MISTRIAL - Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis #5

[LBDunes]

TE needs to hit them with a wrongful death suit. jmo.

I have wondered about this too. I don't know where I saw it, (maybe here) but someone posted that a legal expert was on WMBF saying that the Elvis family should bring a civil suit, so SM would be compelled to testify. Did anyone see this and if so could you elaborate on what was said about a civil action?

 

[jillycat]

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/32319...dnapping-case?clienttype=generic&sf29801640=1

I'll ask again. Do we know if the KT friend was the foreman and one of the hold-outs? I keep hearing this as if it's fact.

And I assume if it's true, his agenda was a mistrial so SM can be tried again and be convicted next time?

 

[SweetT]

My guess is that their lawyers, if they're even half way decent lawyers, probably told them that there is high likelihood that the state will retry them, low likelihood that they'll luck out and be able to get another tainted jury, and high likelihood that SM will be convicted . If Truslow is any good at all, he should be telling SM to consider a plea deal.



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I don't know about that. I think the lawyers will be more emboldened now and say, let's take that chance. I think they will be more convinced that they can get away with what ever at this point. And will not head them to a plea deal, but that is just My opinion. Also it is ultimately the Defendants choice in how they go, remember Casey and Jodi Arias ran their attorneys and what they did and didn't do. The attorneys work for the accused. Any how, I sure hope Heathers family can get some justice, we all know they had something to do with her disappearance, who would have thought it would be so hard to prove to a jury though?

 

[TTF14]

I'll ask again. Do we know if the KT friend was the foreman and one of the hold-outs? I keep hearing this as if it's fact.

And I assume if it's true, his agenda was a mistrial so SM can be tried again and be convicted next time?

We don't know that is fact. I think it's just a rumor, and I don't even think it's true, but that's just my opinion.

Why would you think that was his agenda?

 

[barcode]

Here is what hangs it up for me, jury instructions. "If you find reasonable doubt of one element of the charges, you have to find the defendant NG on all of the charges.


The 1.39 phone call Perhaps SM said he was leaving his wife, perhaps that is just what HE told BW because she knew BW would be scrutinizing any contact. BUT really how many people would call at that time to break the news that he and wifey just split up? I see the timing of the call more of a hook up late at night by all of what followed. 16 calls in an 1 1/2 hours, I do not think I have ever managed to make that many calls to the same person let alone in the middle of the night.

So yeah I would also have to hang my hat on NG as much as I believe they are behind Heather's demise.

 

[jillycat]

We don't know that is fact. I think it's just a rumor, and I don't even think it's true, but that's just my opinion.

Why would you think that was his agenda?

My point is that by the time they cast their final vote and agreed they were deadlocked, jurors knew who was voting what. With only 2 NG's, there was going to be a mistrial with the probability of a new trial, where SM risks a conviction. I don't see how this benefits the defense or the defendant.

 

[barcode]

My point is that by the time they cast their final vote and agreed they were deadlocked, jurors knew who was voting what. With only 2 NG's, there was going to be a mistrial with the probability of a new trial, where SM risks a conviction. I don't see how this benefits the defense or the defendant.

I kinda do, I imagine the M's are feeling quite confident and if an offer is proffered at this time, it would seem to come out of desperation by the state.

 

[jillycat]

Here is what hangs it up for me, jury instructions. "If you find reasonable doubt of one element of the charges, you have to find the defendant NG on all of the charges.


The 1.39 phone call Perhaps SM said he was leaving his wife, perhaps that is just what HE told BW because she knew BW would be scrutinizing any contact. BUT really how many people would call at that time to break the news that he and wifey just split up? I see the timing of the call more of a hook up late at night by all of what followed. 16 calls in an 1 1/2 hours, I do not think I have ever managed to make that many calls to the same person let alone in the middle of the night.

So yeah I would also have to hang my hat on NG as much as I believe they are behind Heather's demise.

That instruction was very clear and I don't see getting around it on a tainted jury claim. JMO

 

[Dockins]

I have wondered about this too. I don't know where I saw it, (maybe here) but someone posted that a legal expert was on WMBF saying that the Elvis family should bring a civil suit, so SM would be compelled to testify. Did anyone see this and if so could you elaborate on what was said about a civil action?

I didn't see it, but in other cases, I have seen the family hold off from filing civil cases until after the criminal cases go through the courts. Even after a not guilty verdict, people have successfully sued in civil case..eg, OJ Simpson. I cannot remember the reason given for waiting though.

 

[barcode]

That instruction was very clear and I don't see getting around it on a tainted jury claim. JMO

I know it was clear....Crystal, I did not mean tainting the jury, I meant by what I pointed out below about phone call would have been enough for me to vote NG as much as I believe they are guilty.

 

[Madeleine74]

Element of a charge is not a phone call. That's evidence. The jury needs to read the verbiage that makes up the charge and apply the totality of the evidence to the charge to make a determination. One or more pieces of evidence can be discarded by juries and guilt can still be determined to be met. All depends on the case, the evidence, the jury.

 

[TTF14]

That instruction was very clear and I don't see getting around it on a tainted jury claim. JMO

I thought the judge also made it very clear that they should use common sense and think about how all of the evidence/testimony, TOGETHER, adds up/links, etc., and what logical conclusion can be made if you look at all of it, not just one piece you're having trouble reconciling.

 

[Madeleine74]

For a civil suit there is a statute of limitations that is in effect and the Elvis family will need to file within that period of time. I don't know what it is in SC but in my state it's 2 years from the day of the crime. The civil case might not get to a conclusion for a couple more years, but the filing has to be done or the family will lose that opportunity forever.

 

[jillycat]

I kinda do, I imagine the M's are feeling quite confident and if an offer is proffered at this time, it would seem to come out of desperation by the state.

I guess I just don't see all the conspiracy at every turn to set the M's free. There will probably be a new trial. I doubt that KT is excited about that, and there's always a risk when you put something before a jury, and I don't know if a mistrial is a gift in a case where 10 people wanted him convicted.

Or the state could surprise us and pack it in. I just think both sides have obstacles and this probably could have been resolved far sooner with different approaches. I also think it can't be a morale booster for the state to have lost out on so many points and charges with its resume now including a nolle pros and a mistrial.

But I think the state can't reasonably just dump this case and let the M's walk, so maybe it will come up with a new and better strategy.

 

[Tulessa]

I wish The prosecutors had consulted with the likes of Juan Martinez.

We'd all be on time out! :floorlaugh: Just teasing mods. You guys are the best!

 

[geevee]

I'll ask again. Do we know if the KT friend was the foreman and one of the hold-outs? I keep hearing this as if it's fact.

And I assume if it's true, his agenda was a mistrial so SM can be tried again and be convicted next time?

I spoke with someone who stated they private messaged with a reporter who covered the trial and was told KT's friend was not the foreman, nor knows how KT's friend voted. I have not seen this private message or know who the reporter was but the person who pm'ed with the reporter is highly regarded and respected in the trial watching community. My apologies for the earlier statement that the foreman was the friend, mea culpa.

 

[jillycat]

I thought the judge also made it very clear that they should use common sense and think about how all of the evidence/testimony, TOGETHER, adds up/links, etc., and what logical conclusion can be made if you look at all of it, not just one piece you're having trouble reconciling.

I think how that gets organized and processed in the mind of a juror looking at everything in a deliberation room is very different from a common sense awareness that the accused is guilty.

 

[jillycat]

I know it was clear....Crystal, I did not mean tainting the jury, I meant by what I pointed out below about phone call would have been enough for me to vote NG as much as I believe they are guilty.

Yes, that's my point too and I was referencing the sentiments here about tainted juries, or let's just call it the general claim that the jury is at fault and the judge is corrupt and this can't possibly have anything to do with how the state managed its case.

 

[barcode]

Element of a charge is not a phone call. That's evidence.

I understand that BUT I was thinking from the way it was laid out, that the phone call was the LURE in the kidnapping charge.

 

[Madeleine74]

I didn't see it, but in other cases, I have seen the family hold off from filing civil cases until after the criminal cases go through the courts. Even after a not guilty verdict, people have successfully sued in civil case..eg, OJ Simpson. I cannot remember the reason given for waiting though.

OJ case had 2 civil suits:

1. For custody/guardianship of the children after he was acquitted

2. The wrongful death case after he was acquitted


The reason both proceeded after the trial concluded is because had Simpson been convicted, the Goldman family wouldn't have felt the need to go after the killer to get a court to determine him to be responsible since that would have happened in the murder trial. Since they didn't get justice in the criminal courts, a civil suit was their only recourse left. And if Simpson had been convicted of murder he would have been sentenced to life and the Brown family would have continued having full custody of the 2 kids until they were 18. Everything in the civil courts stemmed from Simpson being acquitted.