Michelle Young. Murdered Pregnant Mom, NC Part 11

[close_enough]

No, I agree. Black pants would have been described as black sweat pants, IMO. I am of the opinion that she hadn't gone to bed. She could have been doing things around the house or getting ready for bed; i. e., washing face, brushing teeth, etc.

I think that Jason, who has never murdered anyone, didn't realize how hard it would be to kill someone. I think that he thought that he would be able to spend a few seconds strangling her and that would be it, clean and easy.

If Jason committed the crime, which I believe that he did, I think that he may have worn a ski mask or something over his face to conceal his identity. I also bet Michelle recognized him as I would recognize my husband by his build and by just knowing him.

I think that Jason did mean to murder Michelle through strangulation. That's why she had fingernail scratches to her neck. I think that he probably used a rope or something other than his hands, not sure though. I believe that he may also have been wearing gloves.

He probably did come into the home, with a ski mask and a flashlight, to look like a burglar. I think that he probably shut his daughter's door with the dog inside her room. Then, he entered the master bedroom. He may have been surprised to see that Michelle was not in bed. However, I believe that there was a big, big struggle. I think that Michelle was stronger than Jason anticipated.

I think that there was blood everywhere; and that's why police got palm prints, foot prints, etc. I think that it would be very telling to see if Jason tried to clean up areas where there were hand and foot prints. To me, this would rule out a stranger killing (along with the other circumstances).

I can't believe that Jason could have wiped away all of the evidence because I can only imagine that there was blood everywhere because of the massive struggle and the massive overkill.

I have to believe that Jason spent a while in the home, cleaning himself and the crimescene the best that he could. I believe Jilly when she says that he looks distraught. He thought that it would going to be a clean and easy kill. Instead, it was lengthy and very messy. That would be an everloving nightmare that would be playing through my mind as well as worrying if and when the cops were going to arrest me.

I think that Jason premeditated this murder and that it was not precipitated by an argument. I think Jason was not happy and definitely did not want another child. He wanted out of this marriage, and he wanted everything else, too.

By that, I mean, he wanted no debt; he wanted the home; he wanted extra money from the life insurance. If it meant killing this woman that had trapped him into marriage in the first place, then so be it.

I think that Jason saw Michelle as superior to him in every way; and I think that Michelle probably called the shots in the marriage. I think that, over time, this really enraged Jason to the point that he finally did something about it.

i think you're probably right Nan!

 

[raisincharlie]

i know on my phone, it gives me a little 'thingy' up in the corner of the screen that lets me know i have a voice message.....why would a person need to keep actually "checking" it???....either he had VM or he didn't....i would think most, if not all, cell phones have this 'thingy' (not sure what to call it) to show there's VM waiting.....

him checking his VM frequently just sounds stupid to me.....

Close,

I know what you are saying but this routine checking of voice mail is interesting. Given the terrain of western VA and then heading south toward Brevard, I suspect there may be several dead zones. The "thingy" wouldn't light up going through those zones either as the phone would have no tower contact. It might be easier to push a button to retrieve vm rather than take eyes off the road to look for a "thingy". To me the interesting thing is why check vm instead of answering the darn thing ? That is what gets me - why are you letting everything go to vm in the first place if you are just driving along? No I do not use a cell phone will driving but then I don't make my living worrying about phone calls.

 

[close_enough]

Close,

I know what you are saying but this routine checking of voice mail is interesting. Given the terrain of western VA and then heading south toward Brevard, I suspect there may be several dead zones. The "thingy" wouldn't light up going through those zones either as the phone would have no tower contact. It might be easier to push a button to retrieve vm rather than take eyes off the road to look for a "thingy". To me the interesting thing is why check vm instead of answering the darn thing ? That is what gets me - why are you letting everything go to vm in the first place if you are just driving along? No I do not use a cell phone will driving but then I don't make my living worrying about phone calls.

good point RC...didn't think of that...i wouldn't be able to see the 'thingy' while driving, that's for sure...it's small.....

hmmmmm, soooooo let's say he had his phone turned off, but kept turning it on JUST to check VM.....

eta...i think this will all boil down to just being nervous...curiosity was killin him, & he wanted to see if Meredith had found Michelle & Cassidy......BUT, if he was wanting to be careful, seems he would have had the phone turned off, IMO........wonder when it was he was "frequently" checking VM?.....if it was during the day on November 3rd (which i HAVE to think it was) he'd have to be careful using that phone (cell towers tracing him & all).....course by the time he started checking VM "frequently" he could have been in areas that were 'ok' as far as his meeting & all.....interesting...

 

[raisincharlie]

good point RC...didn't think of that...i wouldn't be able to see the 'thingy' while driving, that's for sure...it's small.....

hmmmmm, soooooo let's say he had his phone turned off, but kept turning it on JUST to check VM.....

eta...i think this will all boil down to just being nervous...curiosity was killin him, & he wanted to see if Meredith had found Michelle & Cassidy......BUT, if he was wanting to be careful, seems he would have had the phone turned off, IMO........wonder when it was he was "frequently" checking VM?.....if it was during the day on November 3rd (which i HAVE to think it was) he'd have to be careful using that phone (cell towers tracing him & all).....course by the time he started checking VM "frequently" he could have been in areas that were 'ok' as far as his meeting & all.....interesting...

I think the voice mail thing is just the opposite - I think he was careful - he probably did not call anyone, nor did he want to talk to anyone but this checking Vm would leave a very nice trail of his travel for LE - in other words neon sign - "see I'm way over here in western VA and TN and western NC - I couldn't have done it" !

 

[close_enough]

I think the voice mail thing is just the opposite - I think he was careful - he probably did not call anyone, nor did he want to talk to anyone but this checking Vm would leave a very nice trail of his travel for LE - in other words neon sign - "see I'm way over here in western VA and TN and western NC - I couldn't have done it" !

yep, could be.....these checks of VM could very well have been made in areas that were 'ok' & jived with his meeting....

 

[close_enough]

i don't know about anyone else, but this case is driving me nuts...getting VERY frustrated with the waiting....sure, i want justice for Michelle, & i DO want everything to be done right & 'by the book', but something is holding things up & i have a fear it's not the backlog at a lab, ugh.....i hope i'm wrong..

 

[Dominique]

Close,

I know what you are saying but this routine checking of voice mail is interesting. Given the terrain of western VA and then heading south toward Brevard, I suspect there may be several dead zones. The "thingy" wouldn't light up going through those zones either as the phone would have no tower contact. It might be easier to push a button to retrieve vm rather than take eyes off the road to look for a "thingy". To me the interesting thing is why check vm instead of answering the darn thing ? That is what gets me - why are you letting everything go to vm in the first place if you are just driving along? No I do not use a cell phone will driving but then I don't make my living worrying about phone calls.

Very good Rc...there are indeed many, many dead spots in southwest VA, most of Scott County has no coverage. On the route from VA thru TN to Brevard NC there is a 30-45 minute stretch in TN in the mountains w/no coverage and then going to Brevard, coverage is spotty in areas...so he took the 'long way home' and just chose a wondering route that he would have known in advance has many opportunities to explain his lack of contact via phone...he could always say, in response to not ans. the phone and checking VM he could say, I did not get the call or the VM...he would not to received that news, live on the phone, in the car w/no witnesses and if he had he would not have a chance to perform ..he had his 'plumb to his knees scthik' all planned...IMO. If he had received the news en route, he would have had to return to the RDU area immediately and I don't think he was prepared for that, w/out his performance and his family by his side, buying him time to prepare a response and w/his family present, it would deflect some attention away from him, he would not be on stage alone and they could run interference so the spotlight was not too bright on him.

 

[Dominique]

Very good Rc...there are indeed many, many dead spots in southwest VA, most of Scott County has no coverage. On the route from VA thru TN to Brevard NC there is a 30-45 minute stretch in TN in the mountains w/no coverage and then going to Brevard, coverage is spotty in areas...so he took the 'long way home' and just chose a wondering route that he would have known in advance has many opportunities to explain his lack of contact via phone...he could always say, in response to not ans. the phone and checking VM he could say, I did not get the call or the VM...he would not to received that news, live on the phone, in the car w/no witnesses and if he had he would not have a chance to perform ..he had his 'plumb to his knees scthik' all planned...IMO. If he had received the news en route, he would have had to return to the RDU area immediately and I don't think he was prepared for that, w/out his performance and his family by his side, buying him time to prepare a response and w/his family present, it would deflect some attention away from him, he would not be on stage alone and they could run interference so the spotlight was not too bright on him.

I need to add, that I almost positive that he did not place or receive any calls in that time where he actually spoke to anyone in a live conversation.

 

[raisincharlie]

Very good Rc...there are indeed many, many dead spots in southwest VA, most of Scott County has no coverage. On the route from VA thru TN to Brevard NC there is a 30-45 minute stretch in TN in the mountains w/no coverage and then going to Brevard, coverage is spotty in areas...so he took the 'long way home' and just chose a wondering route that he would have known in advance has many opportunities to explain his lack of contact via phone...he could always say, in response to not ans. the phone and checking VM he could say, I did not get the call or the VM...he would not to received that news, live on the phone, in the car w/no witnesses and if he had he would not have a chance to perform ..he had his 'plumb to his knees scthik' all planned...IMO. If he had received the news en route, he would have had to return to the RDU area immediately and I don't think he was prepared for that, w/out his performance and his family by his side, buying him time to prepare a response and w/his family present, it would deflect some attention away from him, he would not be on stage alone and they could run interference so the spotlight was not too bright on him.

Dominique,

I totally agree with you on this - he needed the support of his family, seems he used them as effectively as he used Meredith - JMO of course.

 

[raisincharlie]

If you think JY was the killer at the house that night, there are 2 scenarios

1- He came back to finish an argument and he lost total control and killed MY.

2- He carefully planned & premeditated the murder and came in the house
undetected and killed her.

If #1, the lights were probably on and it would not be very late , 12 am ? After trying to choke her to death (nearly succeeded with this hemorrhaged neck muscles), he then beat her to death with what ? The weapon would have to be right there in the room ready to go in an instant. Mag Lite on the bed side table ? Possible, but not probable.

if #2, he would sneak into a dark yard, dark house and DARK BEDROOM using the mag-lit,a very practical dual purpose tool and "back up" murder weapon. Also, #2 is backed up by the $1mm policy and the girl friend motive. Again, I say "back up" because I think strangulation was the intended manner of death.

I am going for #2 scenario, as I think #1 would leave a pile of evidence where JY would be charged long ago. Also, the sheriff said 12 am to 6 am, with 3 am falling in the middle. My guess is TOD is closer to this mid time and they want 3 hours before and 3 hours behind to ask the public if they saw anything.
(rectal temp , rigor and livor at 2 pm Friday would give them a tighter TOD than 12 am to 6 am.)

I am still thinking there could easily be a 3rd party hired killer here that "fell into his lap" and he did not have to go asking questions and risk a trail. However, If those "dark spots" consistent with blood are in fact blood on/in the SUV , I think scenario #2 and JY was no doubt the killer. It will be interesting to see if this was "blood" or simply mud or something else. After all, this info was probable cause for a search warrant and if there was "any chance" it was blood, they would want the SUV immediatly.

Barney,

I go back and forth on how this went down but if JY is the killer - Scenario 1 is very possible for the simple fact that crime scenes involving people who live in the crime scene are infinately more complicated for LE to resolve. DNA is expected to be there and with a bloody scene there are no little signs that point to the victims blood versus the killer's so you can see the complications that arise. There are other points to be considered as well footprints, fibers, hair etc.

For me, the fact that strangulation did not complete the task somewhat rules out, at least in my mind, Scenario #2, especially Scenario #2 with a hired killer and a dog in the house. I know it is possible but my brain wants to know how a totally unaware person can have someone jump on them and try to strangle them and yet get away from them.

What is equally telling to me, if no unknowns are recovered from the scene, it is as telling as finding forensics from JY. With all crime scenes, the perp adds something to the scene and takes something away.

JMO as I have not firmed up in my mind what happened, simply not enough to go on at this time for me anyways.


ETA - while I agree the spots that appeared to be blood were used as probable cause - I believe there were plans to take the vehicle before those observations were made. Note in the search warrant it clearly indicates the vehicle was being detained at Meredith's until Major Johnson arrived - he made the observations and then went for the warrant.

 

[Dominique]

Also, I note that a fellow crime poster was interviewed by LE this tuesday. To me this says, not that the authorities are actively pursuing Other suspects but they are at a point in the case where they are shoring up any theories that the defense team of the murderer might run w/. Just as they have to follow up tips, in cases where there is a tip-line, they methodically are eliminating any diversion from the true focus of the investigation, in preparation for charges and the eventual trial...I M hopeful O!

 

[raisincharlie]

Also, I note that a fellow crime poster was interviewed by LE this tuesday. To me this says, not that the authorities are actively pursuing Other suspects but they are at a point in the case where they are shoring up any theories that the defense team of the murderer might run w/. Just as they have to follow up tips, in cases where there is a tip-line, they methodically are eliminating any diversion from the true focus of the investigation, in preparation for charges and the eventual trial...I M hopeful O!

Dominique,

Has anyone actually been able to verify the rumored questionnaires supposedly being sent out the Enchanted Oaks residents ? Heard about it but not sure if there have been others from the subdivision who concur. Any ideas ?

As to the above - hopefully you are correct. LE would be wise indeed to eliminate as many possible defense avenues as possible - I'm pretty sure they understand the law firm involved, at least IMO they are.

 

[scandi]

Interesting Charlie. Yesterday I found the names of the Young's neighbors listed in the thread here re: players in the case. Too bad we can't find out from them! Ya sure ya bet cha I do agree with Dominique's assessment though regarding LE's surveying the neighborhood as to what individuals noticed.

 

[jilly]

RC Good morning! Afternoon to you!

I think it was you that mentioned certain things which JTF has posted could only be known to the murderer, MF & LE.

Can you please refresh my memory! What time did LE meet up with JY at Meredith's on the 3rd, is it known? I know sw's were slapped on them for the vehicle & contents. But then the vehicle wasn't impounded until 4am the following day.

Since the vehicle was still at Meredith's at that time, was he not allowed to move it before they impounded it? I'm just confused on this part.

I'm just basically wondering what JY & family did when they met up with LE. Suppose they all went to a hotel but I'm wondering if JY stayed at Meredith's with Cassidy. If not, I'm wondering if they talked at all, or did MF just hand over Cass. Things like the clothing MY was wearing. Of course he already knew (if he did it) but it would give him a reason for knowing if you know what I mean.

 

[panthera]

i don't know about anyone else, but this case is driving me nuts...getting VERY frustrated with the waiting....sure, i want justice for Michelle, & i DO want everything to be done right & 'by the book', but something is holding things up & i have a fear it's not the backlog at a lab, ugh.....i hope i'm wrong..

I have a feeling that it's not the backlog at the state crime lab either but maybe LE is unable to tie Jason to the murder or verify his whereabouts. Reading someone else's post here just now about evidence left at the crime scene~ of course Jason's DNA, hair, etc is going to be in the house since he lived there. What might possibly seal it for him is that there may not be anyone else's present which should be after such a vicious attack.

 

[crimeq]

Crimeq,

I'm not qualified or even well versed about relating murder weapons to drawings on an AR but to me this weapon appears too small. Given the advertised capacity to break bones I would think we would have seen more "structural damage" rather than lacerations. Seems to me it could have done the damage to the jaw but I'm not sure about all the lacerations. For some reason I picture something a bit larger. As I said, I'm not well versed so take this opinion in that context please.

I noted on CTV you had commented on the Tuesday thread about JTF being JY's sister. I was intrigued by that and responded, however that thread will soon be locked and I would like to understand why you think that. Would you mind looking near the end of the Tuesday thread for my response and then come back so we can discuss ? TIA

Hi RC, I read everything I could find online about the weapon when I discovered it the other night. It's extremely versatile--can scrape, break bones, punch holes, press on pressure points. (One of the training sites recommended everyone have this--it's small, easy to handle/use (closed inside the fist, it turns a fist into a very hard hit), doesn't require a lot of training to use. The trainer suggested everyone have one as a keychain, even, because they are so effective (they have light-weight ones of some synthetic material that still do the job). Anyway, after reading all I could, I came to the conclusion this weapon could have caused all the wounds to Michelle. Hits on the back of the head with the weapon may not cause skull fractures (we have hard heads, lol) but would certainly lacerate the skin and tear it with the knurling.

What stood out greatly was the ring. The suntetsu is held in the palm of the hand and the ring attaches over one finger, so the ring is on the outside. This allows the weapon to be rotated to various positions in the palm. The perp could have held the weapon in his fist and punched, struck Michelle in the shoulder (perhaps she was standing when he arrived, or tried to get up early in the attack). RPD said there was a lot of bruising around the crescent shaped mark. This weapon, in a closed fist, would deliver massive blows and the ring would be on the outside of the fist--leaving a crescent shaped mark.

Something else that intrigued me is that this weapon is sometimes used with pressure point techniques (the weapon can be used to press on those points). What if the perp wasn't strangling Michelle, but pressing on a pressure point on her neck to gain control of her so he could position her and deliver that first smack to the mouth? Possible, I think. I don't know what damage murderous pressure on a pressure point would do to strap muscles in the neck, but I would think that may be caused by Michelle's straining to resist. (If this is the case, it throws strangulation as first choice out the window, and the killer came prepared to bludgeon her to death with this weapon--fast and furiously).

I have chills about this weapon, after all I read about it (though still thinking about getting one for my keychain--I walk a lot!).

From what I read, there are relatively few distributors of this weapon in the US, which may make tracing purchases easier, especially if the were made online or by mail order.

It also occurred to me that this could be a weapon of choice for a hitman--easy to carry, easy to use, deadly. I'm not sold on the hitman theory but it is one possible scenario.

RE: JY's sister being JTF--I was agreeing that it was a possibility. I highly doubt she is involved. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think JTF is Rhett Fussell. My own opinion, obviously.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[crimeq]

I have a feeling that it's not the backlog at the state crime lab either but maybe LE is unable to tie Jason to the murder or verify his whereabouts. Reading someone else's post here just now about evidence left at the crime scene~ of course Jason's DNA, hair, etc is going to be in the house since he lived there. What might possibly seal it for him is that there may not be anyone else's present which should be after such a vicious attack.

Hi Panthera, I have felt all along that the "backlog" was an excuse thrown out early on to buy some time. Donnie Harrison did say they were using the state facilities but also a private lab. I suspect they would have rushed anything that seemed it could be of high importance to the private lab--unfortunately, that FE must not have checked out.

We are already in the time frame of when FE would be verified if the only hold-up was the lab backlog. I think Donnie said a 3-month backlog--well, we're at the 3-month point.

 

[panthera]

If you think JY was the killer at the house that night, there are 2 scenarios

1- He came back to finish an argument and he lost total control and killed MY.

2- He carefully planned & premeditated the murder and came in the house
undetected and killed her.

If #1, the lights were probably on and it would not be very late , 12 am ? After trying to choke her to death (nearly succeeded with this hemorrhaged neck muscles), he then beat her to death with what ? The weapon would have to be right there in the room ready to go in an instant. Mag Lite on the bed side table ? Possible, but not probable.

if #2, he would sneak into a dark yard, dark house and DARK BEDROOM using the mag-lit,a very practical dual purpose tool and "back up" murder weapon. Also, #2 is backed up by the $1mm policy and the girl friend motive. Again, I say "back up" because I think strangulation was the intended manner of death.

Scenario #2 and he did it himself. The mag-lite still looks to be a good possibility for the weapon. This doesn't look like a hired killer to me with the attempted strangulation.

 

[panthera]

Hi Panthera, I have felt all along that the "backlog" was an excuse thrown out early on to buy some time. Donnie Harrison did say they were using the state facilities but also a private lab. I suspect they would have rushed anything that seemed it could be of high importance to the private lab--unfortunately, that FE must not have checked out.

We are already in the time frame of when FE would be verified if the only hold-up was the lab backlog. I think Donnie said a 3-month backlog--well, we're at the 3-month point.

You're right it's been over 3 mo. since Michelle was murdered and it does seem too long now for no results to be back. I think there is a lot of investigation that has to go into this case, namely establishing that Jason was not where he was supposed to be during the night and that he did return to the house and commit the murder.

 

[scandi]

Panthera, you said " . . .What might possibly seal it for him is that there may not be anyone else's present which should be after such a vicious attack."

I agree, and it might come down to no evidence is evidence he did it.

You also said "Scenario #2 and he did it himself. The mag-lite still looks to be a good possibility for the weapon. This doesn't look like a hired killer to me with the attempted strangulation.

Barney, I'm taking the #2 position at this time for these reasons above. Your post was well put together and sorted it out well. Thanks.

Crimeq, you said "Hi Panthera, I have felt all along that the "backlog" was an excuse thrown out early on to buy some time."

I also agree with that. Harrison said 'about two months' in that link, said I believe on Dec 4th. That is why we expected info out by the first part of Feb. Since we have heard nothing yet, I agree with you that it was a general excuse for more time.

I'm still cogitating on your weapon idea. I would think LE would ban weapons like this. In Oregon it is against the law to have numchucks or brass knuckles. Also red dot lasar flashlights. If you get caught with any of these, it's downtown baby, and the cops don't mince around. Now it could be that is a City ordinance here in Portland and not statewide, but interesting nevertheless.

Back to work!

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