MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[human]

I am not talking about DR's friend.

I am asking for info about DR that can be verified

 

[Dave K]

It is more than likely true that the monks were not looked at during that time. After all, the abbot was keeping the abbey's secrets just between him and the other church leaders. It wasn't until victims gradually came forward that the abbot was forced into acknowledging publicly the criminal actions of the monks -- only, in the church, these actions aren't treated as though they are crimes. I guess they supposed it was the victims' responsibility to forgive and forget.

ThePhantom

I still don't understand why Stearn's county Sheriff believes that criminal acts by monks upon children is "out of our jurisdiction."

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/257...cused-of-abuse

ThePhantom

Lots of conflict of interest involved. I, too, don't understand how it works where some priests are prosecuted in certain locations and others are not. The only reason I bring up St. John's is to say I'm frustrated it was never investigated so that it could be summarily ruled out in Jacob's case. Would the FBI have been allowed to access the secret files I wonder?

JBrown324320

Not EVERYONE played hockey. Overstatement. Many people in the area did.
The abduction could have been done by a priest as indicated by the rumors that indicate "Jacob was a favorite at the Abbey" . I am not sure if we can ever find out if a priest did it since so many people in power in the area including priests, attys, the sheriff, church members are covering for them and refuse to investigate them as suspects.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/unholy-act

Given the circumstances of the conversation and the concern, rightfully so, about LE dealing with the Catholic Church, concerning crimes of sexual abuse; the following story is very interesting and illustrative. Coincidentally, I saw it on ID last night, so, I taped it and took notes. I'd seen it before.

Case if Irene Garza, McAllen, TX, 1960; on 48 Hrs on ID; remember, this was in 1960, well before the phenomenon of pedophile priests was well known.

One of the women telling the story is some form of relative of Irene Garza, described in the show as 'a part of Irene Garza's extended family' and also, her father was at the time of the homicide, a deputy sheriff in the county, and was involved in the investigation. Another woman telling the story on the show is Pamela Colloff of Texas Monthly magazine, who wrote the article at the link.

The women states, her father was deputy sheriff at the time, investigating the case; early on the main suspect was the priest at the local Sacred Heart Catholic Church. Irene had been known to have gone to confession on the night before Easter; she had been seen there and was never seen leaving. She had been sexually assaulted, physically assaulted and died of suffocation; she was found 5 days later in a canal. Autopsy showed that apparently she had been raped, while in a coma.

He, the priest had attacked another woman 23 days before, at another Sacred Heart Church in a neighboring town, he was indicted for attempted rape and charged a year later, resulting in a hung jury; after which, rather than chancing another trial, he pled 'No Contest' to a lesser charge of 'Aggravated Assault' and was fined.

Her father, the deputy, told her mother, his wife, that he already knew who did it, and that he approached his superior and asked "Why is nothing being done?" and he was told to "Just step away from the case; just step away, let us take care of it" - following this he was ordered to stop investigating the case, and to turn over his records on the case.

The show documents a lot of evidence which points toward the suspect.

After this, the case stopped cold and was not investigated for decades. The same woman said that she knew the name of the main suspect and states that "A lot of people went out of their way to keep the identity of this person secret."

The priest ended up leaving McAllen, and was assigned to various monasteries.

This was in 1960, the case has never been solved; the suspect is still alive.

The show repeats on ID on Dec 20 at 9:am ET; check your local listings, record it if you can.

You really have to watch the show, to get an idea of how profound this is.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

For some reason people want to go off on some other ideas.

Why are we not researching DR more? A person who has been identified by LE.

Why is that not of tremendous interest?

No stories out there about him? I have heard some. No way to document.

Anyone have any info aside from the sex offender who was his FB friend?

If you want to discuss DR, go ahead. But we have gone 'round and 'round DR over and over. There is no reason that we cannot discuss other ideas as well. Just ignore what you don't like and let others discuss other ideas, theories, etc. freely (within the WS rules, obviously).

 

[Trino]

IMO, Jacob and his friends rode their bikes all over this small safe town. When his missing poster first came out, my husband recognized him as one of the kids who used to come to the park in St. Joe and watch the local RC flying club fly their planes. (The group had permission to fly there in the late 80's.) Hubby said all these young boys on bikes were constantly talking with the club members and asking for a chance to fly their planes. So these kids were not as closely supervised as some seem to think. It was a small town and before Jacob was taken, parents felt very safe letting their kids ride all over.

I don't think it's a stretch that the boys would have biked to St. John's, there are quiet back roads that go there, in addition to the highway. There's a huge lake for swimming, a picnic area, and that intriguing path that winds through the woods around the lake out to the Stella Maris chapel.
http://www.csbsju.edu/sju-archives/s...llamarischapel

And, once they got to St. John's, then what? There's no verification of this, and even if they did so, there's no info they were involved with anyone there.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Is DR just a guy who sat behind a window and observed things? Why did LE bring him to be a POI then 21 years later? It almost costed him his career, humiliates the family, and has kept his belongings ever since.

 

[chaplain1]

The Wetterlings owned rental property for SJU/CSB students. Or, Jerry managed them. My brother graduated in the early nineties and his friends lived in a Wetterling property.

 

[chaplain1]

Is DR just a guy who sat behind a window and observed things? Why did LE bring him to be a POI then 21 years later? It almost costed him his career, humiliates the family, and has kept his belongings ever since.

I don't think DR can rationally speak about the events of that night. Smokey barks and disturbs his record inventory in the late afternoon, but having a major crime scene in the middle of the night doesn't seem to bother him. I have spoken to a lot of people that think he falls on the autism spectrum, like aspergers, and that is why he is so compartmentalized. They also suggested DR is very old-school farmer asexual--like he would have no desire for men, women or child.

I wish Joy's research identified these attacks in Paynesville with case numbers.

 

[nmogren]

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/unholy-act

Given the circumstances of the conversation and the concern, rightfully so, about LE dealing with the Catholic Church, concerning crimes of sexual abuse; the following story is very interesting and illustrative. Coincidentally, I saw it on ID last night, so, I taped it and took notes. I'd seen it before.

Case if Irene Garza, McAllen, TX, 1960; on 48 Hrs on ID; remember, this was in 1960, well before the phenomenon of pedophile priests was well known.

One of the women telling the story is some form of relative of Irene Garza, described in the show as 'a part of Irene Garza's extended family' and also, her father was at the time of the homicide, a deputy sheriff in the county, and was involved in the investigation. Another woman telling the story on the show is Pamela Colloff of Texas Monthly magazine, who wrote the article at the link.

The women states, her father was deputy sheriff at the time, investigating the case; early on the main suspect was the priest at the local Sacred Heart Catholic Church. Irene had been known to have gone to confession on the night before Easter; she had been seen there and was never seen leaving. She had been sexually assaulted, physically assaulted and died of suffocation; she was found 5 days later in a canal. Autopsy showed that apparently she had been raped, while in a coma.

He, the priest had attacked another woman 23 days before, at another Sacred Heart Church in a neighboring town, he was indicted for attempted rape and charged a year later, resulting in a hung jury; after which, rather than chancing another trial, he pled 'No Contest' to a lesser charge of 'Aggravated Assault' and was fined.

Her father, the deputy, told her mother, his wife, that he already knew who did it, and that he approached his superior and asked "Why is nothing being done?" and he was told to "Just step away from the case; just step away, let us take care of it" - following this he was ordered to stop investigating the case, and to turn over his records on the case.

The show documents a lot of evidence which points toward the suspect.

After this, the case stopped cold and was not investigated for decades. The same woman said that she knew the name of the main suspect and states that "A lot of people went out of their way to keep the identity of this person secret."

The priest ended up leaving McAllen, and was assigned to various monasteries.

This was in 1960, the case has never been solved; the suspect is still alive.

The show repeats on ID on Dec 20 at 9:am ET; check your local listings, record it if you can.

You really have to watch the show, to get an idea of how profound this is.

Thank you so much for posting this! I saw this a long time ago and couldn't remember all of the story! Just because a man is a priest, doesn't make him a good man incapable of bad things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThePhantom]

Just covering all the angles, and I know we go round and round, but at some point we may have an "ah ha" moment -- or not -- but we might as well keep at it since all of us have the same goal.

I've often wondered if either (a) DR was aware of who was involved with Jacob's abduction either because he consorted with that person or he somehow assisted with the abduction or (b) is a scapegoat because Stearn's sheriff has made it clear they're not going to investigate any possibilities within the monastery. But they want to be able to show "progress" and DR does look like a good possibility --- abduction happened in his driveway .... and yet ----- not the FBI nor the sheriff nor anyone could come up with anything within a day of Jacob's abduction. Could DR really be that good? Or was it someone who has had practice .... someone who has been able to stay under the radar because he was never caught and certainly never suspected at the time ... free to lay in wait for his next victim(s).

 

[shergal]

And, once they got to St. John's, then what? There's no verification of this, and even if they did so, there's no info they were involved with anyone there.

Right, which is why I stated it was my opinion. We just don't know if they knew some of the priests or monks out there or not.

The boys may have known the parish priest in St. Joe even though they weren't Catholic, the 4th of July festival is run on the church/school grounds and the current priest serving there acts sort of as the "grand marshall" of the event, walking the festival grounds and talking with everyone. The one time I met Fr. Gillespie back in 1990, a co-worker who lived in St. Joe introduced him to our family and he visited with us for a while. Just discussing other ideas, as KeepHopeAlive mentioned above.

 

[Dave K]

I don't think DR can rationally speak about the events of that night. Smokey barks and disturbs his record inventory in the late afternoon, but having a major crime scene in the middle of the night doesn't seem to bother him. I have spoken to a lot of people that think he falls on the autism spectrum, like aspergers, and that is why he is so compartmentalized. They also suggested DR is very old-school farmer asexual--like he would have no desire for men, women or child.

I wish Joy's research identified these attacks in Paynesville with case numbers.

Fwiw, these speculations make a lot of sense to me:

"I have spoken to a lot of people that think he falls on the autism spectrum, like aspergers, and that is why he is so compartmentalized. They also suggested DR is very old-school farmer asexual--like he would have no desire for men, women or child."

ps: I think Joy found the info on the Paynesville cases in old newspaper reports, she mentioned something about getting information from the library, so, I don't even know whether they're online or not; and, I don't really know whether the news accounts would necessarily include case numbers or not. She does provide an email where you could ask her about something like that.

 

[Dave K]

Thank you so much for posting this! I saw this a long time ago and couldn't remember all of the story! Just because a man is a priest, doesn't make him a good man incapable of bad things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To me, the whole story, is one of the most profound examples of just how wrong things can be from more angles than one; how what would be considered the 'conventional wisdom' of 'the norm' isn't always the case.

There's also lots more to the story that you have to watch or read the article to understand; like, the family long believed that there were some kind of cooperation between the Church and local law enforcement keeping the case from being actually investigated. And, how one of the senior priests in the area tried to convince the family that the Church was going to 'take care' of the suspect and that his punishment from the church would be much greater than any prosecution, or something like that. Plus, there's a lot more evidence pointing toward the suspect, that I just didn't bother to spell out.

 

[chaplain1]

Fwiw, these speculations make a lot of sense to me:

"I have spoken to a lot of people that think he falls on the autism spectrum, like aspergers, and that is why he is so compartmentalized. They also suggested DR is very old-school farmer asexual--like he would have no desire for men, women or child."

ps: I think Joy found the info on the Paynesville cases in old newspaper reports, she mentioned something about getting information from the library, so, I don't even know whether they're online or not; and, I don't really know whether the news accounts would necessarily include case numbers or not. She does provide an email where you could ask her about something like that.

I think the Paynesville angle is possibly sleuthable. I have only seen one verified news article. There has to be some type of investigation. Anyone know a good place to eat in Paynesville? Are these just people who emailed Joy and said they were molested?

The medical cop thing is so strange. I just don't know why you wouldn't ask the question, "you out here for the call on the scanner?"

 

[chaplain1]

If a monk did it, what were the logistics? Best theory

 

[Dave K]

I think the Paynesville angle is possibly sleuthable. I have only seen one verified news article. There has to be some type of investigation. Anyone know a good place to eat in Paynesville? Are these just people who emailed Joy and said they were molested?

The medical cop thing is so strange. I just don't know why you wouldn't ask the question, "you out here for the call on the scanner?"

No, they're not just people who emailed Joy; in fact, to some extent, it's my understanding that not all of them are really interested in talking about their experience. These were documented cases 1986-89. When Joy became aware of them, she researched further, at the library, online and old newspaper articles (I just took that from "The Hunt" I have it on DVR). They were documented, but, it seems like there is only so much information provided. My understanding she just tried every method she could to research and she documented them, to some extent, in her blog.

The reason for my mentioning her email, is because, you were asking about case numbers, and I suggested that you may be able to ask her, through her site. There's a lot of information on that site; but, it's kind of hard to know how to get around it, and you have to spend a fair amount of time, clicking and reading. Here's two links about the Paynesville Incidents: http://www.joybaker.com/2014/04/07/paynesville-incidents/ and http://www.joybaker.com/2014/06/08/two-more-incidents/ again, there's a lot on this blog.

I fully agree with you about asking someone if they're a cop, under the circumstances, getting the 'medical cop' response, and not trying to follow-through. A lot of the 'Kevin's Story' doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Dave K]

All of these pictures I am posting are from the video that has been previously linked here.

View attachment 65730
This is the type sneaker that Jacob was wearing Note the specific pattern and how the sole has a pattern all the way down it.

View attachment 65731
This is a shot of Jacobs last print, directly in front of the tire tread mark. No where in the visible print field beyond the tire print do we see any additional prints from this shoe pattern.

View attachment 65732
This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further. The white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print.

View attachment 65733
The print with the red arrow is Jacobs. Who's print is identified by the blue arrow? It is a ribbed pattern crepe sole. Odd that it does not appear to be from a normal pair of shoes of that era. It does not have an individual heel such as a police or fire boot or shoe would have. Think flip-flop sole on a shoe and you get the idea. Very odd as I would not expect LE or Search teams to be wearing that type of shoe. The individual came into the print with a heavy heel, then pushed off with their toe and created the disturbance in the center where the arch would be. Note Jacobs print again. It is toe deep and heel light indicating he was on his right front half of the shoe when the print was made, and the depth and mounding indicate force. I cannot get a good view of the left print which appears to be all toe and digging in (below the red arrow). This indicates leaning forward with all his weight.....but the million dollar question. Where are his prints leading up to these? I am guessing carried here, put down and pulled into a car......BUT other scenario's are possible.

Let me ask if I'm reading this right; I think I am. I'm referring to the third picture, with the red rectangle, and the description of that picture.

Your statement: "This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further."

My interpretation: Jacob's footprint, the 'mounding' comes from the pressure when the print is made; it's broader to the left and right than it is at the toe, because, the 'mounding' made straight ahead in front of the toe, was tracked over by a tire print.

Your statement: "white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print."

My interpretation: The front tire has already rolled by, making the initial 'first tire' print, then Jacob's footprint is made, causing the mounding; and the one white 'larger' stone rolls forward from the footprint, and then the rear tire rolls over that. The 'second' tire basically flattens and embeds the 'mounding' from Jacob's footprint, but, since the one stone is a bit larger, it is not fully embedded because it fell there after the initial tire print was made, making the ground there a little more dense, then it's rolled over by the 'rear' tire only.

I hope I've got that right. That makes sense to me.

By the way, can you (or anyone) let me know how you make the colored lines, arrows, etc..., where do you start; I don't know at all how to do that.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Sasquatch what do you think?

Well the first thing I'm doing is connecting him to the vehicle with a luggage rack, but I am not of that power.

 

[ELOCsoul]

All of these pictures I am posting are from the video that has been previously linked here.

View attachment 65730
This is the type sneaker that Jacob was wearing Note the specific pattern and how the sole has a pattern all the way down it.

View attachment 65731
This is a shot of Jacobs last print, directly in front of the tire tread mark. No where in the visible print field beyond the tire print do we see any additional prints from this shoe pattern.

View attachment 65732
This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further. The white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print.

View attachment 65733
The print with the red arrow is Jacobs. Who's print is identified by the blue arrow? It is a ribbed pattern crepe sole. Odd that it does not appear to be from a normal pair of shoes of that era. It does not have an individual heel such as a police or fire boot or shoe would have. Think flip-flop sole on a shoe and you get the idea. Very odd as I would not expect LE or Search teams to be wearing that type of shoe. The individual came into the print with a heavy heel, then pushed off with their toe and created the disturbance in the center where the arch would be. Note Jacobs print again. It is toe deep and heel light indicating he was on his right front half of the shoe when the print was made, and the depth and mounding indicate force. I cannot get a good view of the left print which appears to be all toe and digging in (below the red arrow). This indicates leaning forward with all his weight.....but the million dollar question. Where are his prints leading up to these? I am guessing carried here, put down and pulled into a car......BUT other scenario's are possible.

Great post Tracker! I'm wondering about that print that you said looks like a flat bottomed flip-flip. Could it have been a black rubber cover over a boot, like the one in the picture linked below? These were extremely common on farms, and were referred to as "rubbers".

http://www.totes-isotoner.com/products/rain+products-rainwear-rubber+footwear.do

 

[scotgirl]

I find it a bit strange that although DR has stated he has sent letters to LE asking them to un name him as a POI he has never gotten a lawyer or taken legal steps to clear his name. If i was a POI for that long and was innocent i would be really angry and would have taken legal action to force LE to clear me or charge me. Does LE have something on him he doesn't want to get out. Are they at an impasse where neither can act further.

 

[ThePhantom]

Bingo.

Bingo from the Phantom too