MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

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  • #1,081
I do believe we are on the cusp of an explosion in the case. Soon we will find out how DR was able to help investigators find their guy, or the evidence from three searches and multiple interviews with LE, will show how he has lied and been deceitful since day one. This kind of thing takes time, but closure is near.
 
  • #1,082
bell's hill is on county road 158, when you are leaving cold spring heading towards richmond. You get a panoramic view of richmond ahead when you are on the top of the hill. You won't find it on a map, it's called that because of a "bell" that used to live up there. If you "google drive" down 158 toward richmond you will see it. At the bottom of the hill is tom kraemer's (tki) business - excavating, dumpsters, landfill.

kraemer's????????????
 
  • #1,083
  • #1,084
I do believe we are on the cusp of an explosion in the case. Soon we will find out how DR was able to help investigators find their guy, or the evidence from three searches and multiple interviews with LE, will show how he has lied and been deceitful since day one. This kind of thing takes time, but closure is near.

I have to disagree with the portion I bolded above. IMO, DR has not "helped" he has hindered the investigation at every turn with his tales of speeding cars and "things I saw."
 
  • #1,085
I have to disagree with the portion I bolded above. IMO, DR has not "helped" he has hindered the investigation at every turn with his tales of speeding cars and "things I saw."

Thank you.
 
  • #1,086
bravo Phantom. good post. please, someone get the courage to tell LE who did this. we need to prevent future kids from being hurt and we need answers for the Wetterlings. Yes, priests, important men in the community and LE do bad things. Talk about it. Do not cover up for the coward. If you do, you are almost as guilty.
 
  • #1,087
As guilty. Sizzle. The fires of eternity burning.
 
  • #1,088
Perhaps this guy worked with the local youth hockey....and perhaps some of the kids thought he seemed a little creepy. He made some of them uncomfortable, but he was intimidating so no one said anything.
 
  • #1,089
Yes, Notebook, because kids look up to coaches and other authority figures. They feel deferential to them, perhaps even, as you said, intimidated by them. Especially the ones that make it known they are in charge and you do as they say-- you know, the ones with the "commanding" type presence -- not afraid to tell the boys what to do, when and how. Sometimes folks like that start to feel a bit invincible, as though they have more power than others, physically and/or mentally. If they're a duplicitous narcissist, they may enjoy exercising their authority to their advantage, including being cunning and manipulative. Who knows, a select few might even get a special charge out of being in control, having the power, making things happen their way to their satisfaction. They might enjoy it so much they seek to exert that power and control again -- and again. Maybe in the midst of all that false bravado they're an alcoholic to boot, with a "hero or zero" complex -- either they are in charge or they feel like they are nothing. Does this sound like anyone you know? Is this the kind of personality that could sneak up on, abduct and assault a boy, then get back to the business of being in power and in charge? Get back in the game, so to speak?
 
  • #1,090
Yes, Notebook, because kids look up to coaches and other authority figures. They feel deferential to them, perhaps even, as you said, intimidated by them. Especially the ones that make it known they are in charge and you do as they say-- you know, the ones with the "commanding" type presence -- not afraid to tell the boys what to do, when and how. Sometimes folks like that start to feel a bit invincible, as though they have more power than others, physically and/or mentally. If they're a duplicitous narcissist, they may enjoy exercising their authority to their advantage, including being cunning and manipulative. Who knows, a select few might even get a special charge out of being in control, having the power, making things happen their way to their satisfaction. They might enjoy it so much they seek to exert that power and control again -- and again. Maybe in the midst of all that false bravado they're an alcoholic to boot, with a "hero or zero" complex -- either they are in charge or they feel like they are nothing. Does this sound like anyone you know? Is this the kind of personality that could sneak up on, abduct and assault a boy, then get back to the business of being in power and in charge? Get back in the game, so to speak?

Do we believe LE has not thought of questioning coaches?
 
  • #1,091
Trino, some of us believe LE have ......... then what happened? Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
  • #1,092
May 2015 bring closure to this case.
 
  • #1,093
A clink of the crystal glasses, hoping for truth to unfold in all its glory in the year 2015.
 
  • #1,094
New Year's Eve...lots of drinking adult beverages. I've wondered if the raspy voice of the abductor(Jared's and/or Jacob's) was the result of alcohol and not necessarily smoking. I've also wondered if the abductor was fortified with at least some liquid courage?
 
  • #1,095
Bell's Hill is on County Road 158, when you are leaving Cold Spring heading towards Richmond. You get a panoramic view of Richmond ahead when you are on the top of the hill. You won't find it on a map, it's called that because of a "Bell" that used to live up there. If you "google drive" down 158 toward Richmond you will see it. At the bottom of the hill is Tom Kraemer's (TKI) business - excavating, dumpsters, landfill.

Okay, the excavating, dumpsters, landfill part and the Kraemer association bothers me. Was that landfill searched? Does anyone know how extensively that area was searched for Jacob?

Also, was that area preselected by Jared's perp as an area he intended to drop Jared off at when he was finished because he had already determined from jared that he knew where the kraemers place was? Did this perp want to make sure that Jared would make it home? If so, do we somehow have a caring perp in Jared's case? If so, that's weird. It may also be indicative of a local person or someone in a helping profession? Or someone who knew the family? Someone who generally has some remorse or conscience? Idk. We need a psychological profiler on this one.
 
  • #1,096
In northeast Ohio we also have a horrible crime that has remained unsolved since October 27, 1989. However in our case the child's body was found. The perp has not. I have only been reading Jacobs thread for about two months and I think I became interested because of the closeness of the dates and empathy for the wetterlings because of Amy's case. In her case, EVERYONE looks like the sketch. I find that to be in common with Jacobs case. However, one recent thing has also caused me comparison. A gold or beige colored car. In Amy's case, we have a description of a car. I can't recalll the make of the car and will have to look it up. However, recently, DR has also described a gold colored car in his driveway. The close date and the car give me the creeps. Another thing making me think of Amy lately is ELOC's forthcoming book. In Amy's case, a local journalist has taken up Amy's cause in the last several years and wrote a book several years ago. It is his book and his cause that keeps Amy's case alive. A retired FBI agent has returned to Amy's case. I hope that ELOCS book will do the same for Jacob. These children and their families deserve justice. Here is Amy's blog if anyone is interested. Again, the date and car bother me. I know any connection is unlikely due to the different sexes of the victims. But Amy's perp may also have been involved with children and perhaps there are local Minnesotans who may see a background connection. *grasping for straws.

http://amymihaljevic.blogspot.com

Also, is Hennepin, Minnesota close to st. Joseph and are there state parks near st. Joseph? See this part of Amy's blog. This guy was fired in December 1988. Not sure WHEN in 1989 he arrived in Cleveland.

http://amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/search?q=Minnesota
 
  • #1,097
In northeast Ohio we also have a horrible crime that has remained unsolved since October 27, 1989. However in our case the child's body was found. The perp has not. I have only been reading Jacobs thread for about two months and I think I became interested because of the closeness of the dates and empathy for the wetterlings because of Amy's case. In her case, EVERYONE looks like the sketch. I find that to be in common with Jacobs case. However, one recent thing has also caused me comparison. A gold or beige colored car. In Amy's case, we have a description of a car. I can't recalll the make of the car and will have to look it up. However, recently, DR has also described a gold colored car in his driveway. The close date and the car give me the creeps. Another thing making me think of Amy lately is ELOC's forthcoming book. In Amy's case, a local journalist has taken up Amy's cause in the last several years and wrote a book several years ago. It is his book and his cause that keeps Amy's case alive. A retired FBI agent has returned to Amy's case. I hope that ELOCS book will do the same for Jacob. These children and their families deserve justice. Here is Amy's blog if anyone is interested. Again, the date and car bother me. I know any connection is unlikely due to the different sexes of the victims. But Amy's perp may also have been involved with children and perhaps there are local Minnesotans who may see a background connection. *grasping for straws.

http://amymihaljevic.blogspot.com

Also, is Hennepin, Minnesota close to st. Joseph and are there state parks near st. Joseph? See this part of Amy's blog. This guy was fired in December 1988. Not sure WHEN in 1989 he arrived in Cleveland.

http://amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/search?q=Minnesota

I'm very familiar with Amy's case. I believe Runkle was responsible in her case but Renner's blog did put Vern Hartenburg on my radar. He was also a park director close by in MN during the late 80's.
 
  • #1,098
On this first day of the new year I would like to send a shout out and thank you to those who have been on the ground and searching since day 1. Sometimes we forget these people aren't perfect, but are trying with the same heart we have to find Jacob-

Law Enforcement:
SS - Sheriff Sanner: Current Stearns County Sheriff on Jacob's case.
CPJ - Captain Pam Jensen: Captain Jenson, SCPD, St. Cloud, MN, has been the lead investigator on Jacob's case since 1999.
KM - Ken McDonald: Special Agent for Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. Has worked on Jacob's case since 1999.
Article on LE involved in Jacob's case: http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll...=2009110180047
CG - Charlie Grafft: Stearns County Sheriff when Jacob was abducted.
AG - Al Garber: Supervisor of the FBI’s Violent Crime Squad in Minneapolis in 1989, worked for several years on Jacob's case. He has written a book called “Striving to be the Best” on his years in the FBI and mentions some things about Jacob's case in his book.
JR - Jim Rothstein: A retired New York Police Detective who spent more than 35 years in the force, much of it investigating child slavery and pedophile rings. He worked on Jacob's case, Johnny Gosch's case, and the Smiley Face Killers cases. He is now Mayor of St. Martin, MN and helping investigate Jacob's case on his own time.
BG - Byron Gigler: FBI agent on Jacob's case in 1989.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-22-Oct-1989-***CASE-FACTS***NO-DISCUSSION***
 
  • #1,099
Also a shout out to Joy Baker for getting the word out and keeping Jacob's story in the spotlight.
 
  • #1,100
The parallels between JW's case and AM's are startling. In both cases, the "prime suspect" was a long time teacher who was considered popular and engaging with a musical bent who was also a loner who never married and considered a bit eccentric.

The big difference is that the AM suspect's link to the crime are much stronger and he did have a history of inappropriate relations with students. Still, there was never enough evidence to make an arrest.

Another big difference between these cases is that Law Enforcement has been very forthcoming with information about the case. Most likely some information has been withheld but anyone following the case would have a pretty clear idea of where the investigation stands. Interestingly, much of the key evidence was turned up by journalists rather than law enforcement.

Studying up on this case should help sleuthed understand the complexities of the JW case a little better.
 
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