MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[Sasquatch321]

And if this is a tire starting and stopping, then this can't be Kevin's vehicle. He stated to Joy that he drove all the way up to the farm house area and turned around up there. So this would have to be the perp's vehicle

If we are seeing a stop and go in that picture then I may no longer be buying into kevins story.

 

[human]

Maybe because it simply just isn't there. He's a middle aged single man who lives with his elderly parents on a farm. He's been a teacher since the 1970's. He has a clean record as a teacher. Nothing came from the digs on his property. Maybe it's time to focus energy on other people.

LE is saving things from the search in the home as well as from the dig.

There is always something there. Think of your ownselves.

No one is perfect. No one is liked by everyone.

I guess the only things I see are in cases on here, LE knows a tremendous amount, people who know things do not share about important things in criminal cases, and things people may know may be kept quiet because of family or civic connections, or people do not know they have information that is critical, such as Kevin and everyone around him that fateful evening.

 

[human]

The lack of a large print field just tells me the perp likely covered or wiped out his tracks. Maybe he shuffled up the driveway carrying Jacob a short way until he walked on the grass. There should be DR prints there as he lived there. Where are all of the footprints? Who had access to that driveway between 3am and 6am when cops were not on scene? Who essentially drove and walked through the crime scene the very next morning, going so far as to lift the yellow crime scene tape and walk on the scene? Where are DR footprints from earlier when he walked down the driveway and back up after getting his mail?

Where is the documentation that officers were not left at the scene?

 

[HEY YOU!]

Human-I read that somewhere on Websleuths. They supposedly left the scene at 3 am and came back in the morning 6 am. Found this out when sleuthing timeline. Anyone remember where?

I see that Jacob's last footprint lines up with the freshest, most identifiable tire track. Isn't that Kevin's tire track? Isn't that why they ruled out a vehicle once Kevin came forward because that tire track belonged to him and he had an alibi?

Tracker said at one point that he couldn't rule out the print being planted. It seems rather convenient that Jacob's last (only?) footprint lines up against a tire track that was made AFTER he was abducted. Can anyone confirm any other Jacob footprint?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I have just connected two footprints to Jacobs shoe in this picture, and also a possible perp footprint indicated by the red rectangle-

 

[Trackergd]

I have just connected two footprints to Jacobs shoe in this picture, and also a possible perp footprint indicated by the red rectangle-

View attachment 65988

Possibly, but it is so pixilated it could be anything. To confirm one way or the other, you would need much better quality close up shots. Does not explain why there are no prints before "the last prints" that would be within Jacobs stride length. The upper left black box object would have required a turning step to the left and would have caused more mounding on the right side of "the last print".



I have never totally bought Kevin's story.

 

[Trackergd]

Human-I read that somewhere on Websleuths. They supposedly left the scene at 3 am and came back in the morning 6 am. Found this out when sleuthing timeline. Anyone remember where?

I see that Jacob's last footprint lines up with the freshest, most identifiable tire track. Isn't that Kevin's tire track? Isn't that why they ruled out a vehicle once Kevin came forward because that tire track belonged to him and he had an alibi?

Tracker said at one point that he couldn't rule out the print being planted. It seems rather convenient that Jacob's last (only?) footprint lines up against a tire track that was made AFTER he was abducted. Can anyone confirm any other Jacob footprint?

RBBM. Now that I have much clearer shots of the last prints, It is my opinion they were not planted. If planted they would have been dead flat with no mounding on the edges, and there would have been a clear left print next to the right.

 

[cGorg]

I looked at the pictures and I believe you have East and West wrong. If you look closely at the prints, you'll see shadows in them, always toward the top and toward the left side. The driveway runs east and west, which means that the photographer was standing north of the the prints when they took these photos, and Jacob's footprints indicate he was looking south.

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snipped by me
I agree with that analysis. The other picture of the 3 plaster moulds IMHO is a picture taken from the west looking east.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Possibly, but it is so pixilated it could be anything. To confirm one way or the other, you would need much better quality close up shots. Does not explain why there are no prints before "the last prints" that would be within Jacobs stride length. The upper left black box object would have required a turning step to the left and would have caused more mounding on the right side of "the last print".



I have never totally bought Kevin's story.

I think the guy was confessing to the US Marshall when he was drunk, cleared up his mind afterwards and hasn't yet told the full story. With 2 prints by Jacob instead of 1, the planted theory loses some ground.

 

[Ifollowthis]

I think the guy was confessing to the US Marshall when he was drunk, cleared up his mind afterwards and hasn't yet told the full story. With 2 prints by Jacob instead of 1, the planted theory loses some ground.

Does anyone know for sure if the US Marshall was Al Garber?

 

[Fukiyama]

If we are seeing a stop and go in that picture then I may no longer be buying into kevins story.

It would be interesting to know where exactly Kevin stopped along the driveway and discussed with his girlfriend what they should do with the bikes they claimed to have seen. I am remembering right that Kevin said he pulled into the driveway, drove all the way back to the farmstead and then back out, and as he was coming out facing west, he and girlfriend saw bikes across the way and stopped to discuss them?

 

[Sasquatch321]

It would be interesting to know where exactly Kevin stopped along the driveway and discussed with his girlfriend what they should do with the bikes they claimed to have seen. I am remembering right that Kevin said he pulled into the driveway, drove all the way back to the farmstead and then back out, and as he was coming out facing west, he and girlfriend saw bikes across the way and stopped to discuss them?

I think what else is just peculiar is that they heard about this on a scanner and in the dark went directly to the site which is up over a couple hills ending in a cul de sac with a dead end. His brother who is a firefighter and also took off in his truck never located the site like Kevin.

 

[Dave K]

I think what else is just peculiar is that they heard about this on a scanner and in the dark went directly to the site which is up over a couple hills ending in a cul de sac with a dead end. His brother who is a firefighter and also took off in his truck never located the site like Kevin.

That's also just another aspect of what I call the whole "Kevin" scenario, that just doesn't really seem to fall into place, isn't it. I made a couple or few posts a while back trying to spell out some of the reasons why, although, it's hard to really spell out, but, whenever I read, hear, think about "Kevin's" story, it just makes me feel like, somehow or another it doesn't seem to sound right; for a combination of reasons. Again, hard to spell out, but, feels out-of-place somehow.

 

[cGorg]

Yeh, makes you wonder....as per Joy's Blog, "Kevin's Story":

Kevin and his girlfriend leave the Tom Thumb and happen to notice a St. Joseph cop car sitting at Cotton’s dentist office on the corner (no lights on, engine off). They pull up and see that it’s the new guy… the one they don’t know. They tell him about the bikes they found down by Rassiers’ farm, but the cop just tells them, “Yeah, we already know all about that.” He doesn’t bother taking down their names, asking them any further questions… nothing. It’s like they’re bothering him or wasting his time, so they just decide to go back home to Kevin’s place. (Kevin had his own place behind Kay’s Kitchen.)

They go to bed and still have no idea a child has been abducted.

Sometime around 1am, Kevin and his girlfriend are awakened by a phone call. It’s the brother asking them where they’d gone after he and his wife left them earlier in the evening. Kevin tells him they went down 16th Avenue and turned around in Rassiers’ driveway.

The brother is a volunteer firefighter and has been manning the fire station all night while the rest of the crew is helping with the search. This is the first Kevin and his girlfriend have heard about Jacob’s abduction. The brother also tells them there are FBI agents there making plaster casts of the tire tracks they found in the driveway.

So according to this testimony....LE was making plaster casts in the nighttime(how would the brother know this?)....and I would surmise that the pictures of the casts are from the morning of 10-23-1989....which means the picture we've discussed is a morning picture and thus taken from the west looking east. Additionally I would like to know Trackergd's thoughts on the picture of Steve Mund examining footprints....featured in the blog.

 

[cGorg]

My guess is that Steve Mund is making the first(?) plaster cast of Jacob's footprint....but how does this explain the 'brother's' phone call at 1 a.m. telling Kevin that the FBI is making plaster casts of the tire tracks?

 

[Dave K]

Yeh, makes you wonder....as per Joy's Blog, "Kevin's Story":

Kevin and his girlfriend leave the Tom Thumb and happen to notice a St. Joseph cop car sitting at Cotton’s dentist office on the corner (no lights on, engine off). They pull up and see that it’s the new guy… the one they don’t know. They tell him about the bikes they found down by Rassiers’ farm, but the cop just tells them, “Yeah, we already know all about that.” He doesn’t bother taking down their names, asking them any further questions… nothing. It’s like they’re bothering him or wasting his time, so they just decide to go back home to Kevin’s place. (Kevin had his own place behind Kay’s Kitchen.)

They go to bed and still have no idea a child has been abducted.

Sometime around 1am, Kevin and his girlfriend are awakened by a phone call. It’s the brother asking them where they’d gone after he and his wife left them earlier in the evening. Kevin tells him they went down 16th Avenue and turned around in Rassiers’ driveway.

The brother is a volunteer firefighter and has been manning the fire station all night while the rest of the crew is helping with the search. This is the first Kevin and his girlfriend have heard about Jacob’s abduction. The brother also tells them there are FBI agents there making plaster casts of the tire tracks they found in the driveway.

So according to this testimony....LE was making plaster casts in the nighttime(how would the brother know this?)....and I would surmise that the pictures of the casts are from the morning of 10-23-1989....which means the picture we've discussed is a morning picture and thus taken from the west looking east. Additionally I would like to know Trackergd's thoughts on the picture of Steve Mund examining footprints....featured in the blog.

It's odd for a number of reasons, isn't it. The only thing I can think of as far as ("How would the brother know this?") would be that, according to the story, he was a volunteer fireman and so, with basically all 'first responders' they had available, that included the other volunteer firefighters joining in the search, he was left to man the station, so, he'd heard from some of the other firefighters that were out on the search about the FBI being there and making casts, etc. That's the only thing I could think of. What's unbelievable about that to me, is that if his GF's brother had told him that night about the FBI checking the driveway for prints, that neither Kevin or the GF's brother considered it an issue to notify the authorities. Can't figure that for anything. I've also had to wonder, whether it was actually the story that they were making the plaster casts at night, or, just that it was determined at night that they would make them the next day in the morning, and Kevin just misinterpreted or misreported.

 

[cGorg]

I think it's great that the footprint is further being examined, but where does this fit into the investigation, except to indicate DR was probably not involved and that JW was taken from the area? How would the tracks find JW?

Where does it fit into the investigation? It's the only physical evidence available. And IMO it doesn't exonerate or implicate DR. The footprints + tracks are there...however messed up they may be....but they lead somewhere.

 

[cGorg]

It's odd for a number of reasons, isn't it. The only thing I can think of as far as ("How would the brother know this?") would be that, according to the story, he was a volunteer fireman and so, with basically all 'first responders' they had available, that included the other volunteer firefighters joining in the search, he was left to man the station, so, he'd heard from some of the other firefighters that were out on the search about the FBI being there and making casts, etc. That's the only thing I could think of. What's unbelievable about that to me, is that if his GF's brother had told him that night about the FBI checking the driveway for prints, that neither Kevin or the GF's brother considered it an issue to notify the authorities. Can't figure that for anything. I've also had to wonder, whether it was actually the story that they were making the plaster casts at night, or, just that it was determined at night that they would make them the next day in the morning, and Kevin just misinterpreted or misreported.

Dave K....very nice explanation....but the scenario stinks nonetheless IMO. As a first responder, the brother(if he was privy to LE info) had to know this was critical information. By the very fact of him calling Kevin at 1 a.m. leads me to believe he knew something was up...not necessarily that Kevin did anything but that Kevin may have happened upon a crime scene. I don't know what to think of it...I've already posted my thoughts on this....innocently enough it could mean that Kevin and his girlfriend's brother were scared into not talking by the size + publicity of the case-and the case did indeed explode immediately-but their silence...doesn't sit well with me. But my point is...how does this relate to the track/footprint evidence we've been discussing? Is that 'fresh track' actually Kevin's?

 

[Dave K]

Dave K....very nice explanation....but the scenario stinks nonetheless IMO. As a first responder, the brother(if he was privy to LE info) had to know this was critical information. By the very fact of him calling Kevin at 1 a.m. leads me to believe he knew something was up...not necessarily that Kevin did anything but that Kevin may have happened upon a crime scene. I don't know what to think of it...I've already posted my thoughts on this....innocently enough it could mean that Kevin and his girlfriend's brother were scared into not talking by the size + publicity of the case-and the case did indeed explode immediately-but their silence...doesn't sit well with me. But my point is...how does this relate to the track/footprint evidence we've been discussing? Is that 'fresh track' actually Kevin's?

To start, I'm fully with you on the part where "it stinks" and "doesn't sit well" with you. Completely, that's pretty much the same as I've been saying. If anything in the way I worded it, sounds different than that, it's not intended to. In the story itself, it states that "It’s the brother asking them where they’d gone after he and his wife left them earlier in the evening. Kevin tells him they went down 16th Avenue and turned around in Rassiers’ driveway." and that "This is the first Kevin and his girlfriend have heard about Jacob’s abduction. The brother also tells them there are FBI agents there making plaster casts of the tire tracks they found in the driveway." So, the brother knew about the abduction and he told Kevin at that time, (1:am); he, the brother, also knew that Kevin told him that he had driven through Rassier's driveway. That's what I'm saying is so bothersome about it. Then, between the two of them, they never bothered to report it. I can't get it. As to how does this relate to 'track' evidence. I think we have to go somewhat further, to whatever extent we can, "we" including Tracker, Sasquatch and anyone else here who's interested in following. But, I'm not certain exactly how to say it, but, it never made sense to me for several reasons, that because Kevin came out with this "information" in 2003, that, that would lead to a conclusion that 'No Vehicle' had been used in the abduction. It would only mean that Kevin's vehicle was driven over the driveway afterwards, if in fact that's what happened. Personally, for several reasons, (among other things is Trackers declaration that "The crime scene is a nightmare, etc..." I believe that it's reasonable (for us) to conclude that, we can't really take anything for granted as far as what we're left to believe from what LE tells us about the crime scene, driveway information. I hope that makes sense. I have a little more to add to the 'crime scene nightmare' scenario. In fact, a part of my wanting to discuss what I'm trying to document is to show that the crime scene, as you, I and others have said, was not preserved and processed appropriately. So, again, I don't think that we can count on what LE says as fact. Again, I hope that makes sense.

 

[cGorg]

To start, I'm fully with you on the part where "it stinks" and "doesn't sit well" with you. Completely, that's pretty much the same as I've been saying. If anything in the way I worded it, sounds different than that, it's not intended to. In the story itself, it states that "It’s the brother asking them where they’d gone after he and his wife left them earlier in the evening. Kevin tells him they went down 16th Avenue and turned around in Rassiers’ driveway." and that "This is the first Kevin and his girlfriend have heard about Jacob’s abduction. The brother also tells them there are FBI agents there making plaster casts of the tire tracks they found in the driveway." So, the brother knew about the abduction and he told Kevin at that time, (1:am); he, the brother, also knew that Kevin told him that he had driven through Rassier's driveway. That's what I'm saying is so bothersome about it. Then, between the two of them, they never bothered to report it. I can't get it. As to how does this relate to 'track' evidence. I think we have to go somewhat further, to whatever extent we can, "we" including Tracker, Sasquatch and anyone else here who's interested in following. But, I'm not certain exactly how to say it, but, it never made sense to me for several reasons, that because Kevin came out with this "information" in 2003, that, that would lead to a conclusion that 'No Vehicle' had been used in the abduction. It would only mean that Kevin's vehicle was driven over the driveway afterwards, if in fact that's what happened. Personally, for several reasons, (among other things is Trackers declaration that "The crime scene is a nightmare, etc..." I believe that it's reasonable (for us) to conclude that, we can't really take anything for granted as far as what we're left to believe from what LE tells us about the crime scene, driveway information. I hope that makes sense. I have a little more to add to the 'crime scene nightmare' scenario. In fact, a part of my wanting to discuss what I'm trying to document is to show that the crime scene, as you, I and others have said, was not preserved and processed appropriately. So, again, I don't think that we can count on what LE says as fact. Again, I hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense and again, very well stated. I, like you, am not trying to implicate anybody. But I think it is important to dissect the information we have available to us to the nth degree....what else can we do? Hopefully this dissection process will eventually lead to something substantial. IMHO the footprints + tire tracks hold something of value....as well as any testimonial evidence available....combined, they offer a powerful tool in arriving at the truth.