MISTRIAL - Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis #5

[Madeleine74]

I love your posts. They always state things so clearly. I wish you could deliver the closing argument.

Well sadly my J.D. from "Google University" is not recognized by the Solicitor's office! ;D

 

[barcode]

I'm trying to find where anyone argued that SM is absolved.

I can't, so in regard to the luring theory that the state hung its case on, no one knows what was said about anyone meeting. And Heather didn't know how to contact him why? It appears because he either wasn't in a hurry to meet her, or gave up easily when she didn't want to meet ala the first phone call.

After 1 initial phone "by someone creepin round in the middle of the night" Heather literally goes on a mission to make sure that that meeting does take place and in that time frame instead of the following day, all of which does not suggest she was moving on nor does it suggest a great date.

I don't know, does it somehow make HE less dead to find SM guilty of planning this methodically than if it happened in the spur of a moment. Pre-meditaion can be formed in a split second BUT yeah I do not buy the "he called" and "she's gone" theory!

 

[Madeleine74]

I found the pregnancy test to be irrelevant also. I think the state did infer Heather was pregnant through the multiple witnesses. I felt I couldn't come away being 100 % sure she was. I felt it was more than likely she was from the testimony across multiple witnesses. The test didn't add to me feeling that she was. The items purchased also included a cigar we know as well. The more important things I gleaned there were the clearer video from Walmart and the proximity of the Walmart to the payphone being right down the road.

The strength of the preg test being purchased is 4-fold:

1. Video shows SM out at 1:19am purchasing the test from Walmart
2. Video shows that SM locked his vehicle and then unlocked it at Walmart, using his remote, which strongly implies he was alone in his truck.
3. The timing of the purchase and then his call to Heather a mere 15 minutes later from a PAYPHONE links his activities in time and space (and very probably purpose)
4. A preg test implies one or both of the M's *thought* Heather was or could be pregnant. Whether she was or not is not important--they thought she was, or could be, and that adds to motive.

 

[LBDunes]

I'm trying to find where anyone argued that SM is absolved.

I can't, so in regard to the luring theory that the state hung its case on, no one knows what was said about anyone meeting. And Heather didn't know how to contact him why? It appears because he either wasn't in a hurry to meet her, or gave up easily when she didn't want to meet ala the first phone call.

Jilly, you say the luring theory, but isn't that one of the components of the statute of kidnapping in SC? So I would term the theory as a kidnapping theory. Also, from what we know, do you think the jury hung on the luring? I don't think from what I have seen or heard the jurors doubted she was lured. I can't see that since there was a mountain of evidence that SM is a liar. I didn't see anyone in that courtroom that was a bigger liar than SM. Another component mentioned was decoy, which is right up SM's alley of deceit.

 

[Madeleine74]

After 1 initial phone "by someone creepin round in the middle of the night" Heather literally goes on a mission to make sure that that meeting does take place and in that time frame instead of the following day, all of which does not suggest she was moving on nor does it suggest a great date.

I don't know, does it somehow make HE less dead to find SM guilty of planning this methodically than if it happened in the spur of a moment. Pre-meditaion can be formed in a split second BUT yeah I do not buy the "he called" and "she's gone" theory!

So Heather was lured back into being in contact with SM...because she retained feelings for him. And? You can have a nice date AND still have feelings for someone else, those are not mutually exclusive things. Why the need that everything is black/white with no shades of gray? People are complex creatures. Ever know someone who was getting divorced? Did they immediately stop all feeling towards their soon-to-be-ex? This isn't a math equation. She said she had a nice date and she told Bri she was looking forward to getting together with SS the next day. I have no reason to believe Heather was lying about that. It feels like the victim is being blamed a bit for having the feelings she did and acting on them. She was all of 20 years old and impetuous. She trusted SM and should not have, but it was too late by the time she realized that.

Whether SM planned this for a long time or just that day or just an hour or just a few minutes doesn't matter under the law.

 

[TTF14]

So Heather was lured back into being in contact with SM...because she retained feelings for him. And? You can have a nice date AND still have feelings for someone else, those are not mutually exclusive things. Why the need that everything is black/white with no shades of gray? People are complex creatures. Ever know someone who was getting divorced? Did they immediately stop all feeling towards their soon-to-be-ex? This isn't a math equation. She said she had a nice date and she told Bri she was looking forward to getting together with SS the next day. I have no reason to believe Heather was lying about that. It feels like the victim is being blamed a bit for having the feelings she did and acting on them. She was all of 20 years old and impetuous. She trusted SM and should not have, but it was too late by the time she realized that.

Whether SM planned this for a long time or just that day or just an hour or just a few minutes doesn't matter under the law.

Yes, all of this! (BBM)

 

[barcode]

So Heather was lured back into being in contact with SM...because she retained feelings for him. And? You can have a nice date AND still have feelings for someone else, those are not mutually exclusive things. Why the need that everything is black/white with no shades of gray? People are complex creatures. Ever know someone who was getting divorced? Did they immediately stop all feeling towards their soon-to-be-ex? This isn't a math equation. She said she had a nice date and she told Bri she was looking forward to getting together with SS the next day. I have no reason to believe Heather was lying about that. It feels like the victim is being blamed a bit for having the feelings she did and acting on them. She was all of 20 years old and impetuous. She trusted SM and should not have, but it was too late by the time she realized that.

Whether SM planned this for a long time or just that day or just an hour or just a few minutes doesn't matter under the law.

No one is blaming Heather, I certainly am not and I do not think there is confusion as to whether or not she wanted to see him. She would not tell BW the next day as that would be the 19th, she may have told her later that same day and she decided the earlier the better. And I never said HE was lured back into relationship, she seemed quite willing, for all I know she may have been waiting for him to call. Just because she liked him does not make her any less of a victim and yes most likely by his hands.

 

[jillycat]

Jilly, you say the luring theory, but isn't that one of the components of the statute of kidnapping in SC? So I would term the theory as a kidnapping theory. Also, from what we know, do you think the jury hung on the luring? I don't think from what I have seen or heard the jurors doubted she was lured. I can't see that since there was a mountain of evidence that SM is a liar. I didn't see anyone in that courtroom that was a bigger liar than SM. Another component mentioned was decoy, which is right up SM's alley of deceit.

I don't believe that because the statute accommodates something it follows that anyone charged with it is proven to be guilty of that aspect of the statute.

I have no idea if what all the jury believed or disbelieved was plausible and led to either verdict.

It is the state who argues that his first call lured her. It is the state that wants us to believe that this is fact, and that a subsequent call that she made after she had to drive around and make multiple calls to even find him, and the conversation they had was an extension of his luring.

Obviously, the Moorer's brought harm to her. That SM intentionally lured her for that purpose in that phone call, I have no idea and neither does anyone else.

 

[TTF14]

I don't believe that because the statute accommodates something it follows that anyone charged with it is proven to be guilty of that aspect of the statute.

I have no idea what all the jury believed or disbelieved was plausible and led to either verdict.

It is the state who argues that his first call lured her. It is the state that wants us to believe that this is fact, and that a subsequent call that she made after she had to drive around and make multiple calls to even find him, and the conversation they had was an extension of his luring.

Obviously, the Moorer's brought harm to her. That SM intentionally lured her for that purpose in that phone call, I have no idea and neither does anyone else.

If he hadn't hidden his truck from view of the camera when making the call, I'd really question whether or not sure was lured. But, he did, and I think that alone points to luring. And if it could be proven that the sync module was disabled before that day, and then re-enabled after that day, that also speaks to luring.

Aside from those two things, it could definitely just be a meetup gone terribly wrong.

 

[Madeleine74]

There was no evidence or testimony that placed SM and Heather in contact in the several weeks before her disappearance. I realize some people think they must have been in contact, but that's not a fact in evidence.

So Heather knew the affair was over as of (Oct? Nov?), she was sad, she was 'trying' to move on and her friends noted she was 'starting' to be more like the Heather they all knew (and not the withdrawn, paranoid, nervous Heather she had become). Heather was crying when she called Bri and that more than implies frustration, confusion, and feeling weak. She even allegedly said on the call to Bri "why now?" to SM calling her. Her state of mind is fairly clear to me. She wasn't waiting for SM to call, she picked up the call because it was coming from a phone number she did not recognize (and did not expect SM to call).

 

[LBDunes]

No one is blaming Heather, I certainly am not and I do not think there is confusion as to whether or not she wanted to see him. She would not tell BW the next day as that would be the 19th, she may have told her later that day and she decided the earlier the better. And I never said HE was lured back into relationship, she seemed quite willing, for all I know she may have been waiting for him to call. Just because she liked him does not make her any less of a victim and yes most likely by his hands.

I can understand your point of view. I just feel the evidence of the luring in the trial was so clear, whether Heather jumped for joy at the thought of seeing him again or not. If you believe what Bri said, he was wanting to leave his wife and he did say that to Heather and you couple that with what he said to the officer in the driveway that "I broke it off, it ain't right for the kids". That surely does not add up and that smacks of some sinister intent to me.

 

[barcode]

There was no evidence or testimony that placed SM and Heather in contact in the several weeks before her disappearance. I realize some people think they must have been in contact, but that's not a fact in evidence.

So Heather knew the affair was over as of (Oct? Nov?), she was sad, she was 'trying' to move on and her friends noted she was 'starting' to be more like the Heather they all knew (and not the withdrawn, paranoid, nervous Heather she had become). Heather was crying when she called Bri and that more than implies frustration, confusion, and feeling weak. She even allegedly said on the call to Bri "why now?" to SM calling her. Her state of mind is fairly clear to me. She wasn't waiting for SM to call, she picked up the call because it was coming from a phone number she did not recognize (and did not expect SM to call).

Because this has been repeated twice, I am guessing she BW said she was crying when testifying...that I missed Then I do find it harder to believe there was only one phone exchange between BW and HE, they are best friends and someone calls at 1.44 and most likely wakes up BW and is upset that she is crying and call only lasts 2:19, that does not sound right to me with BFF's who I am sure are chatty and concerned.

 

[barcode]

I can understand your point of view. I just feel the evidence of the luring in the trial was so clear, whether Heather jumped for joy at the thought of seeing him again or not. If you believe what Bri said, he was wanting to leave his wife and he did say that to Heather and you couple that with what he said to the officer in the driveway that "I broke it off, it ain't right for the kids". That surely does not add up and that smacks of some sinister intent to me.

That's the point, I do believe BW, I do believe HE told BW that, I do not believe SM told HE that. I believe HE thought in her mind that if she gave what she thought was sound reasoning to BW, she would be more accepting.

 

[jillycat]

So Heather was lured back into being in contact with SM...because she retained feelings for him. And? You can have a nice date AND still have feelings for someone else, those are not mutually exclusive things. Why the need that everything is black/white with no shades of gray? People are complex creatures. Ever know someone who was getting divorced? Did they immediately stop all feeling towards their soon-to-be-ex? This isn't a math equation. She said she had a nice date and she told Bri she was looking forward to getting together with SS the next day. I have no reason to believe Heather was lying about that. It feels like the victim is being blamed a bit for having the feelings she did and acting on them. She was all of 20 years old and impetuous. She trusted SM and should not have, but it was too late by the time she realized that.

Whether SM planned this for a long time or just that day or just an hour or just a few minutes doesn't matter under the law.

Exactly. People are complex and impetuous and have shades of grey. So not every response to a phone call is a result of being lured. Sometimes, a woman just wants to see a man whether she had a date with someone else or not.

So I'm not sure why you're claiming it as fact that she was lured and then working backwards to the landing as proof, because she's gone.

We'll see how the state resolves its 'contact with the victim/your truck went to the landing/now she's gone' theory works out when they have to make Tammy fit into a scenario where she simply doesn't show up in the cast of characters that morning.

Whether SM planned anything criminal does matter under the law if you're claiming he lured her. To get her to take a pregnancy test before the end crime. Or something like that.

 

[LBDunes]

That's the point, I do believe BW, I do believe HE told BW that, I do not believe SM told HE that. I believe HE thought in her mind that if she gave what she thought was sound reasoning to BW, she would be more accepting.

Oh okay, but do you believe SM when he told the officer that he broke it off and wanted to end things because it ain't right and for the kids sake. If he was being truthful there, why would he call Heather at all for whatever reason?

 

[jillycat]

If he hadn't hidden his truck from view of the camera when making the call, I'd really question whether or not sure was lured. But, he did, and I think that alone points to luring. And if it could be proven that the sync module was disabled before that day, and then re-enabled after that day, that also speaks to luring.

Aside from those two things, it could definitely just be a meetup gone terribly wrong.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but if he wasn't luring and she still ended up dead, I can see why he/they would start dumping evidence.

 

[barcode]

Does anyone have a link to the video of the call at 1:39 am?

 

[Knox]

Snipped-

However, both Debbi and Terry Elvis worry not all of the jurors treated the case fairly.

“We keep getting people telling us information that somebody had an agenda,” Debbi Elvis said.

During jury selection, a juror told the judge he is an acquaintance of defense attorney Kirk Truslow, but said he would be able to make his own judgments independent of that relationship.

Truslow said he believed that he would be capable of that as well.

“The defense, as an officer of the court, had a responsibility to the people of the county to say, ‘Hey, that might not be right,’ and pluck that weed before it grew,” Terry Elvis said.

The couple said they think the entire system broke down and the defense, the judge and the juror are all to blame in the decision to have an acquaintance of the defense on the jury.

“There were people that stood up and said they were friends or acquaintances or business acquaintances of ours,” Terry Elvis said. “They excused themselves knowing full well they couldn’t be unfair and couldn’t be unbiased.”

Approximately 800 juror questionnaires were sent out for the case and 300 people showed up for jury selection.

“They could’ve just gone one more or two more just to get a replacement for that and not take that chance,” Debbi Elvis said. “It was too big of a chance.”

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/32319...s-frustrated-with-mistrial-in-kidnapping-case

 

[Madeleine74]

Because this has been repeated twice, I am guessing she BW said she was crying when testifying...that I missed Then I do find it harder to believe there was only one phone exchange between BW and HE, they are best friends and someone calls at 1.44 and most likely wakes up BW and is upset that she is crying and call only lasts 2:19, that does not sound right to me with BFF's who I am sure are chatty and concerned.

Wouldn't you expect there to be another record in the call logs between HE and BW for every phone call or text they exchanged? Any reason why BW would not be truthful about the fact she only spoke to Heather one time that early morning? When do you think they spoke next? We know Heather got home from her date around 1:30am-ish. We know she called Bri at 1:44am. And we know SM called Heather around 1:35am and they spoke for almost 5 minutes.

 

[TTF14]

Does anyone have a link to the video of the call at 1:39 am?

I'd love if all videos were assembled in one place......I do not have time to do this, but it would be super awesome if someone could!