Miners Trapped In WV Coal Mine

[Cypros]

Hatfield said that there were strict orders not to give out information until all was confirmed. He was focused on the rescue effort and trying to get conclusive information frome the mines and said that he had no idea what was being told to the families during all of that time. if he DID know that the families had been told that all 12 were alive then he certainly should have put a stop to that immediately, but my understanding from his interview is that he did not realize that misinformation was spreading like wildfire and that things had gotten so far out of hand.

 

[cappuccina]

....analytical ability...I have read your posts for many years, but please do not make me repeat myself here...He can give all the excuses he wanted to....there are times when you need to take control and do the right thing...

He didn't...

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think he did the very best he could under terrible circumstances. It's not his fault. Seems to me he had the best of intentions and wanted to return those men safely to their families. My understanding he did try to get the message through. Maybe you & he think he should have run down there himself and told them, but I don't.


I would bet my bottom dollar the families were instructed early on to reply only on the information relayed by specific people. Sadly, it seems they all ( understandably) jumped the gun too.
I want to know who told them that their loved ones would be meeting them at the church!

 

[JDB]

....analytical ability...I have read your posts for many years, but please do not make me repeat myself here...He can give all the excuses he wanted to....there are times when you need to take control and do the right thing...

He didn't...

I think what was done was done correctly. First misinformation was giving to the families.By who I still am unclear. And once the officals reliazied it. they wanted to make sure nothing else was done or said till all the info was sound.I have never been in there shoes but I know myself would rather be told once everything was confirmed.Then to have someone come in and say HOLD it what you have told is not correct but we still do not know how many made it or if they are dead.

 

[Cypros]

....analytical ability...I have read your posts for many years, but please do not make me repeat myself here...He can give all the excuses he wanted to....there are times when you need to take control and do the right thing...

He didn't...

HI cappaccina! DITTO! I am not trying to defend the guy -- just trying to get a better understanding of the perspective from that command center. It sounds like the communications with the rescuers were muffled and broken up and that there was a long period of time between reports from deep within the mine due to the focus of the rescuers on rescuing. According to Hatfield, he and everybody else there originally heard the rescuers to say there were 12 survivors. Then, 45 minutes later they heard the rescuers say there was only one. He didn't know what to believe. Now, I agree that at that point IF he knew that the public was celebrating a "miracle", he should have let them know that the number of survivors was in doubt and it may have only been the one. But did he know that? That is an honest question from me because my understanding from the interviews is that he didn't realize that the family was getting all kinds of false information. He said that it wasn't until 2:15 that he received conclusive reports of the one survivor. As I said, I am not defending him because I do think he should have been in better communication with the "outside" on a more regular basis.

IMO, the person/people who really deserve the criticism are those who ignored the orders not to give out information prematurely. Who was it that gave the call out that there were 12 survivors? Who was it that walked into the church and told the families that the miners had expressed their desire to go straight to the church to see their loved ones? Who was it that orchestrated the plan to have them walk down the hallway to a room where they would first greet the immediate family members, and then on to a more public space to be greeted by all? SOMEBODY was taking charge and just making things up as they went along. That is the individual who is responsible for falsely raising hopes and setting everybody up for a devastating slap in the face. That is the person I want to see exposed and publicly reprimanded (and that wasn't Hatfield).

 

[Buzz Mills]

....the regulations themselves may look stringent....However, it depends on how the inspectors choose to enforce them. Different inspectors will, of course, not only look at things differently, but, more importantly, even two inspectors looking at theings the same way and finding the same violations may give the company different timetables to turn things around...

For example, and you know you see this all the time, there are some really bad nursing homes out there, and often it's not so much that the violations haven't been found, but that the QC inspectors have been waaayyy too generous with the facility vis a vis how long they have to clean up their act. Now while some violations must be corrected in so many days, weeks, etc., there are more open timetables for other deficiencies. Same way with the mines. Frankly, from everything I've read, this mine had a terrible track record. Now BadRX was gracious enough to inform me that these owners were relatively new. However, it seems as if this mine was an accident waiting to happen.

Also, as the coal beds in WVA and KY get overmined, there is more of a chance of accidents like this happening as they have to go deeper and deeper to find the coal or whatever it is they are mining.

So, you see that my answer is "yes and NO"....yes, the government has tried to imrorve conditions/make more stringent regulations, but the reality of the situation is that there are still some very dangerous working conditions out there...

The administration's not putting the clamp on emissions (coal has the highest emissions) helped enable the rapid run-up in the price of coal, and this rejuvenated what was close to becoming a dying industry, and allowed it to gain new life. Lots of mines will be back online again, and new ones started. Good to see the economy pumped up and the jobs, but the risk in coal mining, is off the chart, if only considering one's lungs, and with all of the activity, especially on old operations, we'll be seeing more accidents..

Used to be strip mining. They could get all the coal they wanted 30-40 feet down. Now the mines go very deep, and the risk is higher, the deeper they go. If you grow up in that environment, you are conditioned to be able to go down in the mines when you become of age. It's all in what you are used to. The ones that escape that environment are lucky. It's a terrible life--IMO.

 

[MidnightMyst]

I haven't read everything on this thread yet but I wanted to add...I am a caver (not too much recently tho), I have been involved on some cave rescues. Being trapped or injured in a cave is much like being trapped in a mine (without the dangerous fumes). I do understand how the miscommunication may have occured. Please realize that the rescuers worked many long hours without sleep or food. I am sure many of them were on the point of exhaustion when the false news broke out. Even in this day of cell phones, it is not easy to get communications to the ground level from underground without some complications, they have to basically run a line from where the incident occured to ground level...this involves several hundred feet to several thousand feet of obstacles in the way....especially during a mine collapse. In my opinion, the news media was too news hungry to wait for clear, concise facts. They simply overheard bits and pieces on the ground level that was coming in bits and pieces from underground (much like the old game of telephone we used to play...First person relays a sentence and by the time it gets to the last person it is totally way off base of the original). In their hurry to get the news out FIRST, they didn't stop to confirm. In the media's defense...by the time the real news came out...many newspapers were already printed and in route to being delivered...no time for a retraction. I do agree it is/was a bad situation for all involved and it's very heartbreaking. The company didn't race into give the good news, nor did it race to deny it. They simply didn't know. I do think there are some safety issues at stake with this property/company. To be honest when I first heard the news of the miners being stranded I didn't think any would come out alive. I do hope the survivor makes it. It is surely a lesson to be learned. In any cave rescue I have been involved with or heard of, there are always mistakes made and lessons learned. I do not think any intentionally sets out for these things to happen, but until you have been there and lived through something like this...do not judge those who truly had best intentions...the rescuers. My husband went on a cave rescue once and had to recover a body...those involved in such a tragedy will never forget it and always wish they could have done something different.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Looking down from heaven, I would want all of these people, familily included, to get over who said what to who, and get on with remembering I am dead; and I am asking you to honor my memory.

 

[JDB]

Looking down from heaven, I would want all of these people, familily included, to get over who said what to who, and get on with remembering I am dead; and I am asking you to honor my memory.

Buzz Great post. And lets place our energy into thoughts of healing for the families along with the health of the survior.

 

[scandi]

Somebody might have already posted this, but one of the miners who was dying wrote a note to his wife. I think the Governor gave it to her, and he said she was so touched. The Gov said it was a very special note.

I'm hoping these guys just started feeling sleepy. Evidently they knew they were dying because of the gas. I'm hoping the gas took away any edge of panic when they realized this was it.

I loved your post Buzz.


Scandi

 

[michelle]

Somebody might have already posted this, but one of the miners who was dying wrote a note to his wife. I think the Governor gave it to her, and he said she was so touched. The Gov said it was a very special note.

I'm hoping these guys just started feeling sleepy. Evidently they knew they were dying because of the gas. I'm hoping the gas took away any edge of panic when they realized this was it.

I loved your post Buzz.


Scandi

oh i havent heard that....

 

[nanandjim]

Buzz Great post. And lets place our energy into thoughts of healing for the families along with the health of the survior.

I agree with both Buzz and you, JDB. Slinging mud is doing noone any good.

 

[jaybird]

That breaks my heart. How special for that wife to get one last goodbye.

 

[nanandjim]

Somebody might have already posted this, but one of the miners who was dying wrote a note to his wife. I think the Governor gave it to her, and he said she was so touched. The Gov said it was a very special note.

I'm hoping these guys just started feeling sleepy. Evidently they knew they were dying because of the gas. I'm hoping the gas took away any edge of panic when they realized this was it.

I loved your post Buzz.


Scandi

Wow. I wonder if they all had paper and pencils or pens. I know nothing about the mining industry although my grandfather was a coal miner in WVA many, many years ago and died while I was a tot.

I don't know if everyone of them would have pen and paper handy, but I can well imagine that any notes that were left will be treasured.

 

[luvahgirl]

Right on Buzz!

 

[scandi]

That's all they said. It was either CNN or FOX - I've been flippin' channels. He could have written it on any paper in his wallet, and it could be he carried a pencil stub in his kit. The miners do carry things on their waists that they might need or use when down below.

It brings back a sharp memory for me of when I was a kid. I must have had a book about coal mining. I remember drawings of the miners with the band around their head with a light on their forehead, and they all carried little pails. And their mancars were different back then, small with just room for 2 men to sit up and a little rudder arm in the front, and they went into the mine on the tracks. Funny how one remembers things like this!

Scandi

 

[arielilane]

I haven't read everything on this thread yet but I wanted to add...I am a caver (not too much recently tho), I have been involved on some cave rescues. Being trapped or injured in a cave is much like being trapped in a mine (without the dangerous fumes). I do understand how the miscommunication may have occured. Please realize that the rescuers worked many long hours without sleep or food. I am sure many of them were on the point of exhaustion when the false news broke out. Even in this day of cell phones, it is not easy to get communications to the ground level from underground without some complications, they have to basically run a line from where the incident occured to ground level...this involves several hundred feet to several thousand feet of obstacles in the way....especially during a mine collapse. In my opinion, the news media was too news hungry to wait for clear, concise facts. They simply overheard bits and pieces on the ground level that was coming in bits and pieces from underground (much like the old game of telephone we used to play...First person relays a sentence and by the time it gets to the last person it is totally way off base of the original). In their hurry to get the news out FIRST, they didn't stop to confirm. In the media's defense...by the time the real news came out...many newspapers were already printed and in route to being delivered...no time for a retraction. I do agree it is/was a bad situation for all involved and it's very heartbreaking. The company didn't race into give the good news, nor did it race to deny it. They simply didn't know. I do think there are some safety issues at stake with this property/company. To be honest when I first heard the news of the miners being stranded I didn't think any would come out alive. I do hope the survivor makes it. It is surely a lesson to be learned. In any cave rescue I have been involved with or heard of, there are always mistakes made and lessons learned. I do not think any intentionally sets out for these things to happen, but until you have been there and lived through something like this...do not judge those who truly had best intentions...the rescuers. My husband went on a cave rescue once and had to recover a body...those involved in such a tragedy will never forget it and always wish they could have done something different.

Your post is well taken and much needed to be said. Thank you MidnightMyst. Bless you:blowkiss:

 

[Cypros]

Looking down from heaven, I would want all of these people, familily included, to get over who said what to who, and get on with remembering I am dead; and I am asking you to honor my memory.

You are right, Buzz.

I doubt that any of the misinformation was done with malice intended.

 

[Buzz Mills]

That's all they said. It was either CNN or FOX - I've been flippin' channels. He could have written it on any paper in his wallet, and it could be he carried a pencil stub in his kit. The miners do carry things on their waists that they might need or use when down below.

It brings back a sharp memory for me of when I was a kid. I must have had a book about coal mining. I remember drawings of the miners with the band around their head with a light on their forehead, and they all carried little pails. And their mancars were different back then, small with just room for 2 men to sit up and a little rudder arm in the front, and they went into the mine on the tracks. Funny how one remembers things like this!

Scandi

Scandi, where I grew up, there was an area nearby, that they stripped down to about 30 feet deep by a half mile long, about 20 yards wide--from the bottom, there were any number of open mines that ran perpendicular, to that long strip. There were a few of those two man coal cars still left in the mines. We all knew we weren't supposed to go in the mines, and for the most part, we followed that order, but we did go a 100 feet into one of the mines--it was very dangerous territory. They didn't spend a lot on safety when those mines were dug--in the 20's and 30's. and as kids we were always shown pictures of the different models of blasting caps, dynamite; that stuff was still laying around.

 

[JDB]

Somebody might have already posted this, but one of the miners who was dying wrote a note to his wife. I think the Governor gave it to her, and he said she was so touched. The Gov said it was a very special note.

I'm hoping these guys just started feeling sleepy. Evidently they knew they were dying because of the gas. I'm hoping the gas took away any edge of panic when they realized this was it.

I loved your post Buzz.


Scandi

You know Scandi a freind of mine at work said something that has been on my mind all day.I am just hoping we here what happened in the mine from the survior when he can talk about it, But my friend said it would be incrdiable if we find out that the reason this young man is alive. Is because the other miners being older gave him thier oxygen. Since he was the young one of the bunch.And hearing stories today how all miners are family to each other.It would not surprise me.