Millard Properties: Locations and Ownership

[Kamille]

That is a nice Piper http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/PIPER-NAVAJO/1968-PIPER-NAVAJO/1369589.htm

C-GMLJ has been owned by MillardAir since 1986 so it was likely one bought by Carl, he had several thru the years .

When aircraft are sold , price mostly comes down to time remaining on components ... ie: how long since overhaul.

Two identical aircraft may have vastly different prices , if one has recently overhauled engines and props it can be flown for 2000 hours before needing expensive maintenance , if the engines have 1993 hours on them , the new owner can only fly it another 7 hours and then has to install new engines @ $30k each (for example)

Meticulous records are kept (logbooks) from when the aircraft left the factory in 1967 , every owner is listed , and every repair and overhaul is documented , including any accidents and rebuilds . Look at the picture in the advertisement , there is a stack of binders & records that come with the plane.

Aviation has a very refreshing and honest approach in all transactions , there are no used-car-salesmen spewing bull or making wild claims. .

If all businesses used the same integrity as seen in aviation , it would be a much better world

BBM

Might explain why DM had no use for the aviation industry then. He obviously preferred the car industry. And we all know how honest that is.

MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

Perhaps DM's mother has a sentimental attachment to the remaining aircraft then? I'd imagine she flew often with WM in them. I believe I've read that she participated with WM in the filming of seal hunt documentaries. I assume all three aircraft were around while she was married to WM? This is a very big part of her life that she's been forced to liquidate as well. Must be hard on her.

Can't think of any other reason why these 3 aircraft wouldn't be up for sale. Other than perhaps a desperate hope that they may once again be flown by that 14 yr old boy who appeared to have so much talent and potential. Once they are sold I guess that truly puts an end to the Millard Air dynasty?

MOO

FWIW, I haven't seen anything to indicate that DM could fly fixed wing, let alone multi engine. I think it's a given that he could fly his helicopter, but IMHO, the Pipers may have been WM's babies and DM may not have been licensed and/or rated for them. MOO

 

[swedie]

IMO we don't have to worry too much about the "what if" he's innocent card right now. If in fact he's innocent, DM will get every cent back and perhaps more. Book deals, movies, lawsuits etc etc. I'm actually more concerned about MS. What about MS and his family? What if MS was just going for a ride with DM that day? What if MS had no idea what his buddy was really up to? What about MS's family and the humiliation they've all faced? IMHO, graffiti artist, pot smoking MS seems to be an odd "BFF" for DM and MS has a larger immediate family who are living thru this. As far as the "Millardair Dynasty"? IMHO, it was far from a dynasty. Max Ward or today's Robert Deluce are examples of aviation dynasties. IMHO, Millardair was toast before CM died- WM was simply trying to do something that would give DM a job with the money and assets CM had left him. MOO

BBM - You make a good point MsSherlock. Remember the framing aspect DP mentioned...did DM try to frame MS for LB and TB's murders? Did he also try with WM's murder but failed in framing MS only to have his death deemed a suicide until further investigation in which he is now charged with WM's murder? Could this be what DM claims is right in front of everyone's face? For heaven’s sake, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!? This silence is very frustrating.

 

[Juballee]

IMO we don't have to worry too much about the "what if" he's innocent card right now. If in fact he's innocent, DM will get every cent back and perhaps more. Book deals, movies, lawsuits etc etc. I'm actually more concerned about MS. What about MS and his family? What if MS was just going for a ride with DM that day? What if MS had no idea what his buddy was really up to? What about MS's family and the humiliation they've all faced? IMHO, graffiti artist, pot smoking MS seems to be an odd "BFF" for DM and MS has a larger immediate family who are living thru this. As far as the "Millardair Dynasty"? IMHO, it was far from a dynasty. Max Ward or today's Robert Deluce are examples of aviation dynasties. IMHO, Millardair was toast before CM died- WM was simply trying to do something that would give DM a job with the money and assets CM had left him. MOO

My use of the word 'dynasty' was in quotation marks was to denote that I used the word dynasty in a manner that suggests I question it's appropriateness. Also known as sarcastic quotes in some circles, sorry if it was confusing.

Also, I would have to disagree that DM would get every cent back if innocent, this isn't a guaranteed-conviction-or-your-money-back kind of system. We the public are supposed to repay him by buying his books and seeing movies and paying the taxes that cover the lawsuits? That's not very fair to anyone, in my opinion.

Well, correction; it's a really fair deal for the other people who will also write unauthorized biographies and movies changed just enough so that they don't have to pay for the rights, they will profit big time. Oh, wait, that money comes from our pockets too...

 

[MsSherlock]

My use of the word 'dynasty' was in quotation marks was to denote that I used the word dynasty in a manner that suggests I question it's appropriateness. Also known as sarcastic quotes in some circles, sorry if it was confusing.

Also, I would have to disagree that DM would get every cent back if innocent, this isn't a guaranteed-conviction-or-your-money-back kind of system. We the public are supposed to repay him by buying his books and seeing movies and paying the taxes that cover the lawsuits? That's not very fair to anyone, in my opinion.

Well, correction; it's a really fair deal for the other people who will also write unauthorized biographies and movies changed just enough so that they don't have to pay for the rights, they will profit big time. Oh, wait, that money comes from our pockets too...

IMO, we can speculate til the cows come home about DM's hypothetical wrongful conviction and what impact it will have on his hypothetical wealth. IMHO, it's a waste of time. I'd rather speculate about logistics of this trial- we've got MWJ, MS & DM in jail and CN out on bail. Who's trial is going to come first? How long is it going to take for the victims families to get closure. Lets talk about something important here and stop crying over one of the accused murderers! MOO And for what it's worth, I'll gladly watch a true crime murder series or read a book about this when it comes out. Watch them and read them all the time!! MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM may end up taking the "Destroy the Dynasty" trophy from the Eaton's!!!! MOO

If it somehow turns out that he is pronounced not guilty, will it still be so titilating that his family's 'dynasty' was destroyed to pay for his defence? Will his family get their dynasty back?

IMO we don't have to worry too much about the "what if" he's innocent card right now. If in fact he's innocent, DM will get every cent back and perhaps more. Book deals, movies, lawsuits etc etc. I'm actually more concerned about MS. What about MS and his family? What if MS was just going for a ride with DM that day? What if MS had no idea what his buddy was really up to? What about MS's family and the humiliation they've all faced? IMHO, graffiti artist, pot smoking MS seems to be an odd "BFF" for DM and MS has a larger immediate family who are living thru this. As far as the "Millardair Dynasty"? IMHO, it was far from a dynasty. Max Ward or today's Robert Deluce are examples of aviation dynasties. IMHO, Millardair was toast before CM died- WM was simply trying to do something that would give DM a job with the money and assets CM had left him. MOO

My use of the word 'dynasty' was in quotation marks was to denote that I used the word dynasty in a manner that suggests I question it's appropriateness. Also known as sarcastic quotes in some circles, sorry if it was confusing.

Also, I would have to disagree that DM would get every cent back if innocent, this isn't a guaranteed-conviction-or-your-money-back kind of system. We the public are supposed to repay him by buying his books and seeing movies and paying the taxes that cover the lawsuits? That's not very fair to anyone, in my opinion.

Well, correction; it's a really fair deal for the other people who will also write unauthorized biographies and movies changed just enough so that they don't have to pay for the rights, they will profit big time. Oh, wait, that money comes from our pockets too...

IMO, we can speculate til the cows come home about DM's hypothetical wrongful conviction and what impact it will have on his hypothetical wealth. IMHO, it's a waste of time. I'd rather speculate about logistics of this trial- we've got MWJ, MS & DM in jail and CN out on bail. Who's trial is going to come first? How long is it going to take for the victims families to get closure. Lets talk about something important here and stop crying over one of the accused murderers! MOO And for what it's worth, I'll gladly watch a true crime murder series or read a book about this when it comes out. Watch them and read them all the time!! MOO

???? Confused.....

 

[Alethea Dice]

FWIW, I haven't seen anything to indicate that DM could fly fixed wing, let alone multi engine. I think it's a given that he could fly his helicopter, but IMHO, the Pipers may have been WM's babies and DM may not have been licensed and/or rated for them. MOO

HTH

In 1999, Dellen became the youngest person to fly a helicopter solo at 14 years old, setting a world record and earning a free breakfast from the Brampton Flying Club. He set another record by taking his first solo flight in a Cessna 172, making him the youngest to fly both a helicopter and fixed-wing plane solo in one day.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/11/tim_bosma_arrest_made_hamilton_police_say.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

IMO, we can speculate til the cows come home about DM's hypothetical wrongful conviction and what impact it will have on his hypothetical wealth. IMHO, it's a waste of time. I'd rather speculate about logistics of this trial- we've got MWJ, MS & DM in jail and CN out on bail. Who's trial is going to come first? How long is it going to take for the victims families to get closure. Lets talk about something important here and stop crying over one of the accused murderers! MOO And for what it's worth, I'll gladly watch a true crime murder series or read a book about this when it comes out. Watch them and read them all the time!! MOO

IMO, it would be pretty easy to guess which trial will happen first. Hypothetically, it may be more convenient to have them occur in a certain order, but no sense crying over it, they will happen when they do.

As for the families, IMHO, they will never get closure. They may get resolution, but the hole in their lives will be forever, and they will more than likely not even want to close the book on their loved one that they will no longer see. Closure is just a convenient word that means very little to the actual families of the victims.

JMO

 

[Juballee]

IMO we don't have to worry too much about the "what if" he's innocent card right now. If in fact he's innocent, DM will get every cent back and perhaps more. Book deals, movies, lawsuits etc etc. I'm actually more concerned about MS. What about MS and his family? What if MS was just going for a ride with DM that day? What if MS had no idea what his buddy was really up to? What about MS's family and the humiliation they've all faced? IMHO, graffiti artist, pot smoking MS seems to be an odd "BFF" for DM and MS has a larger immediate family who are living thru this. As far as the "Millardair Dynasty"? IMHO, it was far from a dynasty. Max Ward or today's Robert Deluce are examples of aviation dynasties. IMHO, Millardair was toast before CM died- WM was simply trying to do something that would give DM a job with the money and assets CM had left him. MOO

I think that it's nice that MS and his family has some concern as well, maybe his thread will get a bump. Perhaps this should get moved there.

I just find it odd that it is easy for some to imagine that MS was just an innocent guy with a bad friend in the wrong place at the wrong time, but then find it impossible to imagine it the other way around.

Personally, if I had to pick one who did it all and one who was wrongly caught up in some plan he knew nothing of, I would put my money on the one without a criminal record, the one who had never been to jail, and the one who already owned several of the thing stolen in the crime being the innocent one of the two. Maybe I'm biased by my previous experience with human behaviour, but I would say that the guy with a criminal record, no money, no vehicle and gang connections would have a greater chance of being the guilty party in a scenario like that. But that's just my opinion.

 

[MsSherlock]

HTH



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/11/tim_bosma_arrest_made_hamilton_police_say.html

Thanks Alethea. I can understand the confusion. First of all, the article tells us about Dellen going solo: all that means is that he got his "beginners" license for both fixed wing and rotary. At 14 years old, that is certainly an accomplishment, but it doesn't mean that he could just fly anywhere or anytime he wanted. He would have been working on various lessons for his full license under the supervision of his flight instructors. He wouldn't have been able to get either his fixed wing or helicopter pilots license til he was 17, and he would have had to complete ground school for both plus the required flight time and in air flight exams. There's enough info out there for me to believe that he had a helicopter pilots license, but I have yet to see anything that would confirm that he ever held a fixed wing pilots license, let alone the required ratings for the planes that Millardair owned.
WM on the other hand was a very experienced fixed wing pilot who would have been able to fly those Navajo's with his eyes closed. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I think that it's nice that MS and his family has some concern as well, maybe his thread will get a bump. Perhaps this should get moved there.

I just find it odd that it is easy for some to imagine that MS was just an innocent guy with a bad friend in the wrong place at the wrong time, but then find it impossible to imagine it the other way around.

Personally, if I had to pick one who did it all and one who was wrongly caught up in some plan he knew nothing of, I would put my money on the one without a criminal record, the one who had never been to jail, and the one who already owned several of the thing stolen in the crime being the innocent one of the two. Maybe I'm biased by my previous experience with human behaviour, but I would say that the guy with a criminal record, no money, no vehicle and gang connections would have a greater chance of being the guilty party in a scenario like that. But that's just my opinion.

IMHO, you're certainly not alone. As for me, I find it difficult to believe that MS would make such a huge jump in his criminal activity: pot smoking with the odd graffiti job to killing 2 people in 10 months? That's quite a jump! Plus, he was able to implicate his rich friend in both? And, he was able to flank his rich friends dad's untimely death with the murders? MOO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

 

[SnooperDuper]

IMHO, you're certainly not alone. As for me, I find it difficult to believe that MS would make such a huge jump in his criminal activity: pot smoking with the odd graffiti job to killing 2 people in 10 months? That's quite a jump! Plus, he was able to implicate his rich friend in both? And, he was able to flank his rich friends dad's untimely death with the murders? MOO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

If DM were able to kill and get away with it every 5 months, MS might feel as if he were the right hand man to someone insanely powerful.

OTOH if MS were killing off one of DM's girlfriends, living in his house, and making DM's test drive go really badly...wouldn't that be psychologically disturbing to DM, to be persecuted in this way and then framed for the murders? You'd think DM would have some anger. He seems pretty mellow for someone who might have suffered so.

 

[MsSherlock]

If DM were able to kill and get away with it every 5 months, MS might feel as if he were the right hand man to someone insanely powerful.

OTOH if MS were killing off one of DM's girlfriends, living in his house, and making DM's test drive go really badly...wouldn't that be psychologically disturbing to DM, to be persecuted in this way and then framed for the murders? You'd think DM would have some anger. He seems pretty mellow for someone who might have suffered so.

OTOH Snooper- is there a possibility that MS didn't even know DM was bopping people? If MS was driving the Yukon, maybe he didn't even know what DM's game plan was-after all, they went on another test drive and nothing happened then. When TB's truck was spotted in Brantford are there any MSM reports that the Yukon was there as well? Wonder how LE have tied him in with LB? The picture I have of MS is a guy bonging it up with herbal therapy, surrounded by his friends, in his moms basement highlighted by a trip or two down to the bridge for some artwork. MOO

 

[Juballee]

OTOH Snooper- is there a possibility that MS didn't even know DM was bopping people? If MS was driving the Yukon, maybe he didn't even know what DM's game plan was-after all, they went on another test drive and nothing happened then. When TB's truck was spotted in Brantford are there any MSM reports that the Yukon was there as well? Wonder how LE have tied him in with LB? The picture I have of MS is a guy bonging it up with herbal therapy, surrounded by his friends, in his moms basement highlighted by a trip or two down to the bridge for some artwork. MOO

What this sounds like to me is that some people think that if DM was more of a stoner or into petty crimes like graffiti, it would be easier to believe he may be innocent, how interesting. This is a strong argument for the legalization of pot, I guess.

I think it is funny how adamantly some were against the idea that the opposite could be true, that DM was was unaware that MS was 'bopping people'.

If the people who put forth the notion that DM may not be guilty as charged are called his supporters and fans, what shall we call those who propose the same thing for the other accused?

 

[Arnie M]

.

If MS was the one who originally wanted to steal the truck I doubt it would be for his own use .... it would be to sell ... lots of specific vehicles are stolen and shipped by container to Russia (for example) ... the thief is often a lower echelon criminal who gets only a couple thousand , and the rest is done by OC.

Just Toronto alone has over 2000 people involved in such thefts

And if that was the case , TB's truck would be "too hot" (too much publicity) and OC would not want anything to do with it so "the boys" had to hide it

Maybe MS owed DM money so DM assisted him with the theft , but all those points become moot in the light of the murder & incineration that followed.


http://www.thestar.com/news/investi...s_stolen_in_gta_shipped_around_the_world.html

.

 

[SnooperDuper]

What this sounds like to me is that some people think that if DM was more of a stoner or into petty crimes like graffiti, it would be easier to believe he may be innocent, how interesting. This is a strong argument for the legalization of pot, I guess.

Just because DM never got caught for his crimes until TB died, does not mean there is no evidence against him. Remember, in the end DM was caught with a chop shop and three deaths.

I think it is funny how adamantly some were against the idea that the opposite could be true, that DM was was unaware that MS was 'bopping people'.

How could DM be oblivious to the death of his girlfriend and father?

<modsnip>

 

[Juballee]

Just because DM never got caught for his crimes until TB died, does not mean there is no evidence against him. Remember, in the end DM was caught with a chop shop and three deaths.



How could DM be oblivious to the death of his girlfriend and father?



<modsnip>

Until I see chop shop charges, I will have to disagree about it's existence, but that's just my opinion. I have yet to hear what evidence there is against DM in the other two murders still, so I am going to reserve my judgment on those as well.


No one ever said that DM was oblivious to his father's murder, and that doesn't mean that he knew that LB and WM were murdered, or that he knew who had done it.


Maybe my version of reality is different that other people's but I will stick to my opinion that someone who was lacking in something is more likely to steal it than someone who has dozens of them, and that someone who has a record is more likely to commit a crime than someone who doesn't, and that to me is the more realistic.

I personally feel that the hype surrounding DM, which began with people's shock when he was arrested because he doesn't fit the typical profile of a who would kill for a car, may get the better of common sense at times. It's easy to lash out at the face we see most often, the name we always hear associated with a crime that disgusts and angers us all, but I still want to hear the actual evidence before I start sharpening my pitchfork, personally. And I thought that made me a realist, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what to call MS's supporters.

 

[cansleuther]

Why is it 'realistic' to believe that MS is completely innocent of both murder charges? LE and the Crown obviously don't think so.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

There is no reason to be rude or sarcastic to other WSers.

If it can't be said politely, or at least dispassionately, probably best to not say it at all.

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM - no record, never been to jail, doesn't appear to be lacking much, friends and neighbours say he was modest, didn't act spoiled or rich, soft-spoken, treated friends to toys and parties and trips for his girlfriend

MS - criminal record, jail, history of crime goes back to 2005, vandalizes public property, goes by the name SAY10, some neighbours avoided him/several had trouble with him, played the lead part in a torture/murder online video, drug trafficking, apparently is the MWJ connection, gang banger or wanna be at least

My money's on the gangsta boy.

JMO