Millard Properties: Locations and Ownership

[Kamille]

I think you will find that the previous poster was referring to the fact that the dark vehicle that was at first allegedly following the Bosma truck has been through various metamorphoses since the beginning. Sometimes a truck and sometimes the Yukon according to various postings. HTH

Truck:
http://johntrembley.com/wp-content/...rims-flat-black-decal---f150online-forums.jpg

Yukon:

http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2007_gmc_yukon_slt_suv_100305841124528778.jpg

I think I asked for a link to that info since I do not recall it ever being reported that it was another black truck following TB's black truck. Didn't want the misconception that there was any "shapeshifting" going on.

There are two black trucks in question. One that apparently stole MM's trailer and motorcycle which were found in DM's hangar and one that was stolen and found in DM's trailer in his mother's driveway after it's owner was murdered. No shapeshifting going on here.

 

[Tamarind]

I think I asked for a link to that info since I do not recall it ever being reported that it was another black truck following TB's black truck. Didn't want the misconception that there was any "shapeshifting" going on.

There are two black trucks in question. One that apparently stole MM's trailer and motorcycle which were found in DM's hangar and one that was stolen and found in DM's trailer in his mother's driveway after it's owner was murdered. No shapeshifting going on here.

Shapeshifting or metamorphoses, either or were simply referring to the fact that the vehicle allegedly following Bosma truck has been referred to as a truck and or an SUV, regardless of what is was. Fact is no actual proof has ever been forthcoming as to what was following the Bosma truck, in contrast to the truck that reportedly was involved in the Harley theft.

 

[Variant]

A black TRUCK allegedly stole the Harley, not a dark SUV. Presumable MM the expert on motorcycles has a clue about the difference between a truck and an SUV. He no doubt grilled the one who claimed they saw it being taken for details of the vehicle, hence TRUCK not SUV. JMO

LOL. Lots of people call the Yukon a truck. Google "Yukon truck".

The Yukon was and remains basically the same as the GMC Sierra pick-up; built on the same frame and suspension, just as big and just as capable of towing a load. The difference is the cab and bed are replaced with a fully enclosed body.

SUV was created as a marketing term to entice those who didn't like the idea that they were driving a truck, and initially used by the manufacturers to get around safety requirements. SUVs were classified by the NHTSA as trucks , which were held to much lower safety standards than passenger vehicles.

Quite possible the witnesses would call the huge Yukon a truck, especially if they are the type who know a truck when they see one.

 

[Kamille]

A vehicle was spotted following Bosma's truck during the test drive. Hamilton police say that vehicle was a GMC Yukon belonging to Millard. It has been seized by police and is being analyzed for evidence.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ler-tried-to-arrange-3rd-test-drive-1.1302075

Are we expecting to see the actual video evidence before the trial as proof? I don't even know if DM is disputing that it was his Yukon following TB's truck. Likely he isn't and is probably claiming that it was in fact him driving it and MS is the one who drove off with TB in the Ram. Police indicated right from the first day they had the video that it was an SUV. After investigating they have determined that it was DM's Yukon according to MSM. That's all the "proof" we're gonna get before the trial. Same as the "proof" that a black truck stole MM's trailer/motorcycle. We didn't see the video of that either. Just have the MSM report to go by.

 

[Tamarind]

LOL. Lots of people call the Yukon a truck. Google "Yukon truck".

Precisely, but I don't care what people call it, a Yukon is an SUV and not a truck. These anomalies are very important when discussing EVIDENCE. The evidence needs to be accurate. IMO.

If you google Yukon you get snowy scenery so googling is not helpful for getting accuracy imo.

The Yukon was and remains basically the same as the GMC Sierra pick-up; built on the same frame and suspension, just as big and just as capable of towing a load. The difference is the cab and bed are replaced with a fully enclosed body.

Yes it is different, not the same, my point exactly.

SUV was created as a marketing term to entice those who didn't like the idea that they were driving a truck, and initially used by the manufacturers to get around safety requirements. SUVs were classified by the NHTSA as trucks , which were held to much lower safety standards than passenger vehicles.

Getting around safety requirements is one thing but getting to the truth is another JMO

Quite possible the witnesses would call the huge Yukon a truck, especially if they are the type who know a truck when they see one.

Then the witnesses will need to be shown pictures to show them the difference between a Yukon SUV and a truck IMO. No good having witnesses who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. JMO

But it isn't a truck and simple eyewitness errors are a matter of importance when trials come around IMO.

 

[matou]

a blue suv

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/5+...m2!3m1!1s0x882b386cca678bd7:0x13ad2047b2e8a31

a black truck

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/32...2!3m1!1s0x882b243fa1b3392b:0xb8d64831c796f4fb

nice!

 

[Tamarind]

nice!

Plenty of black trucks around eh? Make me wonder how someone allegedly saw a black truck at night in Brantford and found it odd enough to call police apparently. Especially when you find out that many people think SUV's are trucks too, I find it quite astonishing that a black truck or SUV driving through a city would be instantly noteworthy considering the vast amount and the mistaken identities of SUV's JMO

 

[swedie]

Was his phone number shown, I don't recall?

"I don't know how it went but someone may have done a reverse look-up to get my address because soon after the bike and trailer were gone," he said.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

 

[Carli]

Blue, black, truck or suv, I think we may potentially be in error in determining that the Yukon was actually a following vehicle. Yes, we know it has been reported that LE seized the Yukon (and there could be any number of good investigative reasons for that, only one of which would be to try to determine if the vehicle bore significant resemblance to the one reportedly recorded on a Brantford cam, such as the same licence plate # for instance?). I say that because, even if TB's truck was being followed by a Yukon, I presume there is more than one of those model vehicles in southern Ontario. Where shape shifting comes into play however is that, at the location where TB's cell phone was so miraculously found, apparently there was no sign of this vehicle.

Incidentally, I'd be far more interested in any available description of intercepting vehicle(s) than following vehicle(s). MOO

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-dead-hamilton-police_n_3272365.html

Police are also looking for at least one more person, as video evidence shows another vehicle following Bosma's pickup truck when he left on the test drive, Kavanagh said."We do not know at this time how many people were in that second vehicle. So right now we're looking at least three, possibly more.''Bosma's cellphone was found three days later in an industrial area of neighbouring city of Brantford. However, "no other vehicle'' can be seen on surveillance video in that area, Kavanagh said.

We still seem to be a person or two short, imo, particularly if we place MS as driver of the Yukon. (Would DM have actually allowed that?) This leaves DM having to effect a murder while driving - not impossible but certainly challenging. IMO nothing fits on the simplest walk-through model. Hopefully the trial will unlock the puzzle and provide the prosecutors their win. Again, hopefully the right persons are presently charged because otherwise a very large bill will be Ontario's reward at day's end, IMO, IMHO.

Speaking of cell phones, can someone please remind me of an important detail? I thought the only phone LE had found was that belonging to TB. Yet, we also learned that DM allegedly placed a call to another Ram owner but the guy slept in and missed the call. Does this mean LE has DM's phone, too? (Otherwise how would that third arrangement show up on the radar?) Where was DM's phone found? Maybe that info has been posted but I have no recollection of it. So we assume it something LE seized on one of their searches? In such cases does LE call up everybody in the cell's phonebook or what? If so, how come more connections aren't being reported in the press, given that we've been told this phone was active for months before the TB test drive.

Anyway, I'm puzzled about how the sleeping third contact could know he'd received a phone call from DM. Was the number published somewhere? If so what was it? Maybe lots and lots of people received calls from that number. Who were they? Were they/are they in danger? I, for one, would really like to know that number.

https://www.facebook.com/DellenMillardDiscussTheCase/posts/184993488327566

Det. Sgt. Matt Kavanagh told CP24 that a man in the Toronto area received a phone call on May 5 from the same cell phone that was used to contact Bosma and another Toronto man, who had both advertised their pickup trucks for sale online.
He said the third man slept through the call, so a test drive could not be arranged. The man had listed his truck for sale online on Kijiji and Autotrader. He has been interviewed by police.

 

[swedie]

The black truck that hauled away MM's trailer and HD, maybe it was the same truck seen delivering DM's trailer with TB's truck inside to MB's driveway. There is no mention of the colour but... IIRC investigators had collected surveillance from resident(s) on Tinsmith Court. They also seized surveillance from DM's neighbour on Maple Gate. Maybe "that" truck is one of the same and will show up in all the surveillance, who was driving and other important evidence. Hmm, all this surveillance, wonderful, wonderful. MOO.

Bob D, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while D and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

Neighbours told CBC News they were awakened late Thursday night by the bright lights and noise of a truck backing up. It dropped off the trailer in Millard's mother's driveway and left.

Neighbours told CBC News the lights of the truck were so bright, they couldn't make out a licence plate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...pearance-staying-silent-lawyer-says-1.1330722

 

[Kamille]

Blue, black, truck or suv, I think we may potentially be in error in determining that the Yukon was actually a following vehicle. Yes, we know it has been reported that LE seized the Yukon (and there could be any number of good investigative reasons for that, only one of which would be to try to determine if the vehicle bore significant resemblance to the one reportedly recorded on a Brantford cam, such as the same licence plate # for instance?). I say that because, even if TB's truck was being followed by a Yukon, I presume there is more than one of those model vehicles in southern Ontario. Where shape shifting comes into play however is that, at the location where TB's cell phone was so miraculously found, apparently there was no sign of this vehicle.

Incidentally, I'd be far more interested in any available description of intercepting vehicle(s) than following vehicle(s). MOO

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-dead-hamilton-police_n_3272365.html

Police are also looking for at least one more person, as video evidence shows another vehicle following Bosma's pickup truck when he left on the test drive, Kavanagh said."We do not know at this time how many people were in that second vehicle. So right now we're looking at least three, possibly more.''Bosma's cellphone was found three days later in an industrial area of neighbouring city of Brantford. However, "no other vehicle'' can be seen on surveillance video in that area, Kavanagh said.

We still seem to be a person or two short, imo, particularly if we place MS as driver of the Yukon. (Would DM have actually allowed that?) This leaves DM having to effect a murder while driving - not impossible but certainly challenging. IMO nothing fits on the simplest walk-through model. Hopefully the trial will unlock the puzzle and provide the prosecutors their win. Again, hopefully the right persons are presently charged because otherwise a very large bill will be Ontario's reward at day's end, IMO, IMHO.

Speaking of cell phones, can someone please remind me of an important detail? I thought the only phone LE had found was that belonging to TB. Yet, we also learned that DM allegedly placed a call to another Ram owner but the guy slept in and missed the call. Does this mean LE has DM's phone, too? (Otherwise how would that third arrangement show up on the radar?) Where was DM's phone found? Maybe that info has been posted but I have no recollection of it. So we assume it something LE seized on one of their searches? In such cases does LE call up everybody in the cell's phonebook or what? If so, how come more connections aren't being reported in the press, given that we've been told this phone was active for months before the TB test drive.

Why would "we" be in error? We are not the detectives on this case and the ones who are have determined it was DM's Yukon. The proof of that will be shown at trial. We don't even have any indication that DM is disputing that. Or do we?

You're quoting early information which was speculation from Hamilton LE based on early incoming information. The investigation has progressed and a task force set up. LE no longer believed there was a threat to the community in regards to a third person after the date of that article. In fact Det Kavanaugh said it would be "tunnel vision" to keep believing that there was a third person. He also thought it would be tunnel vision to declare there definitely was not.

“As an investigator, you always talk about tunnel vision and I think it’d be tunnel vision for me to say that I definitely believe there’s a third person or to say there wasn’t,” Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh said Wednesday. “It’s possible that there’s only two involved and it’s also possible that there may have been a third. And so we’re looking into that and we still have some doors to shut, some avenues of investigation.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

I guess they shut those doors during their investigation. Good thing those detectives don't have tunnel vision.

Why would the murder have to occur while driving? Can't the driver, who has control of the vehicle, stop the vehicle? Even get out with keys leaving the passenger stranded and vulnerable. My logic goes there. Not some contortionist murder with a vehicle in motion. Hey maybe it was in the area where TB's phone was found.

Regarding the burner phone. No idea if they have it but they have the number, which lead to the provider and means they have the records of every phone number that was communicating with that phone via voice or text. No possible way to block numbers from the phone providers even if you block them from your contacts. Cool how that works isn't it?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Plenty of black trucks around eh? Make me wonder how someone allegedly saw a black truck at night in Brantford and found it odd enough to call police apparently. Especially when you find out that many people think SUV's are trucks too, I find it quite astonishing that a black truck or SUV driving through a city would be instantly noteworthy considering the vast amount and the mistaken identities of SUV's JMO

Ever been on the Main Street of a small town at 10pm on a Monday night? Not much traffic. Maybe the spotter knew TB and his truck. Maybe he/she is a fan of Dodge Ram Trucks? Maybe the vehicle was speeding and stood out for that reason. Maybe it was being followed closely and both vehicles were driving erratically which made them stand out. So many maybes. LE know who this person was and they haven't been arrested so I'm not sure what you're implying.

 

[Carli]

Why would "we" be in error? We are not the detectives on this case and the ones who are have determined it was DM's Yukon. The proof of that will be shown at trial. We don't even have any indication that DM is disputing that. Or do we?

You're quoting early information which was speculation from Hamilton LE based on early incoming information. The investigation has progressed and a task force set up. LE no longer believed there was a threat to the community in regards to a third person after the date of that article. In fact Det Kavanaugh said it would be "tunnel vision" to keep believing that there was a third person. He also thought it would be tunnel vision to declare there definitely was not.

“As an investigator, you always talk about tunnel vision and I think it’d be tunnel vision for me to say that I definitely believe there’s a third person or to say there wasn’t,” Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh said Wednesday. “It’s possible that there’s only two involved and it’s also possible that there may have been a third. And so we’re looking into that and we still have some doors to shut, some avenues of investigation.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

I guess they shut those doors during their investigation. Good thing those detectives don't have tunnel vision.

Why would the murder have to occur while driving? Can't the driver, who has control of the vehicle, stop the vehicle? Even get out with keys leaving the passenger stranded and vulnerable. My logic goes there. Not some contortionist murder with a vehicle in motion. Hey maybe it was in the area where TB's phone was found.

Regarding the burner phone. No idea if they have it but they have the number, which lead to the provider and means they have the records of every phone number that was communicating with that phone via voice or text. No possible way to block numbers from the phone providers even if you block them from your contacts. Cool how that works isn't it?

MOO

Hmm. Well, forgive me but I still don't understand how the lucky third potential victim could possibly have perceived he'd also received a call from the wandering thrill killers. MOO. Was the "burner" phone number published somewhere? Were people who had received a call from that number asked to contact LE?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Hmm. Well, forgive me but I still don't understand how the lucky third potential victim could possibly have perceived he'd also received a call from the wandering thrill killers. MOO. Was the "burner" phone number published somewhere? Were people who had received a call from that number asked to contact LE?

Production order on the phone number that called TB --> all the numbers that the burner phone called

 

[Carli]

Right. Thanks. Completely forgot about that. (Je me souviens Pierre Poutine - or at least I should.) So, then, the concensus is that LE phoned all the numbers that emanated from the burner phone which led them to the third potential victim? And that the burner phone was personally acquired by and in the sole possession of DM who made these calls?

 

[swedie]

A blue SUV

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/5+...m2!3m1!1s0x882b386cca678bd7:0x13ad2047b2e8a31

A black truck

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/32...2!3m1!1s0x882b243fa1b3392b:0xb8d64831c796f4fb

Woah! Nice find Kamille. These are DM's and MB's residence correct?

 

[Tamarind]

Ever been on the Main Street of a small town at 10pm on a Monday night? Not much traffic. Maybe the spotter knew TB and his truck. Maybe he/she is a fan of Dodge Ram Trucks? Maybe the vehicle was speeding and stood out for that reason. Maybe it was being followed closely and both vehicles were driving erratically which made them stand out. So many maybes. LE know who this person was and they haven't been arrested so I'm not sure what you're implying.

I don't usually imply I usually make it clear what I am saying. What I am saying is that I find it odd that the truck was allegedly spotted in downtown Brantford at around 10pm in the dark. I am surprised that it stood out enough to be immediately noteworthy and reported to police within hours.
That is not to say it wasn't his truck, it is saying I, me myself find it strange and I make no excuse for my opinion on the matter. You have a lot of maybes in your post as opposed to facts which doesn't persuade my opinion. The evidence at trial may support my opinion or not. We will see.

 

[Kamille]

Right. Thanks. Completely forgot about that. (Je me souviens Pierre Poutine - or at least I should.) So, then, the concensus is that LE phoned all the numbers that emanated from the burner phone which led them to the third potential victim? And that the burner phone was personally acquired by and in the sole possession of DM who made these calls?

Nope. Not my assumption anyway. You see there's this group of people called concerned citizens (les citoyens concernés) who actually respect the LE officers who are tasked with serving and protecting them. So when ther's a big case all over the news and those concerned citizens think they may have some pertinent information, they call said LE officers. We know one called about seeing a black Dodge Ram truck travelling in downtown Brantford around 10pm on the night TB disappeared. I'll bet another one called after reading about the case and the other Dodge Ram owner who went on a test drive with two suspicious dudes and said "hey officer you're never gonna believe this but I was supposed to meet with a couple of guys about my Dodge Ram for sale the same day!" Concerned citizen's phone number was checked against burner phone records. Bingo. At the time this was announced LE even indicated there could be more, in an effort to prompt not so eager concerned citizens to contact them about anything unusual with the sale of their Dodge Rams.

After that, all other numbers on the burner list were likely traced and the person's verified and perhaps interviewed as to whom they were talking to at that phone number. I doubt there was a long list. The phone seemed to have been procured for a limited purpose.

MOO

 

[Tamarind]

Woah! Nice find Kamille. These are DM's and MB's residence correct?

google maps 2009

 

[Kamille]

I don't usually imply I usually make it clear what I am saying. What I am saying is that I find it odd that the truck was allegedly spotted in downtown Brantford at around 10pm in the dark. I am surprised that it stood out enough to be immediately noteworthy and reported to police within hours.
That is not to say it wasn't his truck, it is saying I, me myself find it strange and I make no excuse for my opinion on the matter. You have a lot of maybes in your post as opposed to facts which doesn't persuade my opinion. The evidence at trial my support my opinion or not. We will see.

Your opinion of what?