Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[Deleted member 229974]

<snipped for focus>

I hope so, too. And ditto for the person who videotaped the brutal attack on KG. I hope they can track the person down.

They all will.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I would like to know more about what proceeded this fight.

Is it possible that the "winner" of this fight was the victim prior to this fight and went far beyond protecting herself, due to on ongoing frustration with being victimized?

No, I don’t think the aggressor was the victim. If that were the case I think we would have heard about it. The aggressor’s friends would be talking to media by now. And media as it is, would be all over that story. imo

 

[LadyL]

dbm

 

[LadyL]

It looks like the family of the attacker started a petition on Change.org to have their daughter not tried in adult court.

I didn't find it, though.

Family of Kaylee Gain attacker launches petition for teen not to charged as an adult

The petition, set up by the suspect’s aunt, was slammed as ‘insane’

www.independent.co.uk

change.org can delete petitions. That may have happened. MOO

I couldn't find it either. Apparently their "" got deleted earlier.

Change deleted it because they do not allow fundraising for someone criminally charged. All donators were refunded.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

So people are buying into the idea that extreme violence might be an understandable action because of whatever may have been happening between them?

What non-violent actions did this "honor student" try? Were there meetings at the school? Conversations between the families to try to work things out? A police report filed if things were really bad? Something besides deciding to fracture another person's skull?

We can not start saying that violent revenge is in any way acceptable or a part of youthful learning.

 

[GRT]

So people are buying into the idea that extreme violence might be an understandable action because of whatever may have been happening between them?

What non-violent actions did this "honor student" try? Were there meetings at the school? Conversations between the families to try to work things out? A police report filed if things were really bad? Something besides deciding to fracture another person's skull?

We can not start saying that violent revenge is in any way acceptable or a part of youthful learning.

That, of course, is the crux of the issue -- can we justify extreme violence if the person is acting in response to an earlier incident?

Our justice system isn't just by a long shot, but it's all we've got.

In this case, it's not just a matter of "fighting back," it's a matter of losing one's ability to self-regulate and resorting to a level of violence that far exceeds what should be necessary to stop the bullying.

Parts of St Louis, including parts of Hazelwood, are dangerous. A lot of kids grow up in an environment where the "code of the street" takes precedence over abiding by the law.

I don't think we can (or should try) to minimize the impact of the extreme violence in this incident, but I also think we should be aware of how bullying can back a person in a corner--and there's a chance they could snap.

The video in this case really bothers me--not just because of the violence toward Kaylee, but also because so many teens seemed hyper-excited -- egging it on, filming, and squaring off. I read that the school district dismissed 9 students, but I don't know for how long.

We're failing our young people in some communities, but making excuses for horrible behavior isn't going to solve the problem. All JMOO

 

[KMouse]

So people are buying into the idea that extreme violence might be an understandable action because of whatever may have been happening between them?

What non-violent actions did this "honor student" try? Were there meetings at the school? Conversations between the families to try to work things out? A police report filed if things were really bad? Something besides deciding to fracture another person's skull?

We can not start saying that violent revenge is in any way acceptable or a part of youthful learning.

For the conflict or perceived conflict to get to the point where your daughter is smashing another person's head into the concrete tells me there was a parenting fail. The family needs to accept that their daughter is violent and out of control and look at what they can do better rather than make excuses.

 

[al66pine]

Website Confusion? Petition on Change site?

@LadyL @GRT @ seasideForest @PrairieWind
@Allabouttrial Thx again for the DM article re this
"The family has created a Change.org petition, calling on the St Louis Juvenile Court to show 'compassion' to the schoolgirl."

A "petition" on the change site ---
"Urge Chief Juvenile Officer Rick Gaines to Consider [___] Case with Compassion"
--- is still there ATM.

Looks like same wording as originally there ~ a week ago but w a different "started by" name.

ETA:
I deleted some of this post and created another post below.

 

[al66pine]

Website Confusion? [***] Fundraising Site (we cannot name)

@LadyL @GRT @ seasideForest @PrairieWind
@Allabouttrial Thx for the Mar. 21st DM article.*

DM quoted assailant's unnamed aunt. "We set up a [***] but it was taken down in hours, we have a lawyer...."
DM: "It raised nearly $3,000 before being taken down.
"The page was set up on March 16, begging for help with her legal defense, as her family claim that they have been targeted with 'racist death threats'."

DM quoted [...] website spokesperson who said
"I can confirm the fundraiser was removed and all donors have been refunded.
"[***] Terms of Service explicitly prohibit fundraising for the legal defense of an alleged violent crime....."

____________________________________
^^^ [***] = the name of the fundraising website. My self censoring to comply w WS ToS. ^^^
* Family of teen charged in Kaylee Gain case says she is the real victim
Missouri-teen-charged-Kaylee-Gain-victim.html

 

[al66pine]

Petition on Change site. Where Does the $ Go?

@LadyL @GRT @ seasideForest @PrairieWind
@Allabouttrial Thx again for the Mar 21st DM article."The family has created a Change.org petition..."
"Her aunt... urged people to donate to help with her legal bills..."
"'If people want to donate, they should give it on the CashApp, not the petition,' she added."

Does info below help explain aunt directing ppl to donate elsewhere, not thru the petition website?

Look carefully at wording above the $ buttons on that site:
"Victories Every Day — 100% Funded by You"
Nothing about $ being transferred to petition starters.
Persons starting "petitions" there do NOT receive readers' donations made thru that website, per wiki info below.

Wiki's section on "Business Model" of the co./website says it is
"a for-profit, venture-backed company that hosts activist petitions written by members of the public."
"DONATIONS through the platform go NOT GO to CAMPAIGN MAKERS." (<- my CAPS)

Also
"According to a Change.org spokesperson, "The money raised from petitions goes toward helping the campaign win and helping us build and maintain our technology platform, making it possible for us to provide people with the tools they need to win the change they want to see."[70]*"

ETA: Reading further in wiki article's end notes , the wiki stmt re "for-profit... company" may be stale or no longer entirely applicable.
But regardless of any technical change in the company's/website's legal status, IIUC the donations made thru that website still do not go to the petition starters.
If anyone sees info on the website to the contrary, I welcome correction.
______________________________________
Change.org - Wikipedia

Business Model

Change.org gives a voice to people around the world seeking change. This support is possible thanks to people who power petitions and Change.org members.

www.change.org

 

[duckduck]

Kaylee Gain is breathing on her own after bully bashed her head

An update posted to a GoFundMe set up for Kaylee Gain and her family confirmed that she was breathing on her own and had been taken out of ICU following her hospitalization.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you, Lord. Maybe the entire community can begin to heal, too.

 

[Aurora90]

Kaylee Gain is breathing on her own after bully bashed her head

An update posted to a GoFundMe set up for Kaylee Gain and her family confirmed that she was breathing on her own and had been taken out of ICU following her hospitalization.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you, Lord. Maybe the entire community can begin to heal, too.

This is fantastic news! She beat the odds, but the journey really starts now.

Praying for her recovery!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That, of course, is the crux of the issue -- can we justify extreme violence if the person is acting in response to an earlier incident?

Our justice system isn't just by a long shot, but it's all we've got.

In this case, it's not just a matter of "fighting back," it's a matter of losing one's ability to self-regulate and resorting to a level of violence that far exceeds what should be necessary to stop the bullying.

Parts of St Louis, including parts of Hazelwood, are dangerous. A lot of kids grow up in an environment where the "code of the street" takes precedence over abiding by the law.

I don't think we can (or should try) to minimize the impact of the extreme violence in this incident, but I also think we should be aware of how bullying can back a person in a corner--and there's a chance they could snap.

The video in this case really bothers me--not just because of the violence toward Kaylee, but also because so many teens seemed hyper-excited -- egging it on, filming, and squaring off. I read that the school district dismissed 9 students, but I don't know for how long.

We're failing our young people in some communities, but making excuses for horrible behavior isn't going to solve the problem. All JMOO

What's interesting to me is that if we take a different situation, but with the same outcome, the narrative would be entirely different.

Let's say instead of two classmates, we had a couple of kids who were dating. Let's say one bashed the other's head into concrete. There would be an outcry for attempted murder charges as this would be deemed domestic violence. There would be nowhere near this level of inquiry into what happened before the fight or could the aggressor have been the victim prior to this. We'd mostly all agree that no matter what the victim did beforehand, they didn't deserve that. Sure, that line of questioning would be relevant in some other form of violence. If one partner shot the other, we'd wonder if there was DV going on or something like that. But after seeing the level of force one was able to use on the other, I doubt any of us would even have question about that. The questions would be more about how long have they been violent, not in search of excuses for the violence.

But throw the word "bullying" or "bully" in and suddenly, it's as if there are mitigating circumstances.

MOO.

 

[LaborDayRN]

So people are buying into the idea that extreme violence might be an understandable action because of whatever may have been happening between them?

What non-violent actions did this "honor student" try? Were there meetings at the school? Conversations between the families to try to work things out? A police report filed if things were really bad? Something besides deciding to fracture another person's skull?

We can not start saying that violent revenge is in any way acceptable or a part of youthful learning.

@ChatteringBirds ^^^THIS! I couldn't agree MORE with your excellent post!

 

[Rolypolyoly]

What's interesting to me is that if we take a different situation, but with the same outcome, the narrative would be entirely different.

Let's say instead of two classmates, we had a couple of kids who were dating. Let's say one bashed the other's head into concrete. There would be an outcry for attempted murder charges as this would be deemed domestic violence. There would be nowhere near this level of inquiry into what happened before the fight or could the aggressor have been the victim prior to this. We'd mostly all agree that no matter what the victim did beforehand, they didn't deserve that. Sure, that line of questioning would be relevant in some other form of violence. If one partner shot the other, we'd wonder if there was DV going on or something like that. But after seeing the level of force one was able to use on the other, I doubt any of us would even have question about that. The questions would be more about how long have they been violent, not in search of excuses for the violence.

But throw the word "bullying" or "bully" in and suddenly, it's as if there are mitigating circumstances.

MOO.

I don't think anyone has tried to excuse the level of violence used, not in this thread anyway, there isn't any excuse. She should have stopped way before she did, there's no disputing that.

The mitigating circumstances for me are against the narrative of reporting, and the subsequent insinuation that this was an unexpected attack and KG was an innocent bystander who got jumped by a vicious monster.

We know that's not true, we know this was an organised fight and we clearly see KG throw the first punch.

This began as one thing, and yes it may have been down to bullying, we don't know for sure, both girls had violence on their mind when they arrived, but it quickly turned into something out of control and much, much worse and now both girls are left with the very differing consequences of MD's actions.

I've said before that reasons and excuses are not the same thing, and looking at the reason why MD was so overtaken by rage doesn't mean I am excusing her actions, I am most definitely not, however I don't feel like she is the vicious, irredeemable monster people are making her out to be.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

What's interesting to me is that if we take a different situation, but with the same outcome, the narrative would be entirely different.

Let's say instead of two classmates, we had a couple of kids who were dating. Let's say one bashed the other's head into concrete. There would be an outcry for attempted murder charges as this would be deemed domestic violence. There would be nowhere near this level of inquiry into what happened before the fight or could the aggressor have been the victim prior to this. We'd mostly all agree that no matter what the victim did beforehand, they didn't deserve that. Sure, that line of questioning would be relevant in some other form of violence. If one partner shot the other, we'd wonder if there was DV going on or something like that. But after seeing the level of force one was able to use on the other, I doubt any of us would even have question about that. The questions would be more about how long have they been violent, not in search of excuses for the violence.

But throw the word "bullying" or "bully" in and suddenly, it's as if there are mitigating circumstances.

MOO.

Respectfully, I DO think that we mostly all agree that no matter what the victim did beforehand, she did not deserve to have her head bashed in. I have read every post of this tread and have not seen a single one that even hinted that KG deserved to get her skull crushed. Secondly, comparing a fight between two 15 and 16-year old classmates, on a public street, a few blocks from school, in the middle of the afternoon. with about a dozen other classmates watching and recording, and also scuffling, to a possible domestic violence act between a dating couple, is more than a bit of a stretch, imo. Circumstances do matter and often contribute to acts of violence. And yes, I would expect questions to be asked in either of those circumstances, NOT to excuse anyone, but to try to begin to understand what happened and why, in HOPES that what may be learned may help prevent another such situation, and yes, one of those questions would likely be how long has this person been violent, but that would be far from the only question that matters. Lastly, despite any outcries for attempted murder charges, in this case, it has been pointed out several times here that Missouri does not have an 'attempted murder' charge. The attacker has been charged with assault, which is a class B felony in Missouri, and seems to be the correct charge, assuming KG lives. And yes, I do believe she should be charged as an adult, and will be. JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I don't think anyone has tried to excuse the level of violence used, not in this thread anyway, there isn't any excuse. She should have stopped way before she did, there's no disputing that.

BBM. This is my point. In my mind, I'm saying she never should have struck another human being. Not that she should have stopped earlier than she did.

The mitigating circumstances for me are against the narrative of reporting, and the subsequent insinuation that this was an unexpected attack and KG was an innocent bystander who got jumped by a vicious monster.

We know that's not true, we know this was an organised fight and we clearly see KG throw the first punch.

How do we know this was an organized fight?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Respectfully, I DO think that we mostly all agree that no matter what the victim did beforehand, she did not deserve to have her head bashed in. I have read every post of this tread and have not seen a single one that even hinted that KG deserved to get her skull crushed.

I didn't say people said she deserved it. I'm saying people are looking for mitigating circumstances. Those aren't the same thing.

Secondly, comparing a fight between two 15 and 16-year old classmates, on a public street, a few blocks from school, in the middle of the afternoon. with about a dozen other classmates watching and recording, and also scuffling, to a possible domestic violence act between a dating couple, is more than a bit of a stretch, imo.

I don't think it's a stretch. Violence is violence. Someone beating another person outside of self defense is a criminal act, no matter if they're dating, classmates or anything else.

MOO.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

BBM. This is my point. In my mind, I'm saying she never should have struck another human being. Not that she should have stopped earlier than she did.



How do we know this was an organized fight?

The victim hit her first?!

I will try and find a link for you that says it was an organised fight, bear with me.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

The victim hit her first?!

I will try and find a link for you that says it was an organised fight, bear with me.

Sorry, I've looked and I can't find any MSM that states it was organised now, so I will add that it's my opinion, but based on the video, my opinion is that it was organised.

The person with Kaylee in the video says "Get her Kaylee" and then Kaylee throws a punch, it looks like both girls are squaring up to eachother which leads me to believe they had prearranged a time and place, not tension that someone was already there and filming.

For Clarity this is just me explaining why I believe it was a prearranged fight and not an unexpected assault, and in no way am I victim blaming/shaming or saying the victim deserved what happened. She did not.

AJMO