mom is capable of the sort of Mama Bear response you seem to be describing. I would imagine that one of the things that the kids are facing at the moment is having to work through why it is that their mother is not participating in doing the things that are required of her in order to regain contact. Having been told for years that their father abandoned them, they are now having to deal with a very real abandonment by their mother.

 

[Margo/Mom]

It's really a convoluted situation, and I hope there is a resolution which will benefit the children. Perhaps the appointment of a new judge and a new GAL will bring some necessary changes to the dynamics surrounding this case.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that anyone is contemplating a new GAL.

But, I think that one reason that there has been no basic improvement over five years is that there have been so many red herrings pursued. Changing the judge or changing the GAL really ought not make much of a difference. But it does tend to waste time and prevent any real therapy or recovery for these children.

 

[Margo/Mom]

How dare the mother inform the press about this crazy, lunatic judge who sent her kids to jail because they wouldn’t eat lunch with their dad.

See, that's a story with legs. But, it overlooks a good many pertinent facts, including a five-year history of counseling attempts, a therapeutic-parenting counselor who was unable to follow through on court-agreed-to sessions between Dad and the kids because Mom made scheduling appointments impossible, and Mom involving the kids (or at least one of the kids, depending on what you believe about the 2010 park incident) in making bogus assault claims against Dad, not to mention not simply refusing to go to lunch with Dad (in the courthouse cafeteria), but refusing to enter the courtroom/jury room where visitation had been scheduled following a long history of the children's blatant disrespect toward their father (refusing eye contact, refusing to speak, refusing to drink a glass of water because it was the father who asked the waittress to pour it) in the presence of a parenting supervisor (who was put in place by the GAL in order to prevent further 911 calls regarding ambiguous situations of supposed abuse); not to mention over a dozen show-cause hearings in response to Mom refusing to honor the visitation agreement in the Judgement of Divorce. Yeah--much too difficult a story to really look at. But sending the kids to jail because they won't go to lunch, yeah, that sells newspapers.

 

[CHICANA]

I'm not certain that Mom's recent actions have had much to do with regaining contact with her children. While reports are conflicting, it would appear as though her involvement in the required counseling and so forth that is a part of the reunification process has been very much only on her own terms. As an example, one of Dad's responses to her recent flurry of court filings alleges that she has not provided signed consent for the sharing of information between her counselor(s) and the childrens' counselor(s). As a result, her attorney is able to include selected details from conversations with the childrens' therapists in a court filing in which he claims that the condition of the children has deteriorated. On the other hand, what we know about Mom and her therapeutic involvement is based solely on affadavits outlining that Mom has "participated" with counselors for X number of hours and "been cooperative." Mom also swears in an affidavit that she has never been diagnosed as narcissistic or having a borderline personality disorder. Key missing piece of information--has she ever been evaluated for these things? Could she have set as a condition of her therapy that no such diagnostics be a part of the work? And what has been the focus of treatment?

These things are particularly important as they would seem to be key to recovering contact with the children--not to mention being supportive of their own treatment and emotional health.

I truly had some hopes for her in terms of her relationship to the children until the most recent series of court filings, in which the legal focus seemed to move away from ascertaining a wise custody situation for the children and onto removing/destroying the judge. Mom's request for a legal stay on all decision-making has kept the kids in a legal limbo since early October. And I believe that this limbo--while not particularly helpful to the children--will ultimately serve Dad's interests in asking for full custody. The longer they are with Dad, the harder it is likely to be for any judge to toss the work that has been done with them (and recall that any and all prior counseling attempts under Mom were pretty much non-starters) in order to restore custody to Mom.

I also see a lot of projection on Mom's part. She took the kids and fled the home in Israel. Now she claims to fear that Dad will take the kids and return to Israel (although at this point, one might hope that he has amply demonstrated his commitment to living with them in the US). There is a circulating belief that Dad threatened the kids in Hebrew in front of the parenting supervisor--resulting in an English-only rule. I haven't seen documentation anywhere of any such event. But, I do see documented in two places that Mom spoke to the children in Hebrew in front of the GAL once and the parenting supervisor another time.

I really question at this point whether Mom is capable of the sort of Mama Bear response you seem to be describing. I would imagine that one of the things that the kids are facing at the moment is having to work through why it is that their mother is not participating in doing the things that are required of her in order to regain contact. Having been told for years that their father abandoned them, they are now having to deal with a very real abandonment by their mother.

That's not going to happen with a corrupt and biased judge. I was really disturbed by the report on the judge's misconduct.