Found Deceased MN - Alayna Ertl, 5, Watkins, 20 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

  • #361
The second bar, Gordies, is extremely close to the Ertl residence--like a block or two I think? Small town blocks too, not big city blocks. Very walkable. But yeah what the heck was doing between bar close and going to the Ertls--did he go home with someone else?

I kind of don't understand if it is correct ZA had no vehicle. Because his address/residence was in Coon Rapids, which is quite a distance from Watkins (over 60 miles).
 
  • #362
The second bar, Gordies, is extremely close to the Ertl residence--like a block or two I think? Small town blocks too, not big city blocks. Very walkable. But yeah what the heck was doing between bar close and going to the Ertls--did he go home with someone else?

I kind of don't understand if it is correct ZA had no vehicle. Because his address/residence was in Coon Rapids, which is quite a distance from Watkins (over 60 miles).

Since they had a driver from the first bar to the second, maybe after the second bar, he made his way back to wherever his car was and the proceeded to the house.

?

But, NOT having his car at the house would explain why he stole his friend's car.

jmo
 
  • #363
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zac was said not to have a vehicle. Meaning just that night, or does he not own a vehicle period? The second bar was not far from the Ertle home. Maybe he walked? Who knows, there are still gaps in the story which make no sense.

Maybe he spent the missing hour with the 'driver'. Was the driver a woman who rejected him?
 
  • #364
It's cyclical and self perpetuating.

They have wrong thoughts so they look at wrong things in order to feed the wrong thoughts, and eventually they put their hands where they don't belong, in order to carry out their wrong thoughts and recreate a living scenario of the wrong things they shouldn't have been thinking about and looking at in the first place. It started with a seed and they watered and nourished it with more wrong thoughts and more wrong images until they become accustomed and hardened to evil. And the evil is raging and hungry. It demands thoughts that are deeper, darker, more sinister and vile ... a bottomless pit ... a cesspool of putrid stench. Suddenly everyone in their presence becomes a potential victim who didn't even see it coming.

Albert Fish
Ed Gein
H.H. Holmes
Jack the Ripper
Ted Bundy
John Wayne Gacy
Jeffery Dahmer
Arthur Shawcross

How? Why?

Because we aren't mind readers. If people will not say no to themselves and understand that some thoughts are purely evil and need to be put out of the mind immediately, never to be acted upon, how are they to be stopped? How do you reverse the damage they have done to themselves in order to prevent victimization and save the lives of others? They have no self control / impulse control because they've given in to their disgusting appetites one step at a time ... probably for years. These monsters are self made. They chose to think things, see things, do things. We all have a choice. They chose.
 
  • #365
It's cyclical and self perpetuating.

They have wrong thoughts so they look at wrong things in order to feed the wrong thoughts, and eventually they put their hands where they don't belong, in order to carry out their wrong thoughts and recreate a living scenario of the wrong things they shouldn't have been thinking about and looking at in the first place. It started with a seed and they watered and nourished it with more wrong thoughts and more wrong images until they become accustomed and hardened to evil. And the evil is raging and hungry. It demands thoughts that are deeper, darker, more sinister and vile ... a bottomless pit ... a cesspool of putrid stench. Suddenly everyone in their presence becomes a potential victim who didn't even see it coming.

Albert Fish
Ed Gein
H.H. Holmes
Jack the Ripper
Ted Bundy
John Wayne Gacy
Jeffery Dahmer
Arthur Shawcross

How? Why?

Because we aren't mind readers. If people will not say no to themselves and understand that some thoughts are purely evil and need to be put out of the mind immediately, never to be acted upon, how are they to be stopped? How do you reverse the damage they have done to themselves in order to prevent victimization and save the lives of others? They have no self control / impulse control because they've given in to their disgusting appetites one step at a time ... probably for years. These monsters are self made. They chose to think things, see things, do things. We all have a choice. They chose.

Great post missgulfsouth, and I agree! There's a saying that goes: You can’t stop a bird from flying over your head but you don’t have to let it build a nest.
 
  • #366
I didn't see the part about Alana having a babysitter. Please tell me she had a baby sitter.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I wondered about that too. Who stayed with her while the parents were out?
 
  • #367
I wondered about that too. Who stayed with her while the parents were out?

They apparently have a lot of extended family members in town. I'm sure someone was with the children.
 
  • #368
According to Nancy Grace tonight, ZA 10 years ago (as a 16-year old) continually stalked and harassed a 31-year-old neighbor in a completely inappropriate, sexual fashion, and she eventually had to call the police. He made a lot of inappropriate comments to her, even knocking on her door and doing so. He stole items from her too. Sounds like he was a sexual predator from early on.
 
  • #369
Have you heard the story of 10 year old Victoria Martens in New Mexico?

That is the despicable, evil behavior I'm talking about. And it just renders me speechless, except to say ... DEATH PENALTY.
 
  • #370
According to Nancy Grace tonight, ZA 10 years ago (as a 16-year old) continually stalked and harassed a 31-year-old neighbor in a completely inappropriate, sexual fashion, and she eventually had to call the police. He made a lot of inappropriate comments to her, even knocking on her door and doing so. He stole items from her too. Sounds like he was a sexual predator from early on.
More specific details are at this link:
KARE 11

( Sent from http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/court-records-shows-andersons-dark-side/307490120 )

*previously linked*

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
  • #371
Ugh yes that case makes me sick.

Have you heard the story of 10 year old Victoria Martens in New Mexico?

That is the despicable, evil behavior I'm talking about. And it just renders me speechless, except to say ... DEATH PENALTY.
 
  • #372
According to Nancy Grace tonight, ZA 10 years ago (as a 16-year old) continually stalked and harassed a 31-year-old neighbor in a completely inappropriate, sexual fashion, and she eventually had to call the police. He made a lot of inappropriate comments to her, even knocking on her door and doing so. He stole items from her too. Sounds like he was a sexual predator from early on.

I caught a little bit of her show. She showed the really nice facility he's being housed in. Lots of group activities. I certainly hope he's participating and interacting with other inmates (and they know who he is and what he did - heh).
 
  • #373
They apparently have a lot of extended family members in town. I'm sure someone was with the children.

I don't doubt that someone was with her. I was just wondering if there was another person spending the night there, since they got home at 2 am. It isn't that big of house---so wondering where everyone was sleeping if there was another adult there too.
 
  • #374
I think most people who do not have an attraction to children feel the same way. But, I think if it could possibly give one person a way to control their urges, it would be worth it. When it comes to finding these people before they offend, I think we have to do something different than what we are doing, which is nothing or hoping they seek treatment on their own.

I guess, I'll start here.
Regarding this post, a following post about not wanting to be seen as a creepy granpa, and several others that responded to either.
1st. There is no treatment for pedo's other than to put them down. They are not innocent people with a sickness. They are predators and they know what they are doing is wrong. They do not have uncontrolable urges, rather they choose not to control their urges. These people are not good at hiding what they are, it's just that everyone is not good at being able to see it. I can always pick them out in short order.
My wife thinks it's uncanny, how I know. I have 4 kids, daughter21, son20, daughter16 and daughter9. Its my job to know.
last year our 15yo at the time was talking to a boy 16 from her school and since we dont allow her to date, we picked him up one day to come over and hang out at our house. It was immediately obvious to me that his intentions were to get her away from us and I had within an hour or so had to explain the rules.(he was real handsy) if you will. I told my wife, he the stalker type within a day or 2. They continued to talk at school and he came over only one other time after the 1st time because my wife asked me to give him a chance. He figured out the second visit, nothing was going to happen and lost interest. About a week in to summer last hear he stopped communicating with my daughter and gave her some story about being grounded. I told my wife that more likley than not he had found him a youger girlfriend in his neighborhood who's parents worked during the day, so it would be open season for him. She shamed me for implying he was a perv., and not just a typical teenager. Fast forward to beginnig of last school year and within a couple of weeks my daughter had told us he has a girlfriend at school and that his girlfriend found out he was cheating (keep in mind im telling this form my teens perspective) with a 10yo girl. At this point this boy is 16years old. I didn't doubt this, but did take into account that kids exagerate. several months later my daughter go a letter from him, he was in juvanile for harrassing the 10yo girl.

It is unfortunate that we live in a world where everyone thinks they have to walk on eggshells around issues like this. Don't offend anyone, wouldnt want to falsley accuse anyone, etc. Well, let me tell you this. I would rather confront a creeper about eyeballing my daughter and be wrong, than to ignore it and live with the fact that the same creeper snatched her form the bus stop, or crawled through a window and assaulted her.

It should be against the law to plea down a molestation charge. The penalty for this type of crime should be death and we should inact not only the pedo's right to a speedy trial, but sosiety's right to one. Run all their appeals back to back, finalize, put the needle in, and move on with life. I believe in the right to a fair trial, but we have let criminals use the laws that are set up to protect the innocent from being falsley imprisoned to their advantage. It is way past time for a more common since approach to these matters. Why in cases like this is it really even nessacery to have a trial. Reall!!! Other than clarifying that there was no one else involved. Skip the formalities, and the expence. Their are any number of dads that would gladly show up at a government approved, predetermined field and put a bullet in this devil.
 
  • #375
I guess, I'll start here.
Regarding this post, a following post about not wanting to be seen as a creepy granpa, and several others that responded to either.
1st. There is no treatment for pedo's other than to put them down. They are not innocent people with a sickness. They are predators and they know what they are doing is wrong. They do not have uncontrolable urges, rather they choose not to control their urges. These people are not good at hiding what they are, it's just that everyone is not good at being able to see it. I can always pick them out in short order.
My wife thinks it's uncanny, how I know. I have 4 kids, daughter21, son20, daughter16 and daughter9. Its my job to know.
last year our 15yo at the time was talking to a boy 16 from her school and since we dont allow her to date, we picked him up one day to come over and hang out at our house. It was immediately obvious to me that his intentions were to get her away from us and I had within an hour or so had to explain the rules.(he was real handsy) if you will. I told my wife, he the stalker type within a day or 2. They continued to talk at school and he came over only one other time after the 1st time because my wife asked me to give him a chance. He figured out the second visit, nothing was going to happen and lost interest. About a week in to summer last hear he stopped communicating with my daughter and gave her some story about being grounded. I told my wife that more likley than not he had found him a youger girlfriend in his neighborhood who's parents worked during the day, so it would be open season for him. She shamed me for implying he was a perv., and not just a typical teenager. Fast forward to beginnig of last school year and within a couple of weeks my daughter had told us he has a girlfriend at school and that his girlfriend found out he was cheating (keep in mind im telling this form my teens perspective) with a 10yo girl. At this point this boy is 16years old. I didn't doubt this, but did take into account that kids exagerate. several months later my daughter go a letter from him, he was in juvanile for harrassing the 10yo girl.

It is unfortunate that we live in a world where everyone thinks they have to walk on eggshells around issues like this. Don't offend anyone, wouldnt want to falsley accuse anyone, etc. Well, let me tell you this. I would rather confront a creeper about eyeballing my daughter and be wrong, than to ignore it and live with the fact that the same creeper snatched her form the bus stop, or crawled through a window and assaulted her.

It should be against the law to plea down a molestation charge. The penalty for this type of crime should be death and we should inact not only the pedo's right to a speedy trial, but sosiety's right to one. Run all their appeals back to back, finalize, put the needle in, and move on with life. I believe in the right to a fair trial, but we have let criminals use the laws that are set up to protect the innocent from being falsley imprisoned to their advantage. It is way past time for a more common since approach to these matters. Why in cases like this is it really even nessacery to have a trial. Reall!!! Other than clarifying that there was no one else involved. Skip the formalities, and the expence. Their are any number of dads that would gladly show up at a government approved, predetermined field and put a bullet in this devil.

Agree. This behavior begins early (elementary school age), and if children are allowed to get away with "little things", those "little things" grow and grow and grow. By the time they are an adult, they could be a full blown psychopath, having eroded any conscience or empathy, when the only thing that matters to them is what they want, when they want it ... and that puts everyone else in danger. Menace to Society 101.
 
  • #376
I guess, I'll start here.
Regarding this post, a following post about not wanting to be seen as a creepy granpa, and several others that responded to either.
1st. There is no treatment for pedo's other than to put them down. They are not innocent people with a sickness. They are predators and they know what they are doing is wrong. They do not have uncontrolable urges, rather they choose not to control their urges. These people are not good at hiding what they are, it's just that everyone is not good at being able to see it. I can always pick them out in short order.
My wife thinks it's uncanny, how I know. I have 4 kids, daughter21, son20, daughter16 and daughter9. Its my job to know.
last year our 15yo at the time was talking to a boy 16 from her school and since we dont allow her to date, we picked him up one day to come over and hang out at our house. It was immediately obvious to me that his intentions were to get her away from us and I had within an hour or so had to explain the rules.(he was real handsy) if you will. I told my wife, he the stalker type within a day or 2. They continued to talk at school and he came over only one other time after the 1st time because my wife asked me to give him a chance. He figured out the second visit, nothing was going to happen and lost interest. About a week in to summer last hear he stopped communicating with my daughter and gave her some story about being grounded. I told my wife that more likley than not he had found him a youger girlfriend in his neighborhood who's parents worked during the day, so it would be open season for him. She shamed me for implying he was a perv., and not just a typical teenager. Fast forward to beginnig of last school year and within a couple of weeks my daughter had told us he has a girlfriend at school and that his girlfriend found out he was cheating (keep in mind im telling this form my teens perspective) with a 10yo girl. At this point this boy is 16years old. I didn't doubt this, but did take into account that kids exagerate. several months later my daughter go a letter from him, he was in juvanile for harrassing the 10yo girl.

It is unfortunate that we live in a world where everyone thinks they have to walk on eggshells around issues like this. Don't offend anyone, wouldnt want to falsley accuse anyone, etc. Well, let me tell you this. I would rather confront a creeper about eyeballing my daughter and be wrong, than to ignore it and live with the fact that the same creeper snatched her form the bus stop, or crawled through a window and assaulted her.

It should be against the law to plea down a molestation charge. The penalty for this type of crime should be death and we should inact not only the pedo's right to a speedy trial, but sosiety's right to one. Run all their appeals back to back, finalize, put the needle in, and move on with life. I believe in the right to a fair trial, but we have let criminals use the laws that are set up to protect the innocent from being falsley imprisoned to their advantage. It is way past time for a more common since approach to these matters. Why in cases like this is it really even nessacery to have a trial. Reall!!! Other than clarifying that there was no one else involved. Skip the formalities, and the expence. Their are any number of dads that would gladly show up at a government approved, predetermined field and put a bullet in this devil.



My life-long friend and I both do something we call, 'laser scan' whenever someone new comes into our lives.

She grew up in an alcoholic home and has the ability to identify people with alcoholic problems from a mile off.

I, on the other hand have deadly radar when it comes to predators.

Neither one of us went off to a special course to learn these skills, we didn't get a degree for them, we have no card in our purses to prove we have this skill. We have decided that these are survival skills learned early in childhood and refined through the years.

I'll spare you the details of the education I received that helped me develop my special set of skills. These were honed on the stone of time over multiple events that had a profoundly cumulative effect on me. I now have a whole new set of skills due to PTSD.

In that same way that I can scan for predators, I can also smell PTSD on someone as if they wear a special cologne that they can't wash off. Chuck, as I read your post I'm getting some faint wiffs of PTSD and I'm asking you, when you can, when you are able to just sit with yourself and someone you trust and examine if this might be true. PTSD comes in an amazing and dizzying array of degrees. Symptoms for one do not fit all and the daily affects of PTSD can cloak us without even knowing it. One component of it is called hyper vigilance. I have this in spades. This is all just something to consider. I'm not diagnosing you or anything like that. Just a suggestion.

There is a better way of life, I found it through a lot of counseling and support.
 
  • #377
I wondered about that too. Who stayed with her while the parents were out?


The Oxymoron of this whole problem is that she was better off alone.
 
  • #378
My life-long friend and I both do something we call, 'laser scan' whenever someone new comes into our lives.

She grew up in an alcoholic home and has the ability to identify people with alcoholic problems from a mile off.

I, on the other hand have deadly radar when it comes to predators.

Neither one of us went off to a special course to learn these skills, we didn't get a degree for them, we have no card in our purses to prove we have this skill. We have decided that these are survival skills learned early in childhood and refined through the years.

I'll spare you the details of the education I received that helped me develop my special set of skills. These were honed on the stone of time over multiple events that had a profoundly cumulative effect on me. I now have a whole new set of skills due to PTSD.

In that same way that I can scan for predators, I can also smell PTSD on someone as if they wear a special cologne that they can't wash off. Chuck, as I read your post I'm getting some faint wiffs of PTSD and I'm asking you, when you can, when you are able to just sit with yourself and someone you trust and examine if this might be true. PTSD comes in an amazing and dizzying array of degrees. Symptoms for one do not fit all and the daily affects of PTSD can cloak us without even knowing it. One component of it is called hyper vigilance. I have this in spades. This is all just something to consider. I'm not diagnosing you or anything like that. Just a suggestion.

There is a better way of life, I found it through a lot of counseling and support.

Would you care to elaborate more about what it is that sets your radar off? Is it a certain look in the eyes? Do you spot it equally in men and women?

Personally, I can spot mental illness in the eyes in both men and women, and I warn my children to steer clear of those people. Additionally, I'm very leery of people with a slovenly, unkempt appearance, as this carelessness tends to extend to one's whole life ... sloppy in manners, hygeine, morals, character, judgement, idleness, laziness. Many pedophiles / child rapists and killers look very disturbed in the eyes and sloppy in appearance (ex. Jessica Lunsford's killer) ... but then there are also the neat professional men like Jerry Sandusky (his eyes give him away). I'm interested to hear your thoughts on any commonalities that are immediate red flags. TIA
 
  • #379
I think it's a very dangerous mindset to believe you can *just tell* who is a pedophile and who is not.
 
  • #380
I think it's a very dangerous mindset to believe you can *just tell* who is a pedophile and who is not.

I get what you are saying. Sometimes someone can give you the willies and you don't know why. You don't know that they are a pedophile or an axe murderer. But ... when someone gives me a bad vibe, I TRUST THAT. I've always had very good instincts that have been proven right enough times, that I don't ignore it. I believe it has saved my life and my children's lives many times.
 

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