MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[Trino]

There weren't any sketches of the abductor in the Wetterling case.

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Yes, there definitely were sketches. Don't know if they amounted to much, but you can find numerous sketches online.

 

[ELOCsoul]

There weren't any sketches of the abductor in the Wetterling case.


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You are correct. There were many sketches released during the Wetterling investigation, but there has never been a sketch of Jacob's abductor released. All sketches released (there were 9 sketches made in all) were either of people wanted for questioning as possible witnesses, or of people seen in cars, or of Jared's abductor.

 

[chaplain1]

Documentation please

I'll call my brother. And, if so, find out Jerry's role.

 

[ELOCsoul]

We may have discussed DR, but nothing about how he is out in the community or things he may have done as a teacher.

There must be something. There is nothing of any interest, good or not, about him.

For me it is of interest that he teaches children in his home and in after school programs.

I think being named as a POI should be of concern. It is the BCA and the FBI.

So ho hum. No big deal?

And there is not everything out there. Once in awhile a new thing comes out like a friend who is a pedophile, Interesting

I think everyone gets what you mean, but being named a POI does not necessarily translate to guilt. Case in point, check out this recently solved case of two South Dakota sisters missing since 1971, found in 2013. Along the way, LE suspected a classmate of the girls who was already in jail for rape when the girls were finally found. He was actually charged in the case at one point, but it turns out…the girls simply had a car accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/24/justice/south-dakota-missing-girls-car-found/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/case-missing-south-dakota-girls-finally-solved-40/story?id=23347176

 

[chaplain1]

I'll call my brother. And, if so, find out Jerry's role.

Per brother, Wetterlings owned and rented to CSB girls and was considered a "party house" with those familiar with the culture there. From my understanding, it means neighbors are agreeable to college shenanigans. Monks would not frequent the parties.

Gave me his friends email to possibly get address. It's been 25 years but should be able to be found.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I am not talking about DR's friend.

I am asking for info about DR that can be verified

There's been multiple sources indicating he was gigging in Eden Valley/Watkins area the night JW was taken. Kind of hard to kidnap a child if you're playing sets on a bandstand all night.

 

[ELOCsoul]

There's been multiple sources indicating he was gigging in Eden Valley/Watkins area the night JW was taken. Kind of hard to kidnap a child if you're playing sets on a bandstand all night.

No, no. That was the night of Jareds assault. DR was playing a gig with Betty Wolf at the American Legion in Eden Valley that night. He could not have been Jareds perpetrator. As I've posted before,that really puts an odd twist on LE`s long held view that the cases were related.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Thank you - I stand corrected. And indeed, it is an odd twist.

It sure would be a neat christmas present for the Wetterling family if the case somehow got blown wide open and the perpetrator was discovered - I wonder if that will ever happen?

 

[Trino]

Per brother, Wetterlings owned and rented to CSB girls and was considered a "party house" with those familiar with the culture there. From my understanding, it means neighbors are agreeable to college shenanigans. Monks would not frequent the parties.

Gave me his friends email to possibly get address. It's been 25 years but should be able to be found.

Your brother would not do for verification. As much as you adore him, it's simply his word.

 

[chaplain1]

Your brother would not do for verification. As much as you adore him, it's simply his word.

Idea is to verify through location address provided by his friend, property deed. I just remember this because I remember him talking about how everyone was really freaked out after this occurrence and it was an anecdote that one of the party houses was owned by the wetterling.

Possibly untrue, of course. But, I do love my brother even if he went to SJU.

 

[Dave K]

I will continue my research in all areas related to these cases. As far as I can see DR is the only one on the roaster so far. If we do not continue to seek answers these cases will never be solved. I am of the mind those who could and should have solved these cases have done a terrible job. Just my opinion.

Question which has been asked before: Anyone know if Jared can identify his attacker? Let me rephrase, do you think Jared has been shown all photographs of all potential suspects?

I'm in pretty strong agreement with your statement/opinion that this investigation has been poorly executed.

As to your concern about Jared having seen all potential suspects; the following are copied/pasted quotes from Joy's blog, either from what Joy wrote or comments from Jared himself, and/or an article that Jared published in the Paynesville Press which was also printed in the blog:

1) http://www.joybaker.com/2013/08/11/jareds-story/
2) http://www.joybaker.com/2014/01/07/embracing-the-past/
3) http://www.kare11.com/story/news/cr...ors-take-fresh-look-at-similar-cases/9064905/ 4th Video on page:

In addition to your concern about Jared having seen all potential suspects, there have, relatively recently been several posts w/questions concerning Jared, that I think can be answered by the following. Without going to find all the posts I'm referring to, I'll just paraphrase here. For one thing, I believe it's been asked a few times, whether Jared's seen all of the potential suspects.

1) "- Every time a new pedophile was arrested, Jared was asked to come in and view another mugshot."

2) Jared's comment in response to another comment; "Traci - Although I’m limited on what I can say about suspects in these cases, I can say that through the years, there have been a thousand people looked at, and at least a dozen that have not been cleared as suspects. Dan is one, even though I dismissed him as my perpetrator......"

Last paragraph of the same comment; "Yes… this case is very much active right now. We are still trying to identify all the victims of the Paynesville attacks (along with possible abduction attempts) from 1986-1987........"

3) Patty Wetterling commented during an interview, with Jared sitting right next to her; ".... every time they had a new suspect, they were running it past this poor thirteen year old kid."

At least one asked whether he's seen a photo of DAH; I think that the information above pretty well indicates that he's been briefed on any/all suspects; but, the following is also pretty interesting.

2) This is from an article that Jared submitted to the Paynesville Press, it was quoted on Joy's blog:

"Around the same time these attacks happened, there was a sexual predator from around the area who was arrested and convicted in 1990. He is still locked up. He had a history of using drugs or alcohol to subdue his victims. Over the years, I did line-ups with this man and was questioned extensively to see if I would recognize him. He was never charged in my case and, to this day, he denies any involvement."

I think there's good reason to believe that he's referring here to DAH.

Someone mentioned or asked about Jared being taken around and looking into the back seats of various autos trying to see if he can find one that resembles that of his attacker:

1) "- Jared was taken to several different auto dealers and asked to sit in the back seats of many cars, trying to find one that seemed familiar."

ThePhantom

http://saintautumn.files.wordpress.c...tor-sketch.jpg

How many times have we seen this sketch? Does Jared still think it's accurate?

Others have also asked this.

1) "..... you may recall there were two different composite sketches generated with Jared’s help. The first was done by a local sketch artist in the weeks just after his assault. However Jared admits it’s the second sketch he feels is the most accurate. That drawing was done by a professional FBI sketch artist who was flown in from Washington, D.C. to help with the investigation. Jared worked with the artist for approximately 10 hours, answering questions and agonizing over every detail to make sure the sketch best resembled the man who assaulted him."

I've wondered the same thing as to whether Jared still thinks that the sketch is accurate; but, I've heard nothing else on this, so, I presume that Jared must still feel that this sketch is the best that can be done.

I also want to throw the following in here, because of the ongoing discussion as to, to what extent did the Stearn's County investigators consider the Paynesville Incidents.

2) This is from Jared's Article to the Paper;

"Recently I discovered that Paynesville had some similar incidents take place back in 1986-1987. There were at least five attacks on 12-16 year old boys with details similar to mine."

I'm including this here, to illustrate/document that Jared, states here (in an article published this year, 2014) that he had only Recently learned about the Paynesville attacks, even though he had been working 'Closely' with authorities, ever since Jacob's abduction. Remember that it's Jared's sketch that authorities put out, and that we all look at concerning Jacob's possible abductor. So, I think that this is worth considering in the discussion of how much 'authorities' had taken Paynesville attacks into consideration concerning Jacob's abduction.

 

[cGorg]

Let me ask if I'm reading this right; I think I am. I'm referring to the third picture, with the red rectangle, and the description of that picture.

Your statement: "This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further."

My interpretation: Jacob's footprint, the 'mounding' comes from the pressure when the print is made; it's broader to the left and right than it is at the toe, because, the 'mounding' made straight ahead in front of the toe, was tracked over by a tire print.

Your statement: "white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print."

My interpretation: The front tire has already rolled by, making the initial 'first tire' print, then Jacob's footprint is made, causing the mounding; and the one white 'larger' stone rolls forward from the footprint, and then the rear tire rolls over that. The 'second' tire basically flattens and embeds the 'mounding' from Jacob's footprint, but, since the one stone is a bit larger, it is not fully embedded because it fell there after the initial tire print was made, making the ground there a little more dense, then it's rolled over by the 'rear' tire only.

I hope I've got that right. That makes sense to me.

By the way, can you (or anyone) let me know how you make the colored lines, arrows, etc..., where do you start; I don't know at all how to do that.

BEST explanation yet as to the footprint evidence available...on both accounts...Trackergd+ Dave K

 

[cGorg]

Dave K post #671...

too voluminous for my computer but well summarized.....3 points:

1. "Traci - Although I’m limited on what I can say about suspects in these cases, I can say that through the years, there have been a thousand people looked at, and at least a dozen that have not been cleared as suspects. Dan is one, even though I dismissed him as my perpetrator......" IMO Jared has dismissed DR as his perp but recognizes DR may be a suspect in other cases.
2. "Around the same time these attacks happened, there was a sexual predator from around the area who was arrested and convicted in 1990. He is still locked up. He had a history of using drugs or alcohol to subdue his victims. Over the years, I did line-ups with this man and was questioned extensively to see if I would recognize him. He was never charged in my case and, to this day, he denies any involvement." Jared doesn't indicate here if he recognizes him but I agree it seems that the possible suspect is DAH. Makes me wonder if LE actually has any evidence...i.e. rape kit.
3/ "Recently I discovered that Paynesville had some similar incidents take place back in 1986-1987. There were at least five attacks on 12-16 year old boys with details similar to mine." Seems a disconnect between LE and Jared over time.

snipped + italicized by me

 

[Dave K]

Dave K post #671...

too voluminous for my computer but well summarized.....3 points:

1. "Traci - Although I’m limited on what I can say about suspects in these cases, I can say that through the years, there have been a thousand people looked at, and at least a dozen that have not been cleared as suspects. Dan is one, even though I dismissed him as my perpetrator......" IMO Jared has dismissed DR as his perp but recognizes DR may be a suspect in other cases.
2. "Around the same time these attacks happened, there was a sexual predator from around the area who was arrested and convicted in 1990. He is still locked up. He had a history of using drugs or alcohol to subdue his victims. Over the years, I did line-ups with this man and was questioned extensively to see if I would recognize him. He was never charged in my case and, to this day, he denies any involvement." Jared doesn't indicate here if he recognizes him but I agree it seems that the possible suspect is DAH. Makes me wonder if LE actually has any evidence...i.e. rape kit.
3/ "Recently I discovered that Paynesville had some similar incidents take place back in 1986-1987. There were at least five attacks on 12-16 year old boys with details similar to mine." Seems a disconnect between LE and Jared over time.

snipped + italicized by me

Thanks for your comments.

"Jared doesn't indicate here if he recognizes him but I agree it seems that the possible suspect is DAH. Makes me wonder if LE actually has any evidence...i.e. rape kit."

I've found really limited information as to whether or not there was DNA collected from Jared's attack, and frankly, to me, what I've read, I consider pretty sketchy. I'd like to find out more about it.

Also, really all we can do is to 'Wonder' about a lot of things concerning LE, in these cases.

"Seems a disconnect between LE and Jared over time."

Evidently the Paynesville cases were never brought up to Jared by LE; until they were recently brought to light and he learned about them. Now it appears that they're working with him on the cases, but, not before now.

Here's another quote from the blog: "Since that time, Jared has been working closely with the Stearns County Sheriff’s Department to learn more about these cases from 1986-1987."

He was working closely with LE on Jacob's case from early on; but, apparently never informed or asked about the Paynesville cases. That's why I put that in there.

 

[shergal]

Thanks for your comments.

"Jared doesn't indicate here if he recognizes him but I agree it seems that the possible suspect is DAH. Makes me wonder if LE actually has any evidence...i.e. rape kit."

I've found really limited information as to whether or not there was DNA collected from Jared's attack, and frankly, to me, what I've read, I consider pretty sketchy. I'd like to find out more about it.

Also, really all we can do is to 'Wonder' about a lot of things concerning LE, in these cases.

"Seems a disconnect between LE and Jared over time."

Evidently the Paynesville cases were never brought up to Jared by LE; until they were recently brought to light and he learned about them. Now it appears that they're working with him on the cases, but, not before now.

Here's another quote from the blog: "Since that time, Jared has been working closely with the Stearns County Sheriff’s Department to learn more about these cases from 1986-1987."

He was working closely with LE on Jacob's case from early on; but, apparently never informed or asked about the Paynesville cases. That's why I put that in there.

It does make sense that LE wouldn't have shared info about the Paynesville attacks with a 12 year old boy, IMO. I get the sense from various news articles that LE looked briefly at those Paynesville attacks, decided they weren't related to Jacob or Jared, and stopped looking at them.

 

[human]

All of these pictures I am posting are from the video that has been previously linked here.

View attachment 65730
This is the type sneaker that Jacob was wearing Note the specific pattern and how the sole has a pattern all the way down it.

View attachment 65731
This is a shot of Jacobs last print, directly in front of the tire tread mark. No where in the visible print field beyond the tire print do we see any additional prints from this shoe pattern.

View attachment 65732
This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further. The white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print.

View attachment 65733
The print with the red arrow is Jacobs. Who's print is identified by the blue arrow? It is a ribbed pattern crepe sole. Odd that it does not appear to be from a normal pair of shoes of that era. It does not have an individual heel such as a police or fire boot or shoe would have. Think flip-flop sole on a shoe and you get the idea. Very odd as I would not expect LE or Search teams to be wearing that type of shoe. The individual came into the print with a heavy heel, then pushed off with their toe and created the disturbance in the center where the arch would be. Note Jacobs print again. It is toe deep and heel light indicating he was on his right front half of the shoe when the print was made, and the depth and mounding indicate force. I cannot get a good view of the left print which appears to be all toe and digging in (below the red arrow). This indicates leaning forward with all his weight.....but the million dollar question. Where are his prints leading up to these? I am guessing carried here, put down and pulled into a car......BUT other scenario's are possible.

Could the one stone that not go in deeper happen because there was a big rock underneath it? Hidden by the gravel?

Rocks come to the surface. Maybe everywhere, but especially in MN because of the freeze thaw of our climate.

 

[human]

Human was that sketch solely for the Wetterling case?

I think it was for Jared/Jacob, but I always thought the sketch was generated by Jared.

Anyone else with a better memory?

 

[human]

There's been multiple sources indicating he was gigging in Eden Valley/Watkins area the night JW was taken. Kind of hard to kidnap a child if you're playing sets on a bandstand all night.

Where did that come from? I think not

 

[human]

I'm in pretty strong agreement with your statement/opinion that this investigation has been poorly executed.

As to your concern about Jared having seen all potential suspects; the following are copied/pasted quotes from Joy's blog, either frkom what Joy wrote or comments from Jared himself, and/or an article that Jared published in the Paynesville Press which was also printed in the blog:

1) http://www.joybaker.com/2013/08/11/jareds-story/
2) http://www.joybaker.com/2014/01/07/embracing-the-past/
3) http://www.kare11.com/story/news/cr...ors-take-fresh-look-at-similar-cases/9064905/ 4th Video on page:

In addition to your concern about Jared having seen all potential suspects, there have, relatively recently been several posts w/questions concerning Jared, that I think can be answered by the following. Without going to find all the posts I'm referring to, I'll just paraphrase here. For one thing, I believe it's been asked a few times, whether Jared's seen all of the potential suspects.

1) "- Every time a new pedophile was arrested, Jared was asked to come in and view another mugshot."

2) Jared's comment in response to another comment; "Traci - Although I’m limited on what I can say about suspects in these cases, I can say that through the years, there have been a thousand people looked at, and at least a dozen that have not been cleared as suspects. Dan is one, even though I dismissed him as my perpetrator......"

Last paragraph of the same comment; "Yes… this case is very much active right now. We are still trying to identify all the victims of the Paynesville attacks (along with possible abduction attempts) from 1986-1987........"

3) Patty Wetterling commented during an interview, with Jared sitting right next to her; ".... every time they had a new suspect, they were running it past this poor thirteen year old kid."

At least one asked whether he's seen a photo of DAH; I think that the information above pretty well indicates that he's been briefed on any/all suspects; but, the following is also pretty interesting.

2) This is from an article that Jared submitted to the Paynesville Press, it was quoted on Joy's blog:

"Around the same time these attacks happened, there was a sexual predator from around the area who was arrested and convicted in 1990. He is still locked up. He had a history of using drugs or alcohol to subdue his victims. Over the years, I did line-ups with this man and was questioned extensively to see if I would recognize him. He was never charged in my case and, to this day, he denies any involvement."

I think there's good reason to believe that he's referring here to DAH.

Someone mentioned or asked about Jared being taken around and looking into the back seats of various autos trying to see if he can find one that resembles that of his attacker:

1) "- Jared was taken to several different auto dealers and asked to sit in the back seats of many cars, trying to find one that seemed familiar."



Others have also asked this.

1) "..... you may recall there were two different composite sketches generated with Jared’s help. The first was done by a local sketch artist in the weeks just after his assault. However Jared admits it’s the second sketch he feels is the most accurate. That drawing was done by a professional FBI sketch artist who was flown in from Washington, D.C. to help with the investigation. Jared worked with the artist for approximately 10 hours, answering questions and agonizing over every detail to make sure the sketch best resembled the man who assaulted him."

I've wondered the same thing as to whether Jared still thinks that the sketch is accurate; but, I've heard nothing else on this, so, I presume that Jared must still feel that this sketch is the best that can be done.

I also want to throw the following in here, because of the ongoing discussion as to, to what extent did the Stearn's County investigators consider the Paynesville Incidents.

2) This is from Jared's Article to the Paper;

"Recently I discovered that Paynesville had some similar incidents take place back in 1986-1987. There were at least five attacks on 12-16 year old boys with details similar to mine."

I'm including this here, to illustrate/document that Jared, states here (in an article published this year, 2014) that he had only Recently learned about the Paynesville attacks, even though he had been working 'Closely' with authorities, ever since Jacob's abduction. Remember that it's Jared's sketch that authorities put out, and that we all look at concerning Jacob's possible abductor. So, I think that this is worth considering in the discussion of how much 'authorities' had taken Paynesville attacks into consideration concerning Jacob's abduction.

I deduce that DAH is not the guy for Jared then.

 

[human]

About DR.

He lives in a tiny town. Small places have little going on.

No one is a saint. Anything is of interest, even if it is that someone has baked a new kind of pie.

It is strange to me that no one has any anecdotes about DR on the net .