Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #16

[scottishgal]

Wow thread closed and re-opened after 5 years ?

Well having skimmed through this case over the past few days , my instinct (Only MOO) says Stacy was the main target

Reason? Suzy and her mother could have been taken any other night from that house? separately or together

The perp may have been trying to catch Stacy alone and could not invade the Mccall house if she had a dad, brother , uncles around during that period of time in 1992 close to graduating high school

I also think that there is a reason the perp didnt want to wait any longer for another time to take her - even if it meant having to take her friend and friend's mum too to get her - and that could be that the perp felt Stacy was out of his life after graduation and moving on.

If I was LE (sadly just a middle aged tax accountant not LE) , working this as a cold case, I would re-interview every single person in that graduating class afresh and form a picture of if there was someone who had been turned down by Stacy and had been obsessive about her that senior year .......

 

[PGHJW]

Wow thread closed and re-opened after 5 years ?

Well having skimmed through this case over the past few days , my instinct (Only MOO) says Stacy was the main target

Reason? Suzy and her mother could have been taken any other night from that house? separately or together

The perp may have been trying to catch Stacy alone and could not invade the Mccall house if she had a dad, brother , uncles around during that period of time in 1992 close to graduating high school

I also think that there is a reason the perp didnt want to wait any longer for another time to take her - even if it meant having to take her friend and friend's mum too to get her - and that could be that the perp felt Stacy was out of his life after graduation and moving on.

If I was LE (sadly just a middle aged tax accountant not LE) , working this as a cold case, I would re-interview every single person in that graduating class afresh and form a picture of if there was someone who had been turned down by Stacy and had been obsessive about her that senior year .......

That's exactly the direction that the investigation needs to go in. I'm not sure that it ever "officially" has unless they've kept it close to the vest. These are the folks that need reinterviewed and reexamined.

Also, I'm a staunch believer (as I've said elsewhere in this thread and on these boards) that multiple people CAN and WILL keep a secret when it's something as heavy as this, but time can take its toll. These kids are now hitting 50 and older. I'm a tad younger and even in my 40s I'm doing reflecting. After all this time the next decade could be crucial as far as new info.

 

[Catmommy]

The problem is, as I see it, with the passage of time and the noted unreliability of long-term and/or false memory, people trying to recall things from back then and trying to "help" LE could well result in false leads, memories and accusations. Without physical evidence, especially bodies, anything else is just wishful thinking, easily impeached or discredited by any attorney worth his salt. MOO of course. I hope these women are recovered in my lifetime but I'm not confident this will ever happen.

 

[PGHJW]

The problem is, as I see it, with the passage of time and the noted unreliability of long-term and/or false memory, people trying to recall things from back then and trying to "help" LE could well result in false leads, memories and accusations. Without physical evidence, especially bodies, anything else is just wishful thinking, easily impeached or discredited by any attorney worth his salt. MOO of course. I hope these women are recovered in my lifetime but I'm not confident this will ever happen.

We've had 33 years of chasing boogeymen that's done nothing but hinder the investigation. Going back to the beginning can't make it any worse.

 

[Catmommy]

We've had 33 years of chasing boogeymen that's done nothing but hinder the investigation. Going back to the beginning can't make it any worse.

While understanding any frustration with the lack of answers and what can be perceived as a lack of progress on this case as well, I think it's wrong and disparaging to call the investigation to this point "chasing boogeymen". Law Enforcement rarely keeps the public apprised on the particulars of an active, if cold, case. The scene itself was so severely compromised, that nothing short of a confession and recovering the bodies makes anything else, in my opinion, just grandstanding, with little chance of bringing viable results. We really don't know how many times in the past 33 years LE has done exactly what was suggested; gone back to the beginning and questioned everybody they could. I'm certain they want the truth even more than any of us do.

 

[Coronawoman1964]

I was watching a criminal procedural show earlier tonight and one of the “detectives” made a comment along the lines of “how did they solve any crimes back in the 90’s?” The “detective” then started listing off just a few of the things not available back then. Such as, everybody didn’t have a cell phone, much less one capable of recording, or tracking with GPS. There was no social media, with people posting every five minutes about how they are feeling or tweeting what they had for dinner. That scene immediately brought to mind this case, which I have followed since it happened. After 33 years, 6 months and some odd days, still no resolution. I, along with many others, (Missouri Mule, talking to you ) have participated in numerous forums over the years, discussing, arguing, and getting nasty about this case. People have tossed theories out, spreading gossip and making life difficult for real people, all filtered through our own life experience. For example, I was a teenager back then and I would never do this or that. I don’t know why this particular case has stuck with me through the years, but it has. I think Catmommy summed it up perfectly: “We really don't know how many times in the past 33 years LE has done exactly what was suggested; gone back to the beginning and questioned everybody they could”. I'm certain they want the truth even more than any of us do.” Extremely old cold cases have been solved over the past few years, by REAL detectives putting in the work, talking to real people. Let’s make this year, the year that “The Springfield Three” is one of them.

 

[PGHJW]

The issue here is that we DO know that they've looked into the boogeymen and where are we?

 

[Cedars]

Extremely old cold cases have been solved over the past few years, by REAL detectives putting in the work, talking to real people. Let’s make this year, the year that “The Springfield Three” is one of them.

I agree with your post but also want to add, so many cold cases are being solved by genetic genealogy and so often it turns out the killer was someone no one ever suspected. Especially in this case, where it was likely a random criminal, rather than a known connection.

JMO

 

[vagabond44]

I’m new around here, and have done a little catching up on the threads related to this case. I grew up in Springfield and moved away about 30 years ago. I don’t have any personal connections to the case, but my circles of friends in the late 1980s included people who are older siblings of some of the players in this case. In 1992, I lived about a mile south of 1717 East Delmar.

I don’t have anything new or insider-y to offer, but I did want to throw out some thoughts, facts and observations that are mostly unrelated to each other:

* 1717 East Delmar is a long, long way from the center of any activity involving Kickapoo High School. It’s well removed from Kickapoo’s actual attendance area. In those days, attendance areas were pretty tightly enforced, with one exception: If you were a senior in high school, you could choose to remain at the high school you were attending if your parents moved out of the attendance area (I vaguely remember this practice being known as “senior preference.”) Suzie’s connection to Kickapoo would have been from a previous residence. This is why I’ve always thought it was odd that so many people just let themselves into the residence; it wasn’t like these were close neighbors who knew each other well. The Delmar house was several miles outside of the Kickapoo district.

* Given that, it was a bit weird that anybody from a KHS graduation party other than Suzie would want to wind down their night at the Delmar house. This, to me, lends some credence to the belief that Stacy McCall was trying to be a friend to Suzie (and, also, simply didn’t wanna go home that night). It would have been, at the time, at least a 25-30 minute drive from the Battlefield area, even with no traffic. If you look at a map now, you’ll think, well, couldn’t they have just zipped down the James River Freeway? Nope, it ended at Kansas Expressway at the time. West Bypass’s southern terminus was Sunshine. That trip from the Kirbys’ house would have involved Weaver Road, the old Republic Road, and Campbell, maybe crossing over on Battlefield to get to Glenstone.

* That said, I know from my own youthful efforts to get from one part of Springfield to another after having had a drink or two, if they followed basic Springfieldian strategy of the time, they would have stayed off Glenstone to reduce the likelihood of an encounter with law enforcement. This would mean they likely would have approached Delmar from Kentwood via Fremont or National, which would explain why their cars were parked facing Glenstone. I never found that odd.

* I’ve noted several posts, articles and at least one podcast repeat the assertion that the 911 system was new to Springfield in June of 1992. It wasn’t. It had been launched in March 1979. Janis McCall didn’t want to call 911 because “911 was for emergencies” and she still wasn’t convinced or was trying block out the thought that the situation she was facing in the evening of June 7 was an emergency. But it wasn’t because she was unfamiliar with 911.

* The various gas station/convenience store “sightings” never rang true with me. Neither Streeter nor McCall looked particularly distinctive for the time or place. A lot of teenagers would have been out that night, and the bored guy behind the cash register at the Apco or Rapid Roberts or whatever would likely not have been able to pick Streeter or McCall out of a lineup.

* The idea that anybody would walk from 1717 E. Delmar to George’s Steak House for late-night breakfast is patently silly. Glenstone doesn’t have sidewalks. Kentwood doesn’t have sidewalks. Nobody in Springfield walks to anywhere except on university campuses. That one is really easy to cross off the list.

* I’m pretty sure Hydra-Slide WAS open late on summer nights and weekends. So it’s not implausible that Janelle Kirby’s cutoffs would still have been wet from being at Hydra-Slide. It has always struck me as odd that … she and Mike Henson WENT to Hydra-Slide rather than advising some adults that three vehicles and no people were at the unlocked Delmar house. And a Hydra-Slide trip would certainly not have been an all-day-into-the-evening thing the way a trip to White Water would have been.

* And finally: The idea that “Springfield was a place where people didn’t lock their doors” in 1992 is absolutely false. I grew up in a house in the heart of Springfield in the ‘70s and ‘80s which had double dead-bolt locks. Lots and lots of criming was going on in Springfield throughout my childhood and adolescence — big violent crime, drug-fueled crime, petty crime, and yes, more than our fair share of missing women. It’s true that there weren’t a lot of murders IN THE CITY LIMITS of Springfield, but there were plenty on the outskirts. And there were many, many home break-ins, car thefts, and other property crimes. The only thing that really stood out about this case was that it was three people at one time, and that the crime scene was as clean as it was.

So: None of these assertions advance anything, but hopefully they level-set a few key points, especially for those not from Springfield.

 

[PGHJW]

I’m new around here, and have done a little catching up on the threads related to this case. I grew up in Springfield and moved away about 30 years ago. I don’t have any personal connections to the case, but my circles of friends in the late 1980s included people who are older siblings of some of the players in this case. In 1992, I lived about a mile south of 1717 East Delmar.

I don’t have anything new or insider-y to offer, but I did want to throw out some thoughts, facts and observations that are mostly unrelated to each other:

So: None of these assertions advance anything, but hopefully they level-set a few key points, especially for those not from Springfield.

I'd give this post a gold star if I could. Refreshing, insightful and zero agenda pushing a favorite "suspect" like it's a game show.

 

[barefootpoet]

I’m new around here, and have done a little catching up on the threads related to this case. I grew up in Springfield and moved away about 30 years ago. I don’t have any personal connections to the case, but my circles of friends in the late 1980s included people who are older siblings of some of the players in this case. In 1992, I lived about a mile south of 1717 East Delmar.

I don’t have anything new or insider-y to offer, but I did want to throw out some thoughts, facts and observations that are mostly unrelated to each other:

* 1717 East Delmar is a long, long way from the center of any activity involving Kickapoo High School. It’s well removed from Kickapoo’s actual attendance area. In those days, attendance areas were pretty tightly enforced, with one exception: If you were a senior in high school, you could choose to remain at the high school you were attending if your parents moved out of the attendance area (I vaguely remember this practice being known as “senior preference.”) Suzie’s connection to Kickapoo would have been from a previous residence. This is why I’ve always thought it was odd that so many people just let themselves into the residence; it wasn’t like these were close neighbors who knew each other well. The Delmar house was several miles outside of the Kickapoo district.

* Given that, it was a bit weird that anybody from a KHS graduation party other than Suzie would want to wind down their night at the Delmar house. This, to me, lends some credence to the belief that Stacy McCall was trying to be a friend to Suzie (and, also, simply didn’t wanna go home that night). It would have been, at the time, at least a 25-30 minute drive from the Battlefield area, even with no traffic. If you look at a map now, you’ll think, well, couldn’t they have just zipped down the James River Freeway? Nope, it ended at Kansas Expressway at the time. West Bypass’s southern terminus was Sunshine. That trip from the Kirbys’ house would have involved Weaver Road, the old Republic Road, and Campbell, maybe crossing over on Battlefield to get to Glenstone.

* That said, I know from my own youthful efforts to get from one part of Springfield to another after having had a drink or two, if they followed basic Springfieldian strategy of the time, they would have stayed off Glenstone to reduce the likelihood of an encounter with law enforcement. This would mean they likely would have approached Delmar from Kentwood via Fremont or National, which would explain why their cars were parked facing Glenstone. I never found that odd.

* I’ve noted several posts, articles and at least one podcast repeat the assertion that the 911 system was new to Springfield in June of 1992. It wasn’t. It had been launched in March 1979. Janis McCall didn’t want to call 911 because “911 was for emergencies” and she still wasn’t convinced or was trying block out the thought that the situation she was facing in the evening of June 7 was an emergency. But it wasn’t because she was unfamiliar with 911.

* The various gas station/convenience store “sightings” never rang true with me. Neither Streeter nor McCall looked particularly distinctive for the time or place. A lot of teenagers would have been out that night, and the bored guy behind the cash register at the Apco or Rapid Roberts or whatever would likely not have been able to pick Streeter or McCall out of a lineup.

* The idea that anybody would walk from 1717 E. Delmar to George’s Steak House for late-night breakfast is patently silly. Glenstone doesn’t have sidewalks. Kentwood doesn’t have sidewalks. Nobody in Springfield walks to anywhere except on university campuses. That one is really easy to cross off the list.

* I’m pretty sure Hydra-Slide WAS open late on summer nights and weekends. So it’s not implausible that Janelle Kirby’s cutoffs would still have been wet from being at Hydra-Slide. It has always struck me as odd that … she and Mike Henson WENT to Hydra-Slide rather than advising some adults that three vehicles and no people were at the unlocked Delmar house. And a Hydra-Slide trip would certainly not have been an all-day-into-the-evening thing the way a trip to White Water would have been.

* And finally: The idea that “Springfield was a place where people didn’t lock their doors” in 1992 is absolutely false. I grew up in a house in the heart of Springfield in the ‘70s and ‘80s which had double dead-bolt locks. Lots and lots of criming was going on in Springfield throughout my childhood and adolescence — big violent crime, drug-fueled crime, petty crime, and yes, more than our fair share of missing women. It’s true that there weren’t a lot of murders IN THE CITY LIMITS of Springfield, but there were plenty on the outskirts. And there were many, many home break-ins, car thefts, and other property crimes. The only thing that really stood out about this case was that it was three people at one time, and that the crime scene was as clean as it was.

So: None of these assertions advance anything, but hopefully they level-set a few key points, especially for those not from Springfield.

Very interesting real-time observations, thanks for sharing. I think we can all agree that anything and everything, no matter how mundane, could help in some way to solve this case. I like how you made compelling points to cross certain theories off the seemingly never-ending list.

 

[DD Byrd]

Before they got to Janelle's house, do we know how many people knew that's where they were headed? And if it was a specific face-to-face invite (likely to Stacey and she brought Suzie) or was it announced at an earlier party a la "late night at Janelle's!!!"

Because I'm wondering if someone showed up at Janelle's that Stacey, Suzie, or both wanted to avoid. It's been said they left Janelle's because there was no room. So did Janelle or her mother say "sorry girls, you have to go," or was it more subtle in that they preferred not to stay because it would be a night on the floor? Because I can see S or S wanting to leave since X was there, but giving Janelle another reason (or just leaving if it was a real rager).

I remember parties in high school where kids would show up that no one knew, the word had just gotten out. I'd ask all attendees if they recall someone who was there only briefly, especially someone not familiar to a lot of the group. It's been said that Stacey went with Suzie so Suzie wouldn't be lonely. Is it possible Suzie took Stacey home because Stacey didn't want to be there?

Lastly, for all we know there's a chance that S and S not only decided to bail on going to the waterpark the next day for yet unknown reason, but had also shared that information.

 

[TheCars1986]

I've followed this case for years and have never commented on any of the threads, but am glad to see that this case is still getting the discussion and attention it needs. But I think a lot of what has been reported and said throughout the years has been repeated so often that people accept things that are not true as fact. IMO, I do not think any of the named or suspected suspects are involved. I'm not even sure who the target was that night, because IMO, all three of them are equally plausible. I think investigators need to start back from the beginning, and look at the people who were around Suzie and Stacy before they disappeared.

 

[sundancekid]

It seems that this thread is dieing out. Come on people the women deserve to not be forgotten. Even if it seems like we’re going round in circles let’s keep sharing theories and maybe something can come up.

I have no idea who the target was but I’m pretty confident it wasn’t Stacey. The crime is too clean for me to believe it was some manic sex driven serial killer or killers. It’s very rare serial killers act in pairs anyway. And also rare for serial killers to move bodies let alone 3. But surely whoever did this would have had to of had a partner, even if he was just waiting outside. The act of moving the women makes the task 10x more difficult, if you was the only perp you would have to have one of the women drive to keep control over the other 2, IMO that means the perp has lost quite a lot of control over the situation, the driver could do anything. It’s clear a vehicle was used and quite easy to understand there was no witnesses seeing or hearing the women being moved into the van, all it had to do was reverse right up to the front door.

Why would a serial killer/s move 3 women? Why would professional hitmen move 3 women? It’s the moving of the 3 and the lack of ANY struggle in the house that I struggle with. You have increased the difficulty of the crime and your risk massively, it doesn’t make sense.

 

[sundancekid]

I’m trying to think of the reasons a perp/s would abduct 3 adult women and the amount of reasons are extremely slim. We are pretty sure the women left the house alive, the lack of signs of struggle and zero blood being found (I’m guessing and hoping the forensics used luminal in the home) point to this. So they are not just carrying bodies out, but live adult women.

It’s not even as if moving the 3 women benefits them in anyway, as far as they were aware it wouldn’t of bought them more time (unfortunately in this case it did with the reluctance to call LE straight away). They knew Stacey’s mother would be waiting for her and as soon as friends would find the purses/cars/keys/cigarettes it would be obvious something was wrong.

The poster who posted a number of years ago about some confession about some sex party could possibly be onto something. It was the first I read anything about it and I have no idea about the credibility of what he was saying. But, abducting women for the use of some sex party is one of the very few reasons I can think of why a perp/s would go through the trouble and immense risk of abducting and transporting 3 adult women.

I don’t think any of the friends of the women were in any way involved. Although they did act very strange. I have friends of over 25 years and I still wouldn’t just walk in their house whether their cars were outside and their doors were unlocked or not. But I suppose you just never know with this world, you can research all sorts of different cases that can surprise you to no end, I suppose you can’t rule anybody out.

Cases like these are what bring me close to religion and Jesus. I refuse to believe that whenever these poor women died, that was the end of their existence and everything after is eternal unconsciousness. I’ve had my own experience with afterlife/ghosts etc and I’m convinced it exists and that gives me immense comfort knowing the girls will all one day be with loved ones in heaven and the Perps who did this will see the wrath. No i am not some crazy cat lady or a self proclaimed psychic, I’m a normal 29 year old lad and I’m sure these perps will be dealt with by the man upstairs.

 

[Bodine]

I’m trying to think of the reasons a perp/s would abduct 3 adult women and the amount of reasons are extremely slim.

I can think of the best reason of all.......getting away with it. Whatever the motivation was for the abduction, leaving no bodies or crime scene is the best way to thwart any investigation.

 

[TheCars1986]

The one theory that I've never seen discussed that much (and I don't think it's impossible or improbable) is mistaken identity. Someone shows up at the house looking for a specific person or thing, the women deny knowing said person or that they do not have the thing these people are looking for, but at that point it's too late so the women are removed from the house. It would explain why the three purses were found together in Suzie's bedroom.

I also believe that Stacy could have been the main target, which would explain why whoever did this did so when she was at Delmar for the first time. The cops focused too much on Sherrill and Suzie as the main targets. That's gotten them nowhere for thirty some years.

 

[snooptroop88]

Question, and this would be a good question to direct to Bartt Streeter if he were still here, but I gather he isn't. Looking. I can't tell. Anyone who'd like to attempt to answer this.

If Suzie and Stacy came back to Delmar, and the place was in complete darkness, would Suzie still wake Sherrill? My guess is no, depending on the time of return. And if Cinnamon started yapping when they opened the door, they'd have hushed the little thing and taken it to bed with them. Even were Cinnamon routinely kept in Sherill's room, would you think they'd just still go ahead and go to bed without waking Sherill, and hush the little dog, take it to bed with them? Say if Sherrill's door was closed.

Any thoughts? There's a particular reason I ask.

 

[TheCars1986]

If Suzie and Stacy came back to Delmar, and the place was in complete darkness, would Suzie still wake Sherrill?

IIRC in one of the earlier threads Bartt said that Suzie would always say goodnight to her mother. I would also wager that Sherrill probably woke up when they came home that night because there was a book near (or on) Sherrill's bed as if she were reading. And if she were sleeping when they came in and was woken up by the person/s who abducted them, that wouldn't explain the book.

 

[snooptroop88]

IIRC in one of the earlier threads Bartt said that Suzie would always say goodnight to her mother. I would also wager that Sherrill probably woke up when they came home that night because there was a book near (or on) Sherrill's bed as if she were reading. And if she were sleeping when they came in and was woken up by the person/s who abducted them, that wouldn't explain the book.

What if Sherrill didn't happen to wake up that night, though?

My guess is Cinnamon would've been taken off to bed with Suzie and Stacy if Sherrill's door was closed, and Sherrill might've been left to sleep. Believe me, I trust that Suzie always would say goodnight to her. But it's an unusual night, I'm wondering if maybe Sherrill were asleep (or appeared to be) with all the lights off, Cinnamon yapping...

Did they call Sherrill and tell her they were coming? Asking for a very particular reason.