MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #11

[nmogren]

You guys keep coming up with theories that involve a vehicle. Why don't you expand on it to make it believable? So the pedo priest hires someone to procure a boy and the guy drives (again, really with the car) down a dead-end street, hides his car somewhere randomly, puts on his pantyhose mask and grabs Jacob, walks up DR driveway and then what? And Why up DR driveway?

We need to remember that all the cars that passed the boys going to Tom Thumb were accounted for. NONE passed on the way back so perp was already in place waiting.

Not if the person the priest hired to procure a boy was DR.


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[Trino]

There has never been evidence that DR was a sexual predator. Obviously, nothing was found on his computer, and I'm certain FBI computer experts examined it very well. If DR has a squeaky clean 30+ year teaching record, no criminal record, no evidence linking him to homosexual behavior (not homosexual friendships), no motive, no DNA evidence, nothing found as admissible evidence from the farm, and he has had a conversation with Patty Wetterling, why can't we get past his involvement? LE appears to be investigating elsewhere so why are we stuck in a DR mode?

If you read the latest from Joy the Curious, it was about Jennifer, the cashier at the video store. It was enlightening to me to read about the chicken noodle soup, tomato soup, and crackers, her idea about the sketch, and the statement the boy will never be found. A comment was that person looked like the abductor of Dru Shodin (I agree.) Is this person still alive? Has he been questioned?

 

[nmogren]

But how does anyone here with the alternate non-DR theory explain how the perp got into position if all cars that passed boys were accounted for? They walked, but how did perp know boys passed if they were not in one of the cars that passed boys on their way there? How did a random perp know that these boys were going to be passing DR driveway at exactly the time they did? In order to know that boys would be coming back that way, they had to see them going that way. Or are you guys saying a random pedo-child abductor purposefully chose to go into a street that had no outlet virtually eliminating a 2nd direction to get away and just stood there in the dark on a driveway that the homeowner could come down at any time as far as they knew with black pantyhose on his head and hoped a boy would happen by?

If you are giving an alternate theory, please explain the MO. Your random pedo standing on DR driveway without a car is not believable.

I really think it has to be a case where DR simply did the abducting and someone else took him from there.


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[nmogren]

Shifted to where? I see no indication of that. Joy may be thinking that and wishing that so she can catapult to fame with her strange claims.

Has LE come out and said that DR is no longer a POI and they have others that are?

This is a great line. Haha.

 

[nmogren]

I don't know that Patty W. actually said that she applauds or approves what Joy is doing. I believe she said in The Hunt that Joy was somewhat of quite a stalker for a long time before she talked to her so I guess it's ok. That is what I got out of it as being her opinion of Joy.

I think that is a very harsh review of the show. I applaud John Walsh for featuring this 25 year old case and bringing attention to it again. Yes, all the details were not explained (they did not have a 3 hour time slot) and some of the re-enactments were a bit off. But honestly, I think overall it was very well done and the scenes were haunting. The actor they picked to play Jacob was a dead ringer and portraying the boys on the ground....it just gives me shivers.

You have to remember that they make these shows palpable to the general viewer. They can't go into 15 different scenarios and minute details. People will get confused and lose interested. IMO they picked the most plausible angle at the moment (that Jared and Paynesville cases are related) and they went with that angle.

I think John has done some tremendous work in his career and he would never "half-" a show on a topic like this. He of all people understands how the Wetterlings feel. If you have media contacts, then ask another show to take a different angle. But don't begrudge John Walsh for making a very good effort at one particular theory.

And how do you know that LE and FBI have not changed their focus? Are you a member of the investigation team? If not, they how can you say that? It sounds like you think you can do better than Joy...so where is your blog? Who cares if this puts Joy's writing in the spotlight. It's for a good cause and she's done more interviews and divulged more details on this case than anyone else has. IMO, the only person who has a say in Joy's intentions is Patty Wetterling. Obviously she supports Joy's efforts, so I think we should follow Patty's lead. Do you think Patty would allow a woman to gain fame and fortune off of her son and family's tragedy?! Of course not.

 

[thenotebook]

Regarding the interview with Jennifer - I still think the sketch of the guy at the store looks like DH. The wrinkle around the eye(s) for sure.

And regarding the car. Isn't it possible that a car could have backed up into the driveway and sat waiting, engine turned off....that is how I've always pictured the scene. It was so dark if the car was 40 feet/yards up the driveway, the boys may not have seen it. And maybe the guy waited a few minutes before starting the engine and driving away, so the boys wouldn't see it.

The driveway was so contaminated by LE, Kevin, etc that I don't see how they can 100% sure say they have all tracks accounted for. His footprint is right next to a tire track. It still seems like a real possibility to me.

 

[nmogren]

This also has been brought to light before.

DR is not cleared, we don't know what evidence they have, only that it is not enough to convict. I believe he was friends with plenty homosexuals and also pedophiles. About 70 priests a mile away at the Abbey.

There has never been evidence that DR was a sexual predator. Obviously, nothing was found on his computer, and I'm certain FBI computer experts examined it very well. If DR has a squeaky clean 30+ year teaching record, no criminal record, no evidence linking him to homosexual behavior (not homosexual friendships), no motive, no DNA evidence, nothing found as admissible evidence from the farm, and he has had a conversation with Patty Wetterling, why can't we get past his involvement? LE appears to be investigating elsewhere so why are we stuck in a DR mode?

If you read the latest from Joy the Curious, it was about Jennifer, the cashier at the video store. It was enlightening to me to read about the chicken noodle soup, tomato soup, and crackers, her idea about the sketch, and the statement the boy will never be found. A comment was that person looked like the abductor of Dru Shodin (I agree.) Is this person still alive? Has he been questioned?

 

[thenotebook]

I don't know that Patty W. actually said that she applauds or approves what Joy is doing. I believe she said in The Hunt that Joy was somewhat of quite a stalker for a long time before she talked to her so I guess it's ok. That is what I got out of it as being her opinion of Joy.

I was under the impression that Patty is grateful for the time and effort Joy has put into this. I don't have a specific source in mind, but WCCO did a couple of stories with Joy and Patty so perhaps that is where I am recalling that impression. I didn't mean to put words in Patty's mouth. I hope she approves of Joy

 

[HEY YOU!]

Regarding the interview with Jennifer - I still think the sketch of the guy at the store looks like DH. The wrinkle around the eye(s) for sure.

And regarding the car. Isn't it possible that a car could have backed up into the driveway and sat waiting, engine turned off....that is how I've always pictured the scene. It was so dark if the car was 40 feet/yards up the driveway, the boys may not have seen it. And maybe the guy waited a few minutes before starting the engine and driving away, so the boys wouldn't see it.

The driveway was so contaminated by LE, Kevin, etc that I don't see how they can 100% sure say they have all tracks accounted for. His footprint is right next to a tire track. It still seems like a real possibility to me.

Well, even if it was DH how did he know where the boys were going? And he didn't drive by boys on their way home so how did he get to DR driveway?

Regarding the car, once Kevin came forward LE knew that all other tire tracks were accounted for. No car can completely drive over another cars tire track even if they tried. There would be evidence of another track if there was one.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I was under the impression that Patty is grateful for the time and effort Joy has put into this. I don't have a specific source in mind, but WCCO did a couple of stories with Joy and Patty so perhaps that is where I am recalling that impression. I didn't mean to put words in Patty's mouth. I hope she approves of Joy

If my son was kidnapped, I would be extremely grateful for any and all help and exposure that I received. Why do you HOPE she approves? Are you Joy?

 

[Trackergd]

You guys keep coming up with theories that involve a vehicle. Why don't you expand on it to make it believable? So the pedo priest hires someone to procure a boy and the guy drives (again, really with the car) down a dead-end street, hides his car somewhere randomly, puts on his pantyhose mask and grabs Jacob, walks up DR driveway and then what? And Why up DR driveway?

We need to remember that all the cars that passed the boys going to Tom Thumb were accounted for. NONE passed on the way back so perp was already in place waiting.

With regard to a vehicle:

1. Jacobs last prints end at a tire track. The prints "seem" to indicate (pressure releases) that he stepped up into "something". Others here have tested this and verified the type pressure release, that said we have two options A) He stepped up into "something" or the perp was a print expert and faked the prints using Jacobs sneakers.

2. The print/tire track field is so contaminated, I am not sure you can say 100% that all tire tracks are accounted for. Given that SCSD will not share the print field photographs, I cannot give an accurate read of both the tire tracks and the shoe prints. The print field was also contaminated by a Police car, horse shoe prints, ATV tire tracks and searcher foot prints.

In my mind with my background, until I am presented with evidence one way or the other, it is 50-50 if a vehicle was involved. To this point, there were quite a few ATV's used in the search. Did anyone check to see if all the ATV prints matched the LE ATV's? Was there an ATV on DR's farm? Were there ATV tire pushdowns in the grass in the fields?

 

[HEY YOU!]

With regard to a vehicle:

1. Jacobs last prints end at a tire track. The prints "seem" to indicate (pressure releases) that he stepped up into "something". Others here have tested this and verified the type pressure release, that said we have two options A) He stepped up into "something" or the perp was a print expert and faked the prints using Jacobs sneakers.

2. The print/tire track field is so contaminated, I am not sure you can say 100% that all tire tracks are accounted for. Given that SCSD will not share the print field photographs, I cannot give an accurate read of both the tire tracks and the shoe prints. The print field was also contaminated by a Police car, horse shoe prints, ATV tire tracks and searcher foot prints.

In my mind with my background, until I am presented with evidence one way or the other, it is 50-50 if a vehicle was involved. To this point, there were quite a few ATV's used in the search. Did anyone check to see if all the ATV prints matched the LE ATV's? Was there an ATV on DR's farm? Were there ATV tire pushdowns in the grass in the fields?

Then how did the car know where to go? You are saying a complete random perp arrived at the DR driveway and parked his car there fully comfortable that nobody would be walking or driving up or down that driveway? Not buying that. This person in the car had to know that the boys were coming back that way. How would he know that unless he was a local or saw them headed out to begin with? To see the boys at Tom Thumb does not indicate the direction they were headed. And no car passed the boys so explain how a car got on DR driveway and knew boys would be passing?

 

[human]

Why does the reenactment on the Hunt matter as to accuracy?

Well, let's see.

For how many years did everyone think a vehicle was used until Kevin came forward. Oh oh. That caused a few problems, didn't it.

And now if the perception is that Paynesville, Jared and Jacob are linked, then someone who has critical info may feel it isn't because it cannot fit into the Paynesville, Jared, Jacob trinity.

Big problem. Huge

 

[human]

Then how did the car know where to go? You are saying a complete random perp arrived at the DR driveway and parked his car there fully comfortable that nobody would be walking or driving up or down that driveway? Not buying that. This person in the car had to know that the boys were coming back that way. How would he know that unless he was a local or saw them headed out to begin with? To see the boys at Tom Thumb does not indicate the direction they were headed. And no car passed the boys so explain how a car got on DR driveway and knew boys would be passing?

The absolute desolation of the area has to be seen and experienced, although it is impossible now because so many homes have been built.

This was not your average neighborhood of homes. Very very isolated.

 

[HEY YOU!]

The absolute desolation of the area has to be seen and experienced, although it is impossible now because so many homes have been built.

This was not your average neighborhood of homes. Very very isolated.

EXACTLY! Back in 1989 there was hardly anybody there. I can't wait to hear how everybody's theory of who else did it and how. Seriously, the road is so narrow you can't park a car on it or on the side due to the ditch. And all directions have been ruled out as to where a car would be parked. And everyone is saying DR driveway, who the heck is going to risk a homeowner coming into or out of the driveway by foot or car? What if there was a dog that barked? Oh, that's right there was a dog on the property that didn't bark at the time of abduction.

And it's literally a dead end neighborhood. One way in and out...

 

[ThePhantom]

I think he's still in prison. He was sentenced to death. I don't know if he's been questioned -- I hope so if someone thought he resembled the perp.

 

[Shay]

I think he's still in prison. He was sentenced to death. I don't know if he's been questioned -- I hope so if someone thought he resembled the perp.

Alfonso Rodriguez

http://www.nndb.com/people/314/000030224/

ETA: AR was in prison at the time of Jacob's disappearance.

http://murderpedia.org/male.R/r/rodriguez-alfonso.htm

 

[HEY YOU!]

Why does the reenactment on the Hunt matter as to accuracy?

Well, let's see.

For how many years did everyone think a vehicle was used until Kevin came forward. Oh oh. That caused a few problems, didn't it.

And now if the perception is that Paynesville, Jared and Jacob are linked, then someone who has critical info may feel it isn't because it cannot fit into the Paynesville, Jared, Jacob trinity.

Big problem. Huge

Agreed, LE made the mistake initially by putting Jared's sketch as one to look for in Jacob's abduction. They had no facial ID from boys and no reason to connect the 2. This perp wore a mask, did not use a car and did not return the victim. The Hunt put out very confusing info and very few facts regarding Jacob. It did succeed in reminding me that the Wetterlings, parents and siblings of Jacob must drive by the site of the abduction every time they go to or from their home on Kiwi....And of course totally eliminated the last place a car could have been hiding which was directly across for DR driveway where boys were told to run 'into the woods'

 

[Trackergd]

Then how did the car know where to go? You are saying a complete random perp arrived at the DR driveway and parked his car there fully comfortable that nobody would be walking or driving up or down that driveway? Not buying that. This person in the car had to know that the boys were coming back that way. How would he know that unless he was a local or saw them headed out to begin with? To see the boys at Tom Thumb does not indicate the direction they were headed. And no car passed the boys so explain how a car got on DR driveway and knew boys would be passing?

I am not saying anything. I let the data (or prints in this case) drive the results. When it comes to tracks, I work only from the information in them, including if they were faked (yes you can tell when you look at them in person). I would rather learn the details and assumptions of a case after I have looked at the prints and extracted the story they tell.

I did attempt to get Sterns County to share the print photographs with me and I did offer them evidence that I have done this for the FBI, PSP and Secret Service on other cases and offered a non-disclosure agreement if required. They declined to share.

 

[Sasquatch321]

When DR was asked what he said to the 911 operator he did not mention a car, when asked what happened when he approached cops that night he told cops he would search his own outbuildings...#1 Why search outbuildings if there was a strange car zipping around with small child in passenger seat? #2 No mention of strange car. Check the interviews, these are DR's own words.

This is where we are at. If he did not reveal a vehicle until investigators put him in the office, then he should at least now, be thrown behind bars as an accomplice to the crime.