Found Deceased MN - Alayna Ertl, 5, Watkins, 20 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

[Inthedetails]

2 am is closing time

So, sounds like the dad came home after closing. Assuming the perp was with him at the bar, where did he go and what did he do before going to the house? Doesn't really matter, I suppose, but I wonder if he did something that either aroused him (gross) or set him off.

"Matt Ertl arrived home about 2:30 a.m. after a night of softball and socializing. About that time, Alayna’s mother, Kayla, carried her sleeping daughter from the couch to the girl’s bedroom. Anderson, who worked with Matt Ertl for a multistate utility line location company and also played softball with him, showed up an hour or so later." http://www.startribune.com/court-ti...f-killing-meeker-county-5-year-old/391043951/

 

[human]

thank you for the information. As I mentioned in my post, I do not have a link because the information I have is from real life and the situation is in Minnesota.

I am curious because I know the prisons in MN have separate facilities for sex offenders. A prison has so many issues so they need to make them somewhat safe. Here is from the MN statutes .http://www.doc.state.mn.us/DocPolicy2/html/DPW_Display_TOC.asp?Opt=202.110.htm

AUTHORITY: Minn. Stat. 241.01

PURPOSE: To define program, living or assignment status for offenders.

APPLICABILITY: All adult facilities

DIRECTIVE: Offenders must be assigned a status that authorizes respective privileges or restrictions. The assigned status and/or status changes must be designated in the correctional operations management system (COMS).

DEFINITIONS:
Administrative Segregation – a form of separation from the general population administered by authorized staff when continued presence of the offender in the general population would pose a serious threat to life, property, self, staff or other offenders or to the orderly operation or security of the facility. Offenders pending investigation for disciplinary or criminal proceedings, detainees, and pre-sentence holds may be included in this status designation. (Policy 301.085 and Directive 301.083)

 

[human]

So, sounds like the dad came home after closing. Assuming the perp was with him at the bar, where did he go and what did he do before going to the house? Doesn't really matter, I suppose, but I wonder if he did something that either aroused him (gross) or set him off.

"Matt Ertl arrived home about 2:30 a.m. after a night of softball and socializing. About that time, Alayna’s mother, Kayla, carried her sleeping daughter from the couch to the girl’s bedroom. Anderson, who worked with Matt Ertl for a multistate utility line location company and also played softball with him, showed up an hour or so later." http://www.startribune.com/court-ti...f-killing-meeker-county-5-year-old/391043951/

The bars have been closed for awhile. Good point. What was he doing.

 

[ninij9]

The bars have been closed for awhile. Good point. What was he doing.

Plotting his crime. Or drinking himself into a perverted stupor.



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[Mariposa]

I am curious because I know the prisons in MN have separate facilities for sex offenders. A prison has so many issues so they need to make them somewhat safe. Here is from the MN statutes .http://www.doc.state.mn.us/DocPolicy2/html/DPW_Display_TOC.asp?Opt=202.110.htm

AUTHORITY: Minn. Stat. 241.01

PURPOSE: To define program, living or assignment status for offenders.

APPLICABILITY: All adult facilities

DIRECTIVE: Offenders must be assigned a status that authorizes respective privileges or restrictions. The assigned status and/or status changes must be designated in the correctional operations management system (COMS).

DEFINITIONS:
Administrative Segregation – a form of separation from the general population administered by authorized staff when continued presence of the offender in the general population would pose a serious threat to life, property, self, staff or other offenders or to the orderly operation or security of the facility. Offenders pending investigation for disciplinary or criminal083)

As an attorney in MN (haven't tried to get verified yet so take with grain of salt) I really dont think all sex offenders are in ad seg by default or cloistered away from other prisoners in state correctional facilities (prisons). Of course they may tend to end up in certain MN prisons (for instance, Oak Park Heights) that harbor the more long time serious offenders including those doing life sentences for murder. But kept in their own wings for their own safety... No not necessarily.

 

[Mariposa]

Can the murder charge be upgraded to first degree if additional evidence warrants that? Please say yes.


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My understanding is they could take it to a grand jury to get a first degree murder indictment. They probably will. It's easier to charge it initially as second degree and then develop and present the evidence on premeditation/first degree elements later.

 

[Rocco]

As an attorney in MN (haven't tried to get verified yet so take with grain of salt) I really dont think all sex offenders are in ad seg by default or cloistered away from other prisoners in state correctional facilities (prisons). Of course they may tend to end up in certain MN prisons (for instance, Oak Park Heights) that harbor the more long time serious offenders including those doing life sentences for murder. But kept in their own wings for their own safety... No not necessarily.

:wagon::welcome4::welcome6:

 

[human]

As an attorney in MN (haven't tried to get verified yet so take with grain of salt) I really dont think all sex offenders are in ad seg by default or cloistered away from other prisoners in state correctional facilities (prisons). Of course they may tend to end up in certain MN prisons (for instance, Oak Park Heights) that harbor the more long time serious offenders including those doing life sentences for murder. But kept in their own wings for their own safety... No not necessarily.

Can you check it out? All sex offenders are not in Oak Park Heights. They have them at Lino Lakes and Stillwater, if those places still exist.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I am curious because I know the prisons in MN have separate facilities for sex offenders. A prison has so many issues so they need to make them somewhat safe. Here is from the MN statutes .http://www.doc.state.mn.us/DocPolicy2/html/DPW_Display_TOC.asp?Opt=202.110.htm

AUTHORITY: Minn. Stat. 241.01

PURPOSE: To define program, living or assignment status for offenders.

APPLICABILITY: All adult facilities

DIRECTIVE: Offenders must be assigned a status that authorizes respective privileges or restrictions. The assigned status and/or status changes must be designated in the correctional operations management system (COMS).

DEFINITIONS:
Administrative Segregation – a form of separation from the general population administered by authorized staff when continued presence of the offender in the general population would pose a serious threat to life, property, self, staff or other offenders or to the orderly operation or security of the facility. Offenders pending investigation for disciplinary or criminal proceedings, detainees, and pre-sentence holds may be included in this status designation. (Policy 301.085 and Directive 301.083)

(BBM)
Thank you for the information. From what I'm reading here and what I know of in the case I'm speaking of, it looks as if what I was told is true. This individual who is a convicted, multi felon child sexual offender was placed in the general population within the prison system, (not jail); in Minnesota.

 

[IBsleuthin]

As an attorney in MN (haven't tried to get verified yet so take with grain of salt) I really dont think all sex offenders are in ad seg by default or cloistered away from other prisoners in state correctional facilities (prisons). Of course they may tend to end up in certain MN prisons (for instance, Oak Park Heights) that harbor the more long time serious offenders including those doing life sentences for murder. But kept in their own wings for their own safety... No not necessarily.

(BBM)


:wagon::welcome6::cheers:

THANK YOU so much for joining! I also will support and fully endorse your use of the words, "Tend to" and "for instance". I completely understand what you are saying here, that not all sex offenders end up in Oak Park Heights, you were using that as an example.

As I mentioned in several previous posts, the case that I know of, the person was sent to prison and was placed in with the general population. His family was told that is the way it is, deal with it. They were told that unless and until there is a problem he will remain there.

 

[Mariposa]

Can you check it out? All sex offenders are not in Oak Park Heights. They have them at Lino Lakes and Stillwater, if those places still exist.

Sure you're right they have sex offenders at many different prisons. But for murderers on life sentences many end up at Oak Park Heights, which is the max security prison in MN. They have murderers whose crimes did and didn't involve sex offenses mixing it up -- so if hypothetically this defendant ends up there he will not necessarily be kept from others just due to the nature of his crime alone.

 

[human]

Sure you're right they have sex offenders at many different prisons. But for murderers on life sentences many end up at Oak Park Heights, which is the max security prison in MN. They have murderers whose crimes did and didn't involve sex offenses mixing it up -- so if hypothetically this defendant ends up there he will not necessarily be kept from others just due to the nature of his crime alone.

I am belaboring this point because so often people say that the sex offender will get his due by other inmates. It certainly seems to happen.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I'm sure that the prison system as in civilian life has it's generalizations and the media as well as word of mouth tend to create urban legends of most of it. I'm nearly certain that it's a case by case situation. Far too many variables.

We have a man living in our town right now that was in prison for molesting his own daughter. The whole town is in an uproar because he purchased a house not two blocks from the local school. However, apparently what he was charged with and went to prison for did not include him not being next to a school which none of us can understand.

He also seemed to come out unscathed from prison. He returned to life here and many of his old friends are seen often visiting at his home.

I do not understand any of it.

What I do know is that in prison, people are beaten and killed for a wide variety of things not just child sexual offenses. Part of me thinks this notion is promoted because as a society we just hope and wish that this was in fact true. Mostly I think because we just don't think the justice system delves out a fitting punishment for these types of crimes and we WANT to think that once inside these pieces of complete garbage pay and pay dearly by being beaten.

However, what I know of these personality types is that they are shape shifters and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they do just fine where they are at.

 

[Mariposa]

I am belaboring this point because so often people say that the sex offender will get his due by other inmates. It certainly seems to happen.

Point taken. MN prisons are probably pretty well run in the scheme of all states but things do happen, inmate violence and even murder.

On another note, the complaint said ZA was alone on gas station surveillance buying bottled water in Browerville at 830 am which is maybe an hour drive from Watkins. So he must have left the house no later than 7/730 am? The complaint references him seen on a surveillance tape at the cabin property clubhouse in terms of what he was wearing, but doesn't give a time I don't think. I wonder what time he called his father for permission to use the cabin, that wasn't specified either.

ETA: Motley (nearest town to the cabin) would only be a half hour or so drive from Browerville.. So he could have possibly arrived at the cabin as early as 9am which is almost six hours before LE got the cabin tip from his father...

 

[DatelineFan]

I wonder if the father had supicions?

ZA so far does not seem to fit the profile. He had a job. He played softball. He played golf. He did not appear to be a loner.

Who knows. FB does not paint an accurate picture hardly ever.

I think many sick abusers fit right in. That's how they gain access to victims, and that's how some abuse for years. I think we all like to believe we would see how sick they are by some of these indicators, because it makes us feel more safe.

 

[human]

What I am mystified by is his lack of concern about hiding his crime. Has anyone seen this before?

He was standing knee deep in a swamp. Bizarre. Minnesota really does have the mosquito as the state bird.

He played softball,went out to bars, talked to the father, all which would seem like normal things to do. Then he goes into his psycho mode.

The guy who killed little Alanna in Texas, was it, had a secret life on being on Craigs list for sex activities.

Will ZA turn out to have been leading a secret life of some kind? Child ? He is 25 years old. I don't think he woke up a couple of days ago and turned into an overnight monster.

 

[Cyberburn]

Sure you're right they have sex offenders at many different prisons. But for murderers on life sentences many end up at Oak Park Heights, which is the max security prison in MN. They have murderers whose crimes did and didn't involve sex offenses mixing it up -- so if hypothetically this defendant ends up there he will not necessarily be kept from others just due to the nature of his crime alone.

The cabin is near Dru's hometown.
Dru's killer has got a delay for his appeal hearings (just in the news).
I've seen one news report that hinted at the Jacob Wetterling case.
The whole area is so worked up right now. You can't believe the posts people are making about what they want to do to him. I think he will be protected.

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[Mariposa]

Well whatever nerve he had that allowed him to brazenly take and kill this child, he sure was half hearted about his own "suicide attempt". Cutting a wrist a little bit when there was at least one gun sitting next to his "suicide note". And yeah the standing in the swamp crap. I noticed in his mug shot he has on the green vest given to suicidal arrestees.

 

[NewMama]

What I am mystified by is his lack of concern about hiding his crime. Has anyone seen this before?

He was standing knee deep in a swamp. Bizarre. Minnesota really does have the mosquito as the state bird.

He played softball,went out to bars, talked to the father, all which would seem like normal things to do. Then he goes into his psycho mode.

The guy who killed little Alanna in Texas, was it, had a secret life on being on Craigs list for sex activities.

Will ZA turn out to have been leading a secret life of some kind? Child ? He is 25 years old. I don't think he woke up a couple of days ago and turned into an overnight monster.

This is also where I'm stuck. He appears to have a lack of concern in hiding his crime (he and daughter are missing with dad's truck) - yet he submerges her under water and debris. Why bother concealing if you're planning to take your life?

That's why I'm curious as to any alcohol or substance usage. And maybe there's not - his actions were depraved regardless.




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[2Hope4]

:tantrum:An autopsy showed the child died of homicidal violence, with evidence of strangulation and blunt force trauma to the head. It was also apparent that the child had been sexually assaulted.

http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/family-friend-charged-in-childs-murder/305798677