MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #11

[human]

W

Outstanding question...

http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/default.aspx

So what is the verdict? In or out?

 

[ELOCsoul]

I'm not sure he did mention them all right away. He talked about seeing a small dark car with headlights close together (with a child or woman in the passenger seat) the next day at the school evidently - but not to the 911 operator or officers that night. I don't think he brought up the other car racing like mad up his driveway in the afternoon until Kevin came forward in 2003-04 and said those tracks in the driveway had been his. And even then, he may have only told LE at that time, and not announced it publicly. Because for years he was saying he "saw things" that day, but wouldn't say what they were because it might tip off the abductor. In an article in the newsleader (I believe it was) he did say something about the things he saw being "cars and people he witnessed."

DR was quoted in the St. Joseph Newsleader that what he saw that night, the next day coalesced in his mind as a way to solve the crime.

 

[human]

PROSPECT THEORY
V(x,p) = v(x)w(p)
Prospect theory’s central formula lays out how we go with our gut when determining the value (V) of a possible outcome (x) with a given probability (p).

Using Prospect theory and the probability of ZERO that Hart abducted Jacob (because he was a Sandusky-type pedophile, not a sadist, who bribed kids and never abducted them), the outcome of Hart being arrested for being Jacob’s abductor is ZERO.

 

[Baddux]

PROSPECT THEORY
V(x,p) = v(x)w(p)
Prospect theory’s central formula lays out how we go with our gut when determining the value (V) of a possible outcome (x) with a given probability (p).

Using Prospect theory and the probability of ZERO that Hart abducted Jacob (because he was a Sandusky-type pedophile, not a sadist, who bribed kids and never abducted them), the outcome of Hart being arrested for being Jacob’s abductor is ZERO.

This is an interesting way to break down a series of suspects. Have you done the workup on all named suspects?

Since some have been unequivocally ruled out, it might help to see if the formula accurately predicted their non-involvement.

I would help do some if you were interested in analyzing those named in the "Case Facts" thread.

 

[human]

S

This is an interesting way to break down a series of suspects. Have you done the workup on all named suspects?

Since some have been unequivocally ruled out, it might help to see if the formula accurately predicted their non-involvement.

I would help do some if you were interested in analyzing those named in the "Case Facts" thread.

No. There are too many we cannot identify on here because they have not been named with these crimes- Jared or Jacob

 

[Diaktoros]

Very good discussion points...did DAH only bribe or manipulate his victims? Was he a sadist, or not? Do we know for sure if Jacob's perpetrator was a sadist?

Hart challenges the merits of his commitment as a sexual psychopathic personality. The state must prove the need for commitment with clear and convincing evidence. Minn. Stat. § 253B.18, subd. 1 (1994). Factual findings will not be reversed unless clearly erroneous. In re Kunshier, 521 N.W.2d 880, 884 (Minn. App. 1994). Whether the record supports the district court's conclusion that a person requires commitment is a question of law, which this court reviews de novo. In re Linehan, 518 N.W.2d 609, 613 (Minn. 1994).

The sexual psychopathic personality commitment statute, as interpreted by the supreme court, requires

(a) a "habitual course of misconduct in sexual matters" and (b) "an utter lack of power to control * * * sexual impulses" so that (c) it is likely the person will "attack or otherwise inflict injury, loss, pain or other evil on the objects of their uncontrolled and uncontrollable desire."

Id. 613 (quoting Minnesota ex rel. Pearson v. Probate Court of Ramsey County, 309 U.S. 270, 274, 60 S. Ct. 523, 526, 84 L. Ed. 744 (1940)). We conclude that sufficient evidence supported all three elements.

First, a habitual course of sexual misconduct is evident in Hart's convictions for six counts of criminal sexual conduct and the numerous other incidents of sexual misconduct. See id., 518 N.W.2d at 613 (finding that appellant's criminal history demonstrates habitual course of misconduct).

Second, the district court determined that Hart exhibited an utter lack of control. A trial court must consider several factors to determine whether an individual utterly lacks the power to control his sexual impulses: the nature and frequency of the assaults, the degree of violence, the relationship between the offender and the victims, the offender's attitude, the offender's medical and family history, and the offender's medical evaluation. Blodgett, 510 N.W.2d at 915.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Does anyone have answer as to if DAH was incarcerated on October 22, 1889?

 

[human]

But where was DAH?

Was he incarcerated?

Going on and on about him makes no sense when we do not even know if he was out of incarceration

 

[Sasquatch321]

Why choose an upstanding citizen such as DR to put under the public light and be torn to pieces like a rag doll, over DAH?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain, cruelty, degradation, humiliation, or watching such behaviors inflicted on others.

 

[Diaktoros]

More outstanding questions...was he incarcerated at the time? Why would we quickly dismiss DAH because we can't confirm or deny whether he was in prison at the time? Is there a way to find out? Is it important? Did he have a propensity for violence or physical force?

Hart argues that he is a nonviolent pedophile, unlikely to inflict serious physical or mental harm. His argument ignores his frequent use of physical force and coercion to accomplish his countless sexual assaults against children.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Why couldn't he let him go?

 

[bessie]

Very good discussion points...did DAH only bribe or manipulate his victims? Was he a sadist, or not? Do we know for sure if Jacob's perpetrator was a sadist?

Hart challenges the merits of his commitment as a sexual psychopathic personality. The state must prove the need for commitment with clear and convincing evidence. Minn. Stat. § 253B.18, subd. 1 (1994). Factual findings will not be reversed unless clearly erroneous. In re Kunshier, 521 N.W.2d 880, 884 (Minn. App. 1994). Whether the record supports the district court's conclusion that a person requires commitment is a question of law, which this court reviews de novo. In re Linehan, 518 N.W.2d 609, 613 (Minn. 1994).

The sexual psychopathic personality commitment statute, as interpreted by the supreme court, requires

(a) a "habitual course of misconduct in sexual matters" and (b) "an utter lack of power to control * * * sexual impulses" so that (c) it is likely the person will "attack or otherwise inflict injury, loss, pain or other evil on the objects of their uncontrolled and uncontrollable desire."

Id. 613 (quoting Minnesota ex rel. Pearson v. Probate Court of Ramsey County, 309 U.S. 270, 274, 60 S. Ct. 523, 526, 84 L. Ed. 744 (1940)). We conclude that sufficient evidence supported all three elements.

First, a habitual course of sexual misconduct is evident in Hart's convictions for six counts of criminal sexual conduct and the numerous other incidents of sexual misconduct. See id., 518 N.W.2d at 613 (finding that appellant's criminal history demonstrates habitual course of misconduct).

Second, the district court determined that Hart exhibited an utter lack of control. A trial court must consider several factors to determine whether an individual utterly lacks the power to control his sexual impulses: the nature and frequency of the assaults, the degree of violence, the relationship between the offender and the victims, the offender's attitude, the offender's medical and family history, and the offender's medical evaluation. Blodgett, 510 N.W.2d at 915.

Welcome to Websleuths, Diaktoros. Do you have a link for the quote?

Thank you.

 

[Diaktoros]

Thank you.

Absolutely, I'll repost the link for everyone's reference.

http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19960220_0003.mn.htm/qx

 

[ELOCsoul]

His alibi.

 

[Diaktoros]

Please do elaborate.

 

[cGorg]

"When trying to solve a complex puzzle, it is helpful to group similar pieces together before attempting to combine them into a larger pattern."

http://www.yellodyno.com/pdf/OJJDP_Child_Molesters_Who_Abduct%20Children.pdf

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samip...1990PPress.jpg

http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19960220_0003.mn.htm/qx

What further research can we uncover on this man to qualify, or disqualify?

Simply put: the incarceration date of DAH.

 

[Trino]

Below is the Websleuths memo about posting names of sex offenders. It would appear if we found names of sex offenders living at the half-way house near where J disappeared, we could, indeed, post the info.

It is illegal to use the sex offender registry information to harass anyone. We would never condone that at Websleuths. However, it is okay if, when a child goes missing or is harmed, we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. Never even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting here about a sex offender should always be within the law.

 

[nmogren]

Below is the Websleuths memo about posting names of sex offenders. It would appear if we found names of sex offenders living at the half-way house near where J disappeared, we could, indeed, post the info.

It is illegal to use the sex offender registry information to harass anyone. We would never condone that at Websleuths. However, it is okay if, when a child goes missing or is harmed, we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. Never even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting here about a sex offender should always be within the law.

We don't know the names of the offenders living there because there wasn't a sex offender registry yet in MN. Patty Wetterling changed the laws after her son went missing because she had NO IDEA there were offenders all over her town. How can we break the law by trying to figure out who else was living in town at the time before the law existed in trying to find the boy who is THE REASON the law exists?!?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[human]

The first task would be to find out where these halfway houses were.

I have zero idea of where any halfway houses are by the city where I live. I know of the sleazy hotel where a lot of them live, but there are no services there.


I know of a very large rehab center where released criiminals live or come to for their checks of being drug and alcohol free. That place would be a halfway house. It is very official looking and marked with a big sign. There are services there such as therapy and job help. Electronic bracelet monitoring. Was that aroud back then? Would these offenders be on bracelets?

The names of the Level Three are published, but it appears they move to apartments in the poor part of town. I do not think they are half way houses .

The Level I and II are not published so who knows where they would go.

I would think that a place to go would be to the records of building permits. There should be records of requests for housing of multiple people, I would think. I would think that there would have to be a conditional use petition on file. That involves letting the neighbors know of a use so they have a say in restricting hours, traffic, etc.

I wonder what zoning laws would have allowed that use back then? Where would such housing be allowed?

And my biggest question would be , "What neighborhood would allow it? ". I would think the neighbors would be up in arms.

If anyone can, the place to start asking would be the city planning and zoning department.

Find out what rules were in place then.

Where are the permits? Are they filed by address? Big problem there because no one knows the address.

Perhaps there are people there who have been around long enough to know the history of some structures. It is a small town, so there must be those that are in the know and interest of zoning issues