Michelle Young ~ Pregnant Mother NC Part 3

[fran]

You know if this knucklehead planned it this way he has to be a natural born idiot imo.

First he would know that up close and personal murders usually means the spouse or someone known to the victim.

Second by leaving the door with no forced entry would look like someone did this that knows her.

By leaving Cassidy all alone yet unharmed (although that is what they said Chris McCowen did with Ava when he murdered her mother, Christa Worthington.)

This guy if truly this stupid he might as well tattooed a sign on his forehead saying "I'm guilty".

If he did this the stupidity of some murderers continue to amaze me.

Why didn't he jimmy or bust the lock...rummage the drawers to make it look like a robbery? Why not just smother or strangle her, she was a petite woman, no match for him.

Who leaves a messy crime scene behind and actually thinks they will not get caught? SD immediately began making up all sort of lame reasons why Pamela's DNA may be on him or his DNA found in her home.

Still their stupidity continues to amaze me especially those who premeditate their crimes. They had to get their planning guide from the World's Dumbest Criminals.

IMO

Ocean

Well, no one said criminals are smart. I mean, really, my all time favorite is still, "I lost my wife and this will be the first Holidays without her." or something like that. LOL,...............duh!!!!!! :loser:

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, no one said criminals are smart. I mean, really, my all time favorite is still, "I lost my wife and this will be the first Holidays without her." or something like that. LOL,...............duh!!!!!! :loser:

JMHO
fran

We need to write a book and rate them by their stupidity level to see who makes it to Number One! :loser: :loser: :behindbar :behindbar

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

You know if this knucklehead planned it this way he has to be a natural born idiot imo.

First he would know that up close and personal murders usually means the spouse or someone known to the victim.

Second by leaving the door with no forced entry would look like someone did this that knows her.

By leaving Cassidy all alone yet unharmed (although that is what they said Chris McCowen did with Ava when he murdered her mother, Christa Worthington.)

This guy if truly this stupid he might as well tattooed a sign on his forehead saying "I'm guilty".

If he did this the stupidity of some murderers continue to amaze me.

Why didn't he jimmy or bust the lock...rummage the drawers to make it look like a robbery? Why not just smother or strangle her, she was a petite woman, no match for him.

Who leaves a messy crime scene behind and actually thinks they will not get caught? SD immediately began making up all sort of lame reasons why Pamela's DNA may be on him or his DNA found in her home.

Still their stupidity continues to amaze me especially those who premeditate their crimes. They had to get their planning guide from the World's Dumbest Criminals.

IMO

Ocean

All murderers are, imo, as senseless and irrational as their crimes. All that you have mentioned makes me feel a 'stranger' would not sneak in, unleash an horrendous series of horrific blows, and then tip toe out of the place, leaving little untouched and no forced entry/exit.

That alone tells me this was planned. With JY conveniently outta town: the perp had one mission, and one mission only.

WHAT if ... (IF.... this was JY), he mentally tuned himself to leave no fingerprints, evidence and in so doing, did not realize his plan was so clean it made a "U" turn in everyday logic? Just as you say, short of having Class Act tatooed on his forehead, Ocean?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good Morning!

You guys have been so busy this morning LOL Great work by the way, and I only have a few thoughts to add.

* I still think Cassidy and the dog were in the same room with the door shut on them by the perp, but think once the action started the dog started barking, waking her up and she got out of bed and opened the door to see what was going on. There had to be noise - one LE officer said it was the most violent crime scene he had seen in 20+ years, and acc to JTF it was common for the dog to sleep in Cassidy's room

When Meredith asked Cassidy what hapopened, Cassidy was asking for a washrag and Mereedith said OK in a little bit. And when M asked C if her Mommy fall down, C started the sentence with the word Daddy and it sounded like she was in earnest telling M what she had seen. She wasn't crying or calling for her Daddy as the inflection of the word was all wrong. Even if he had someone with him, I believe JY was there in that house and Cassidy knew it was her Daddy. A bit later when M asked C if anyone else had been there I again heard the word Daddy.

We don't want to believe she saw who did this or that he would do this or be present with her there. It just might be he is pond scum and was as this was his mission do do away with Michelle as she was the one stumbling block in his life and he had to get rid of her.

If what Cassidy said was reported right away to police, it would be a big reason they thought it was an inside job and not a stranger.

* These are rumor points and so we don't know if they are true or false, but I have never read that JTF has disputed the statement that JY was unfaithful to her. She said JY loved her and that is a difference.

Also it was written that they either had filed for divorce or were about to do that.

* The 15 yr old is reported to have been in the home earlier on the night she died. This next door neighbor also hung with an older kid from the trailer park close by, and JY had a run in with these kids previously.

Don't know what you think or can use here Charlie. Scandi

Hi Scandi!

I must have missed where someone said that they were filing for divorce or were planning to do so. Which one of the insiders said that?

TIA

Ocean

 

[scandi]

Now don't laugh at me, but it was in a post I read last night at Misfitting written by Joe! Several things he has said were corrected by JTF or a poster {tax payment delinquent} but this statement was never addressed. And JTF was on that forum as well. He changed his nic in the middle of his/her posts.

Scandi

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Good Morning!

You guys have been so busy this morning LOL Great work by the way, and I only have a few thoughts to add.

* I still think Cassidy and the dog were in the same room with the door shut on them by the perp, but think once the action started the dog started barking, waking her up and she got out of bed and opened the door to see what was going on. There had to be noise - one LE officer said it was the most violent crime scene he had seen in 20+ years, and acc to JTF it was common for the dog to sleep in Cassidy's room

When Meredith asked Cassidy what hapopened, Cassidy was asking for a washrag and Mereedith said OK in a little bit. And when M asked C if her Mommy fall down, C started the sentence with the word Daddy and it sounded like she was in earnest telling M what she had seen. She wasn't crying or calling for her Daddy as the inflection of the word was all wrong. Even if he had someone with him, I believe JY was there in that house and Cassidy knew it was her Daddy. A bit later when M asked C if anyone else had been there I again heard the word Daddy.

We don't want to believe she saw who did this or that he would do this or be present with her there. It just might be he is pond scum and was as this was his mission do do away with Michelle as she was the one stumbling block in his life and he had to get rid of her.

If what Cassidy said was reported right away to police, it would be a big reason they thought it was an inside job and not a stranger.

* These are rumor points and so we don't know if they are true or false, but I have never read that JTF has disputed the statement that JY was unfaithful to her. She said JY loved her and that is a difference.

Also it was written that they either had filed for divorce or were about to do that.

* The 15 yr old is reported to have been in the home earlier on the night she died. This next door neighbor also hung with an older kid from the trailer park close by, and JY had a run in with these kids previously.

Don't know what you think or can use here Charlie. Scandi

More good muscle you've added, scandi! Thanks ... and I have to state that from the moment this guy grabbed these high profile attornies - I thought: uh-huh. Infidelity... if so ... marriage problems? Finance (immediate gain or saving future losses)?

And I can understand Cassie & family pet closed up in one room; or in separate rooms? We DONT know if the dog was 'free' - all we heard is Meredith say when she got there was that the "dog was freaking out" ..

Cassie knew how to go in her room - and possibly to close the door - so if/when she opened the door, the Dog would have moved out (lord I wish we knew "Humphrey's" name...).

Final (cold) thought. LE don't release all details to ensure 'hoax confessions' are ruled out. WHAAAAAAAT ... if Michelle was able to get off the bed (remember Mrs Porco) and ... attempt to identify the killer through her own wet fingerprints? Or something similar?

OK. ok. ok .....

 

[scandi]

Hi Annie,

Having watched a marathon of Miami CSI last night I am hopeful that Michelle either did something to name the killer or there was a fiber transfer somewhere in all that sticky blood. All that blood from the head wound says she didn't die right away after being slugged. There is going to definately be some evidence left at the crime scene. Have you ever seen a case where there was nothing?

I remember Dr Baden saying she was hit in the back of the head and it cracked her skull open so that it did damage to her actual brains. He must have been privy to some info like he always was in the SP case.

She must have been hit several times. But we don't know if they were successive hits or interrupted, which is maybe when she had a chance to get out of bed. BTW, I have also read it was an open casket at the funeral, so her face was not damaged, at least beyond the point to where they could make her look normal with makeup.

By the way Ocean, Joe is also the one who said the LE officer had stated it was the most violent or worst crime scene they had seen in 20+ years. Someone must have overheard this officer say this, right? I do believe that is true.

Scandi

 

[raisincharlie]

OK, I hear you loud and clear, charlie. So (correct me if I am wrong) - the def do not have to prove whatever the pros says, right? They may care less - other than to create reasonable doubt and punch holes in the pros theory by simply creating a 'watertight' alibi/rationale to the jury ...that JY was indeed the perp.

I know burden of proof rests with pros: and a motive does not have to be brought to the fore. However, am I crazy to believe that jurors also want to know "why" ?

I think jurors, just like us, always want to know why something happened. Motive is not a required element, rightfully so as no one can ever know with 100% certainty why someone would do what they do. Jurors are made aware that the why is not required for them to reach a verdict.

A water tight alibi will be very difficult if no one can account for JY between 11 pm and the time of his business meeting especially if the TOD lines up with the hours where no one can say they physically observed JY being. Water tight alibis might include but not be limited to, dead, in jail, in a locked mental ward, undergoing surgery ...:waitasec:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All murderers are, imo, as senseless and irrational as their crimes. All that you have mentioned makes me feel a 'stranger' would not sneak in, unleash an horrendous series of horrific blows, and then tip toe out of the place, leaving little untouched and no forced entry/exit.

That alone tells me this was planned. With JY conveniently outta town: the perp had one mission, and one mission only.

WHAT if ... (IF.... this was JY), he mentally tuned himself to leave no fingerprints, evidence and in so doing, did not realize his plan was so clean it made a "U" turn in everyday logic? Just as you say, short of having Class Act tatooed on his forehead, Ocean?

Polk it has happened before by strangers. Most victims are alone and vulnerable when attacked. Just the way of a criminal mind that preys on the weak and vulnerable imo. I am not going to rule out that a stranger wouldn't do this because I certainly know that they do come in and the home can show no forced entry and that they are capable of doing horrific overkill blows like inflicted to Michelle and no one sees a thing.

BUT it DOES look very bad for Jason and I can understand why he is in the cross hairs of the police as he should be. If he had a motive to do this I have no doubt LE will find that out about him. Especially if he is not as he has appeared during their marriage. Does he have a secret? If so then imo he is in deep stuff. It heightens his motive imo.

IMO

Ocean

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Hi Annie,

By the way Ocean, Joe is also the one who said the LE officer had stated it was the most violent or worst crime scene they had seen in 20+ years. Someone must have overheard this officer say this, right? I do believe that is true.

Scandi

Oh Lordie - and little Cassidy was there all the time, sounding so calm and (from the tape) not traumatized; more 'matter-of-fact' .... Little thing, surrounded by a gory scene and a dog going crazy...

You're right - there is *always* something forensics pick up...

I am convinced... almost to place hand on heart - that the 911 tape was spliced to keep some 'specifics' out of the public domain.

nightmarish stuff ... I have to say I don't recall the part where the brains were exposed. ee-gads ...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Now don't laugh at me, but it was in a post I read last night at Misfitting written by Joe! Several things he has said were corrected by JTF or a poster {tax payment delinquent} but this statement was never addressed. And JTF was on that forum as well. He changed his nic in the middle of his/her posts.

Scandi

Laugh at you! Never.

I just hadn't heard that before. I dont read Misfitting at all. Isn't that Loretta's site?

Thanks for telling me though.

BTW/ I can understand the police would say that it was the worst in 20 years. Bludgeonings dont happen nearly as often as strangulations, stabbings and shootings and it is absolutely the most brutal sadistic way to murder someone imo. It turns the room into a blood bath.

So depraved. People that are capable of doing this are sub-human imo.

IMO

Ocean

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I think jurors, just like us, always want to know why something happened. Motive is not a required element, rightfully so as no one can ever know with 100% certainty why someone would do what they do. Jurors are made aware that the why is not required for them to reach a verdict.

A water tight alibi will be very difficult if no one can account for JY between 11 pm and the time of his business meeting especially if the TOD lines up with the hours where no one can say they physically observed JY being. Water tight alibis might include but not be limited to, dead, in jail, in a locked mental ward, undergoing surgery ...:waitasec:

OK, thanks charlie (I know if I was every a juror I'd want to know WHY!) So: we're zooming in on LE's midnight to 6 timeline. As fran said - why would LE request info on a specific time if 'there was nothing' to indicate those hours? And with LE stating "even if you were there and saw nothing - then come and say - hey I was there and saw nothing.." because that means that the TIPSTER WAS THERE (to have seen nothing, that is)...

They're tightening down this window. It's just too much of a coincidence.

Have you considered - say - a hitman? I'm not a fan of this concept unless it's 'big time' money & crooks involved: too high a risk of being sold out or blackmailed. And if anyone asked me to do that, I'd go see Dr. Ray for a completely new identity: sure as eggs the person that aked me to do thatb would have me in their sights, too, one day...

But, again, not impossible.

(Aside: Packer's got me thinking long and hard about JY's love preferences...)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OK, thanks charlie (I know if I was every a juror I'd want to know WHY!) So: we're zooming in on LE's midnight to 6 timeline. As fran said - why would LE request info on a specific time if 'there was nothing' to indicate those hours? And with LE stating "even if you were there and saw nothing - then come and say - hey I was there and saw nothing.." because that means that the TIPSTER WAS THERE (to have seen nothing, that is)...

They're tightening down this window. It's just too much of a coincidence.

Have you considered - say - a hitman? I'm not a fan of this concept unless it's 'big time' money & crooks involved: too high a risk of being sold out or blackmailed. And if anyone asked me to do that, I'd go see Dr. Ray for a completely new identity: sure as eggs the person that aked me to do thatb would have me in their sights, too, one day...

But, again, not impossible.

(Aside: Packer's got me thinking long and hard about JY's love preferences...)

I have thought of a hit man but would a hit man kill the person this way? Seems too risky and messy. Just doesnt seem to be something a hit man would do but who in the heck knows....there isnt a certain rule on how killers murder people.

IMO

Ocean

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Polk it has happened before by strangers. Most victims are alone and vulnerable when attacked. Just the way of a criminal mind that preys on the weak and vulnerable imo. I am not going to rule out that a stranger wouldn't do this because I certainly know that they do come in and the home can show no forced entry and that they are capable of doing horrific overkill blows like inflicted to Michelle and no one sees a thing.

BUT it DOES looks very bad for Jason and I can understand why he is in the cross hairs of the police as he should be. If he had a motive to do this I have no doubt LE will find that out about him. Especially if he is not as he has appeared during their marriage. Does he have a secret? If so then imo he is in deep stuff. It heightens his motive imo.

IMO

Ocean

Well, they have to eliminate him and that clearly has not happened or else we'd have known about it. IF ... IF ... he's 'clean', then he did himself NO favours by walking out of Michelle's family, taking Cassie with him at this exceptionally tragic hour of need in their lives - and wrapping himself in HIS protective legal barriers and HIS family - for HIS grief and HIS right to remain silent.

He sure overdid it. Maybe that's his problem? He just over justifies, explains and details stuff making him look like a wild Dingo trying to act natural in the remake of 101 Dalmations...

 

[scandi]

I'm sure I saw Dr Baden on Greta, but it was back around the 17th. There has been almost nothing on this case now since that date.

I am right there with you Charlie thinking JY could possibly have had a coming out of the closet, so to speak. The two rumors, neither one contradicted by the insider who came here to set the record straight about what is true and what isn't, of unfaithfulness and possible trouble in the marriage to the point of possible divorce, speak loudly to me. Add to that the comment from JY's close friend Furrier, the gay guy, and it does give serious pause to contemplate a serious motive for wanting Michelle dead. And to keep Cassidy from harm.

Also, two other thoughts. The dog was JY's dog. Why would he be with M's family now? I don't think we know for sure the dog is there.

And JY was the only one of reasonable suspicion' to get the warrant needed for testing of DNA,. etc. Isn't it interesting that JTF said so much about the 15 year old and his friend and the problems with the previous owner, and this kid was never put under warrant to give a sample of his DNA! A definite red herring I suspect.

SCandi

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I have thought of a hit man but would a hit man kill the person this way? Seems too risky and messy. Just doesnt seem to be something a hit man would do but who in the heck knows....there isnt a certain rule on how killers murder people.

IMO

Ocean

Nah, they are not emotionally attached: they 'complete' the mission clinically, as you say. Unless it was a lover hired/tempted to do "whatever"? Some people lose sight of reality when there are $$$ attached to a task...

------------------

On another note: does anyone know what Jason did before he joined ChartOne? Was he out of jobs frequently? Was Michelle the breadwinner? (Not that that is a bad sign - like many women before and after me: I kneaded the dough for a couple of years and have absolutely no regrets: wasn't easy - but no ways did my huz lose his sense of self - situations call for this .... and you just hang in there.)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, they have to eliminate him and that clearly has not happened or else we'd have known about it. IF ... IF ... he's 'clean', then he did himself NO favours by walking out of Michelle's family, taking Cassie with him at this exceptionally tragic hour of need in their lives - and wrapping himself in HIS protective legal barriers and HIS family - for HIS grief and HIS right to remain silent.

He sure overdid it. Maybe that's his problem? He just over justifies, explains and details stuff making him look like a wild Dingo trying to act natural in the remake of 101 Dalmations...

I dont think LE is going to come out and say anyone is ruled out or in until the arrest occurs. The only murder case I can remember them even commenting on that was the Shandra Levy case where the PC said they were not looking at Gary Condit as a suspect but stressed "at this time".

Yep he sure isn't helping matters if he is innocent imo. If he is guilty then he is trying to protect himself from incriminating himself and I am sure his lawyer told him "Dont say a word to anyone but me".

IMO

Ocean

 

[scandi]

Hi Annie,

JTF said both M and J earned good money, but I think for a 32 year old man who has been married for what, 3 years or so, to have only worked at his last job for 3 months is a definite red flag!~

And if JY ordered the hit, it could have been done to his specifications. Because Cassidy was so adamant about the way swhe tried to tell about her Daddy, I think JY was there. Even if a friend of his did the killing. I just read a post at CTV where it said Meredith and her mom are quite convinced that JY is the killer, for what its worth. Don't know the poster that said this.

I think we all suspect that LE also feels there was a car parked outside that house between 12 and 6pm, and there has to be a very good reason they think this. It isn't because someone crawled through a window or came in by walking to the house or had entered the house beforehand. Whoever did this drove to the house between these hours.

Scandi

ETA: Yesterday at CTV, JTF stated she will not be posting there anymore. Bet she also got the word from the attorney. The waters have been felt, and think they might be worried about them being muddied!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm sure I saw Dr Baden on Greta, but it was back around the 17th. There has been almost nothing on this case now since that date.

I am right there with you Charlie thinking JY could possibly have had a coming out of the closet, so to speak. The two rumors, neither one contradicted by the insider who came here to set the record straight about what is true and what isn't, of unfaithfulness and possible trouble in the marriage to the point of possible divorce, speak loudly to me. Add to that the comment from JY's close friend Furrier, the gay guy, and it does give serious pause to contemplate a serious motive for wanting Michelle dead. And to keep Cassidy from harm.

Also, two other thoughts. The dog was JY's dog. Why would he be with M's family now? I don't think we know for sure the dog is there.

And JY was the only one of reasonable suspicion' to get the warrant needed for testing of DNA,. etc. Isn't it interesting that JTF said so much about the 15 year old and his friend and the problems with the previous owner, and this kid was never put under warrant to give a sample of his DNA! A definite red herring I suspect.

SCandi

I know people can volunteer to give their fingerprints without a search warrant but I always thought if they were wanting DNA even a non-testimonial order they had to go through a Judge to make it legally recognized.

He didn't even have to talk with them or give them a statement. Many times these non-testimonial orders are used to included and exclude.

And JYs lawyer had every right to fight this order through the court system but JY did not protest.

Ocean

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Oooh. My FBI/Forensic Detectives are about to start! Then I am hitting the sack. It's been great in here again tonight: thanks all for the warmth, humour and ongoing sleuthing!

Leaving you all with a couple of thoughts - scandi dropped the first one in my mind having mentioned JTF and Misfits:

1. Any thoughts have the Jasonites hit other forums and blogs and not W/S? We come up in google every time...

2. Bludgeoning is an exceptionally savage way to murder someone. Why opt for this method? Lord, with the latest Russian Spy radioactive murder - there are cleaner and more mystifying ways to commit a crime like this (not giving tips or supporting ANY murder). The perp had to know a baby was in the house: to leave a body like that ... is just heinous. (I know it was supposed to look like an intruder attack...)

3. Do you think LE found footprints or tire tracks around the property?

4. Finally, wufdude - where are you?

'Night close :blowkiss:, jilly, ocean, taxi, charlie, fran, scandi, packer, otto, lurkers and gerkas : MrsM - you're missed with Boyz_mom: see ya later