Miley Cyrus - what the heck happened?

[Gardenlady]

So can we stop with these generalizations and accusations of shaming? shaming is about shaming a woman for enjoying her sexuality. Miley writhes around with dead or angry eyes. There is no enjoyment on her part.

My criticism has zero to do with Puritanism. It has to do with the fact that Miley's act was vulgarity with absolutely nothing else. It was debasing to her and all women.

So please stop.

Well being 40, I include myself in "older" lol.

But you are doing exactly what you defined shaming as: shaming a woman for enjoying her sexuality! How is what everyone here doing NOT exactly that?

Did Miley tell you all that she wasn't enjoying herself? How do you all know? She looked like she was having a great time to me. It's patronizing to cite something completely subjective like "dead angry eyes" as evidence of her not enjoying herself, and assuming that she isn't. Unless and until Miley tells everyone she was having a horrible time up there grinding away, it's patronizing to assume otherwise. As if a woman could be never possibly be sexual ("vulgar", if you prefer) and enjoy it.

 

[Gardenlady]

I wanted to add in, without editing - the reason I listed "older people" as a separate group (and again, that would include people my own age) is because they are the age groups most likely to bemoan "culture/kids/music/art isn't what it used to be!". You're very unlikely to find folks under 25, say, using this argument.

 

[gitana1]

SBM

Sorry, but what metric could you possibly be using here to measure the disdain of the entertainment industry? Twitter wasn't around during the big Madonna/Britney shocker. And what does it prove even if this thing you are stating as fact was even quantifiable? Possibly sour grapes on their part that she's the one getting 24 hour media coverage, the she is the "story" of this year's VMAs?

I'm also unmoved by the opinions of her talent. Aside from Lady Gaga, very few top-40 pop stars in the "Britney" mold have exceptional vocal skills, and they ALL use auto-tune. This argument is totally specious.

Editing to add: liberal females are completely capable of falling into -shaming without consciously realizing it. (I speak as one; I catch myself doing it and I have to make my brain override the reflex.)

Performers have always had mediums with which to publicize their attitudes about other performers and we've had tv for some time so we can compare the reactions of fellow performers to Britney, Et al.

Oh, and I take it you believe Miley is talented? If so, I don't know there is much to debate. I think her fellow entertainers recognize talent when they see it. Paula Abdul, Britney Spears as judges on Idol despite their weak vocal abilities is evidence of that as they seem to recognize the vocal abilities of others.

Finally, if you are accusing me of subconscious shaming I think that's a cheap way to support your argument.

Again, Miley is not being criticized by most for her sexuality. It's for using sexuality in a calculating yet immature way, in a manner debasing to women, with no message, no artistry, not even any entertainment value behind it.

It was a floor show. Not a pop performance.

And what bothered me until I saw most public and professional reaction is the thought that this is what entertainment has devolved into. Based on reaction, though, I remain hopeful.

 

[Softail]

Seriously?

Miley Cyrus
RIPPED BY TEDDY BEAR ORG.
They're For Cuddling, NOT Twerking!

Miley Cyrus is CORRUPTING the cuddly, innocent reputation of teddy bears -- and she needs to be stopped ASAP ... so says a prominent teddy bear organization (yes, they actually exist).

In case you've been living under a rock -- Miley's been under fire ever since she bumped, grinded and twerked her crotch through an army of seemingly drugged out teddy bears during her VMA performance.

Now, a rep for the Teddy Bear Fund -- an org. dedicated to giving out stuffed animals at abuse shelters -- tells TMZ, "Miley made a poor choice to use a universally loved children's teddy bear in an offensive way."

"There is always good art and bad art -- unfortunately ... this was bad art," the rep adds.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/27/miley-cyrus-teddy-bear-org-blasted/#ixzz2dCf2OEaw
Visit Fishwrapper: http://www.fishwrapper.com

 

[gitana1]

Well being 40, I include myself in "older" lol.

But you are doing exactly what you defined shaming as: shaming a woman for enjoying her sexuality! How is what everyone here doing NOT exactly that?

Did Miley tell you all that she wasn't enjoying herself? How do you all know? She looked like she was having a great time to me. It's patronizing to cite something completely subjective like "dead angry eyes" as evidence of her not enjoying herself, and assuming that she isn't. Unless and until Miley tells everyone she was having a horrible time up there grinding away, it's patronizing to assume otherwise. As if a woman could be never possibly be sexual ("vulgar", if you prefer) and enjoy it.

I think you are twisting the term to heights never before thought of. If that's enjoyment I'm sad for her. And which is it? A calculated attempt to provoke or real, spontaneous enjoyment?

The term has to do with categorizing sexuality and sexual enjoyment as slutty behavior, not watching a Floor show and describing it as slutty. The way you are defining the term, interpreting a street walker's behavior and dress as slutty is shaming. I guess I just define it differently.

But I suppose I'm not surprised by the extension of the term. Little girls have been taught to shake it on stage and flirt while wearing heavy make up for years now at beauty pageants and even cheer and dance competitions. I guess if we driticze that, we are shaming too.

Perhaps I am old. What I think of as the costuming, facial expressions and dance moves of women who sell their sex for money is now the norm and if we categorize it as the costuming, facial expressions and dance Moves of women who sell their sex for money, we are shaming others for enjoying sex.

You see it as sexual enjoyment. I see it is the panicked attempt to stay relevant of a highly exploited, former child star. You see it as fun. I see it as desperately sad and anti-woman.

But I guess I'm just a secret prude angry at Miley for publicly expressing her "fun" side.

 

[HMSHood]

I think you are twisting the term to heights never before thought of. If that's enjoyment I'm sad for her. And which is it? A calculated attempt to provoke or real, spontaneous enjoyment?

The term has to do with categorizing sexuality and sexual enjoyment as slutty behavior, not watching a Floor show and describing it as slutty. The way you are defining the term, interpreting a street walker's behavior and dress as slutty is shaming. I guess I just define it differently.

But I suppose I'm not surprised by the extension of the term. Little girls have been taught to shake it on stage and flirt while wearing heavy make up for years now at beauty pageants and even cheer and dance competitions. I guess if we driticze that, we are shaming too.

Perhaps I am old. What I think of as the costuming, facial expressions and dance moves of women who sell their sex for money is now the norm and if we categorize it as the costuming, facial expressions and dance
Moves of women who sell their sex for money, we are shaming others for enjoying sex.

You see it as sexual enjoyment. I see it is the panicked attempt to stay relevant of a highly exploited, former child star. You see it as fun. I see it as desperately sad.

But I guess I'm just a secret prude angry at Miley for publicly expressing her "fun" side.

Exactly. I also blame her father, Billy Ray Cyrus, for not lying down the law. Her father is an one-hit wonder, so he wants to re-live his glory days. Sad, isn't it?

It is even worse than Amanda Bynes or Britney Spears as they have mental illness. Also, she started earlier than them.

 

[Gardenlady]

I think you are twisting the term to heights never before thought of. If that's enjoyment I'm sad for her. And which is it? A calculated attempt to provoke or real, spontaneous enjoyment?

The term has to do with categorizing sexuality and sexual enjoyment as slutty behavior, not watching a Floor show and describing it as slutty. The way you are defining the term, interpreting a street walker's behavior and dress as slutty is shaming. I guess I just define it differently.

Actually no, it's pretty bog standard to characterize the type of criticism Miley is getting as " shaming". It refers not just to actual sexual activities and habits, but perceptions of such, as well as characterizing dress/appearance/etc as slutty or any of its related adjectives. Here's one item I found from a quick Google, from back in 2010, describing shaming, and it includes exactly this type of behavior:

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-🤬🤬🤬🤬-shaming/

Not to mention the misogynism inherent in body shaming ("she doesn't even have curves!", "she's shaped like a boy!", "she's not even pretty!").

But I suppose I'm not surprised by the extension of the term. Little girls have been taught to shake it on stage and flirt while wearing heavy make up for years now at beauty pageants and even cheer and dance competitions. I guess if we driticze that, we are shaming too.

That's a false equivalence. Little girls are little girls, who haven't even gone through puberty, and can't consent to what is being done to them in those venues. There is absolutely no comparison between a 20 year old woman freely deciding how she presents herself, and say, a 10 year old dressed in a sexualized costume.

Perhaps I am old. What I think of as the costuming, facial expressions and dance moves of women who sell their sex for money is now the norm and if we categorize it as the costuming, facial expressions and dance Moves of women who sell their sex for money, we are shaming others for enjoying sex.

Do you not see how your equation of "selling sex for money" as being something "wrong" with women, is demeaning to sex workers who choose to be such, and worse, to women who don't choose that profession freely but instead are exploited into such a position?

You see it as sexual enjoyment. I see it is the panicked attempt to stay relevant of a highly exploited, former child star. You see it as fun. I see it as desperately sad and anti-woman.

Ok, these are valid criticisms, and totally worth having a discussion about. I agree the performance was problematic for a few reasons. But that isn't the discussion that's going on here, or elsewhere. The focus has continually been on shaming Miley as "trashy", "slutty", "gross", "ugly", "unattractive", "vulgar". Not about say, her exploited childhood, or about how it possibly is damaging to women. Nor does anyone make mention of Robin Thicke's participation in that.

But I guess I'm just a secret prude angry at Miley for publicly expressing her "fun" side.

Dunno about that. I don't think so, based on your posting history, which I have always admired, fwiw.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

In my opinion:

The new sexy is modesty. Gatsby gone Glam.

It has become so easy to get attention for showing skin that it's nothing shocking (good stones album btw) anymore.

It's shock pop.

Eventually people get annoyed with it and crave modesty and sincerity. And then everyone gets bored and wants the annoying shock pop again.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

She knows better than to dance around like that for attention when she was given such an amazing vocal talent. It reminds me of Madonna. Yet Madonna is the #1 profiting musician in the industry.

Then again I'm sure people said the same about Marilyn Monroe when she stood over that air vent while wearing a white sexy dress.... And we all know her IQ was well above average. So I perhaps the joke is on me.

She got my attention, even if I responded negatively to it myself.. Marilyn, Madonna, and... Miley?

Huh...

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Visually and aesthetically is just wan't appealing....her and Thicke.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I don't think it's the fact she put on an act that made her look like a total idiot that is the main shocker, the main shocker is that she did it in such an obviously stupid way when she was already successful and making records before all that. Who is advising her, where is her manager, creative director, choreographer etc? Doesn't Miley have an image consultant? At the end of the day it comes down to management.

Anyway so I looked that up and found this > http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/miley-cyrus-evolution-is-organic-579958, he also manages Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and Jessica Simpson. LOL!!!!! Well then, I think it's time to fire this guy and find someone who manages someone that she actually might want to emulate IF she is genuinely trying to move herself beyond her teeny-bopper image.

She is clearly getting bad advice.

 

[LinasK]

So your objection is that she wore an outfit that covers more than many bikinis, and sticks her tongue out? Not what she was acting out?

No, my objection is her sticking her butt in the guy's face and simulating mastubation. She can enjoy sex all she wants, I don't need to see it and neither does my 12-year-old! It wasn't appropriate either IMO when Michael Jackson would grab his crotch, vulgar and disgusting!!!

 

[LinasK]

My kids grew up watching Hannah Montana (secretly I did too). I read her book and really thought that she may turn out okay. She might. I know there have been reports of some marijuana use (from memory don't take it for fact please). There has been much speculation that this latest song is talking about Molly's...a drug. Personally...I think she is trying to break free from the Hannah Montana image and feels this is the best way to do it...ugh...that is too bad that we as society want to see that kind of entertainment...but, this is what we respond to...as evidenced by...MC having her own thread on WS after her train wreck of a show on the VMAs. I thought the performance was awful...singing was atrocious...sexual gestures were offensive...the foam finger needs tested...the bears were creepy...and it was exactly what MC or her managers intended. Look at the publicity...probably the most talked about performance...well played MC. Well played. Entertainment today is pure psychology.

Hey, Selena Gomez was a Barney girl and Annette Funnicello was one of the original mouseketteers. Neither of them resorted to unclassy stripping to update their image....

 

[LinasK]

My lil gdaughter still wears a Hannah Montana gown handed down from an older cousin who adored MC/HM. It's so worn...soft and sleep-perfect.
Well...it just hit the TRASH. Cuz, I sure aint gonna wash it again!
She won't miss it...and if she asks...I'll explain.

It's my lil way of making a difference!

I applaud you for doing this, that's what I'd be doing, boycotting Hannah Montana merchandise, because Miley Cyrus is a terrible role model for girls, is this what we want our daughters to aspire to? Using their bodies in public instead of being productive with their minds????

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hey, and didn't Robin come off as a sleaze? I thought so anyway, I mean I already thought he was a douche, but that one sealed it.

 

[vulture]

IMO it's the sexual nature of Miley's performance that everyone is objecting to. Which is very problematic, because why should she be shamed for acting like a woman who enjoys sex, and the men don't?

I'm all for people enjoying sex, just not in public.

 

[LinasK]

One thing though. The VMAs is not an all ages event. It was rated 14 years and up. And I don't think Miley is corrupting teenagers. They have likely seen worse already. It's the little girls and boys whose parents let them watch this stuff without comment that may be affected. In fact, it's little girls who are all over Fb thrusting their tongues out like Miley, not so much adult women.

My 12-year-old did NOT watch the show, yet she had seen Miley's outfit because it was all over the media. So for not just performing for her "target" audience, all ages have at least seen Miley's outfit, if not the video. I caught it on HLN, of all places, while looking for coverage of Jodi Arias's hearing on Mon!

 

[revampz]

I have read quite a few comments from different pages on this. Someone above said it was a generational thing. Most of the comments I have read even from her generation said it was gross and over the top.

The other thing I have noticed is the amount of guys her age commenting, and not good, we all know the words they are using....rhymes with tank is one of the nicer. Most are saying how unattractive they found it.

I do hope Miley and other girls read those types of comments, I think too many girls these days think they have to show it all and show how much they like sex and could be up for it to appear to be attractive and sexy. I think (and judging by the males comments I have read) they are getting it so wrong. The girl that Ashton Kutcher goes out with, I can not remember her first name, starts with M and surname Kunis has been voted by males as the sexiest girl at the moment.

I have not seen her dancing around showing all her bits to prove she is sexy. In fact she is a pretty, feminine, strong, funny girl.

 

[LinasK]

I have read quite a few comments from different pages on this. Someone above said it was a generational thing. Most of the comments I have read even from her generation said it was gross and over the top.

The other thing I have noticed is the amount of guys her age commenting, and not good, we all know the words they are using....rhymes with tank is one of the nicer. Most are saying how unattractive they found it.

I do hope Miley and other girls read those types of comments, I think too many girls these days think they have to show it all and show how much they like sex and could be up for it to appear to be attractive and sexy. I think (and judging by the males comments I have read) they are getting it so wrong. The girl that Ashton Kutcher goes out with, I can not remember her first name, starts with M and surname Kunis has been voted by males as the sexiest girl at the moment.

I have not seen her dancing around showing all her bits to prove she is sexy. In fact she is a pretty, feminine, strong, funny girl.

That'd be Mila Kunis, whose character I hated in That 70's Show, but loved in Oz, the Great and Powerful! She is beautiful.

 

[momtective]

Yeah, I remember an article about Miley some years back in which someone was quoted saying they recalled her as a little kid running around on the Cyrus family farm, just totally bratty and spoiled.

And who can forget the photo shoot Miley did at age 15, draped seductively on top of her father while wearing skin tight jeans and then naked, covered with only a revealing sheet on a bed? Ick.

Also, her dad tweeted something today about how we should all just let Mikey grow the way she wants to. Yeah, I think he did a bit too much "allowing". The problem with that is society can tend to be a bit less generous. Don't give your kid consequences? Society will, eventually.

He's (Billy Ray) either livid or laughing all the way to the bank. If she were my daughter...I would be mortified.

 

[Maxymoo]

I have read quite a few comments from different pages on this. Someone above said it was a generational thing. Most of the comments I have read even from her generation said it was gross and over the top.

:banghead:
You misunderstood I too have heard teens and twenty somethings both male and female commenting on how cheep and nasty the whole thing was.

On a sight that had them voting on which part of the performance they found the most "gross" her bent over in front of the old sleeze
was most voted for.

AND no matter what Her dad really thinks.:rockon: I was glad to hear him defend her.