MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

[Jade]

Well, I tried to look for links to confirm but am plagued by a slow computer and not enough time.

I did find this interesting post as I had previously wondered about
the skating rink incident:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4443
see post 16

On that same page very interesting postings talking about the news reports and DR as well as the revealing of the “mystery driver”.

I see also on from thread 1 that Trino has been with Jacob from the beginning and found the neighbor who didn’t open the door very strange. Jacob had been gone 15 years at the time of that post. Post # 46 thread 1

The links are all old.

I had also not seen this from Trevor:
http://wcco.com/topstories/Jacob.Wetterling.siblings.2.367636.html

All IMO

 

[margaret_diane]

My neighbor was one of the FBI agents assigned to the case. While he never discussed anything with me, his wife did so. Of course, at that time, it was thought a vehicle was involved, but there was no thought by the FBI that DR was involved.

What does the neighbor say now about DR being named a POI in the case? If he wasn't suspected by FBI at the time - then why is he now a POI?:waitasec:

 

[Trino]

As much as I am shocked that the FBI neighbor’s wife leaked information that I would presume to be top secret and he shouldn’t be chatting about it even with her and gives some insight into the naivety, I guess is the word, of the personnel involved it is confirmation that the FBI let down Jacob.

Since the cat is out of the bag I wonder what your neighbor currently feels is the case.
A passing stranger or someone local?

Does he feel at all duped that a potential suspect pretty much said “they went that a way in car”
and they went off in the direction he pointed to flounder ever since? All IMO

My neighbors moved away about 3 yrs after the abduction, and I have not kept in touch. Remember that discussions 21 yrs ago weren't what they are now - not nearly the confidentiality that there is now.

 

[shergal]

"there were witnesses who saw a red Chevette parked in the driveway "near" the time of the crime"
I've never heard this before, do you have a link that shows there were witnesses?

"it was assumed that the perp had a car, probably a red Chevette, and saw the boys earlier, figured out they would be heading south on 91st and "laid in wait" at the driveway."
From what i know of this case, you are correct that a car was assumed, but I don't think it was assumed that anyone saw them and somehow got ahead of them on the road. The road this all happened on is a dead end. The road goes past the DR farm and ends in a small loop where Jacob's home is. There is no way a car could have got ahead of them on this small back road and then "laid in wait" - and they saw no car. The FBI looked very closely at other neighbors living further south near Jacob originally. In fact, they went through their homes, yards and any out buildings several times over the years. (I know this because friends lived near the Wetterlings, and they just gave LE a key to their home so they could look through it any time they wanted to - because it happened so often.) So LE was not solely focusing on a car, even in the beginning, but that was their main lead.

Trino is correct on the driver. It is also true that the driver of the car heard it on his scanner and got to the scene before the police. When the cops got there he told them he saw bikes in the ditch, and the cops told him, "yes we know," and after speaking with him more, told him he could leave. I'm not sure if this was ever put in the report, or whether the cop who told him to leave ever even mentioned it to other officers. This is part of the original errors in the investigation. For unknown reasons, when the driver finally came forward, they cleared him completely.

 

[human]

I actually went and searched for Jacob on the weekend. Kemo has his facts mixed up and I am too lazy to look to find links.

The art student was a stranger sketching in the area during the day somewhere in the town. I don't even know if it was THE day. He did come forward, but not years later. Maybe weeks. The time line I do not remember.

 

[kemo]

I see so many errors and contradictions in these posts and I hate to contribute to them. In my efforts to figure out who the "mystery driver" with the scanner was who came forward in 2003, the only thing I could find was a reference to an "art student" with a Chevette who came forward and closed out a "promising lead". This still leaves open the question of who was the "mystery driver" and why was his story found credible?

 

[shergal]

I see so many errors and contradictions in these posts and I hate to contribute to them. In my efforts to figure out who the "mystery driver" with the scanner was who came forward in 2003, the only thing I could find was a reference to an "art student" with a Chevette who came forward and closed out a "promising lead". This still leaves open the question of who was the "mystery driver" and why was his story found credible?

Ok, Kemo, here's where you have the two cars confused. There were 2 different guys with cars, one just reported as a strange car not from the area being seen around there before Jacob's kidnapping. First guy was never at the scene that night. The other one was a car from a local who drove to the scene when he heard it on his scanner.

The small red car people reported having seen in the area before Jacob was taken was the art student scouting for scenes to sketch. (See link and quote below.) The other local guy who heard the report on his scanner at home, got in his car (NOT red) and went to the scene because he was curious. This 2nd guy talked to the officer at the scene. He was sent home. (The police probably figured it was just some nosy local and they didn't want him messing up anything at the scene.)

"No evidence was found yesterday when more than 40 deputies set out on horseback to scour dry fields near the spot where Jacob Wetterling was abducted Sunday evening, and authorities are now discounting the theory that the kidnapper may have been driving a small red car. They say an art student called police to say he had been scouting possible scenes for sketches and was probably in the car thought suspicious by several residents in the days before the kidnapping."
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/201...er-in-2004-news-interview-as-unnamed-suspect/

 

[human]

I see so many errors and contradictions in these posts and I hate to contribute to them. In my efforts to figure out who the "mystery driver" with the scanner was who came forward in 2003, the only thing I could find was a reference to an "art student" with a Chevette who came forward and closed out a "promising lead". This still leaves open the question of who was the "mystery driver" and why was his story found credible?

the mystery driver was someone named Kevin who heard the scanner. He is TOTALLY different than the art student who was sketching in the area. Totally different.

The art student came forward pretty quick. Kevin talked to LE that night and then later in 200?.

 

[kemo]

OK, this is starting to make a little sense. Still, the question remains: did Kevin, when he come forward in 2003, disclose or otherwise tip off to LE that the tire marks on the driveway near Jacobs foot print were his car and not the abductor's. Was this the basis of the "no car" theory?

 

[Trino]

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/201...er-in-2004-news-interview-as-unnamed-suspect/

Several times the reporter uses the term "yard" to indicate that J essentially disappeared from DR's property. "Yard," to me, means a smaller, suburban property. The Rassier property is a large farm.

As to DR going back to bed, honestly, I don't think I would go out at night and search. Isn't that the job of LE? God only knows what LE might do to a person who was searching on his own. As DR has stated, police could have searched his home and property that night.

DR has received death threats and is being accompanied by a paraprofessional in his classes.

 

[margaret_diane]

Several times the reporter uses the term "yard" to indicate that J essentially disappeared from DR's property. "Yard," to me, means a smaller, suburban property. The Rassier property is a large farm.

As to DR going back to bed, honestly, I don't think I would go out at night and search. Isn't that the job of LE? God only knows what LE might do to a person who was searching on his own. As DR has stated, police could have searched his home and property that night.

DR has received death threats and is being accompanied by a paraprofessional in his classes.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment and stepping a little outside my own comfort zone so please bear with me.

It may well turn out to be the BEST THING that DR did NOT assist police in any fashion that night!! Why? Because what if he HAD assisted and contaminated the scene as he was not trained in investigations? What if they found his DNA (a hair or whatever they might have found at the time), and now linked it to him, and used THAT as a basis for conviction? If he is truly innocent, then the fact that he did not assist might now be in his favor because it COULD help him avoid wrongful conviction!! Just thinking out loud here I guess...

 

[margaret_diane]

Several times the reporter uses the term "yard" to indicate that J essentially disappeared from DR's property. "Yard," to me, means a smaller, suburban property. The Rassier property is a large farm.

As to DR going back to bed, honestly, I don't think I would go out at night and search. Isn't that the job of LE? God only knows what LE might do to a person who was searching on his own. As DR has stated, police could have searched his home and property that night.

DR has received death threats and is being accompanied by a paraprofessional in his classes.

So my question is:
WHY DIDN'T THEY?!

I realize they were stressed to the max, in a panic and frantically organizing a search for this boy -- but why did they NOT search the house at the farm THAT NIGHT?

The more I ponder this case, the more I think that police named DR as a POI not because they think he DID it, but rather, because they probably think he knows more than he has shared to date. I see this as being more likely at this point, and am anxiously awaiting further test results from the most recent search.

 

[Lotus]

So my question is:
WHY DIDN'T THEY?!

I realize they were stressed to the max, in a panic and frantically organizing a search for this boy -- but why did they NOT search the house at the farm THAT NIGHT?

The more I ponder this case, the more I think that police named DR as a POI not because they think he DID it, but rather, because they probably think he knows more than he has shared to date. I see this as being more likely at this point, and am anxiously awaiting further test results from the most recent search.

I wish I knew why LE didn't search the farmhouse that night, I'm sure it became an embarrassment to LE after it was confirmed that there was no car involved. I tend to think that LE really did have solid evidence to tear up the farm and I don't think LE would want to suffer yet another embarrassment by finding no evidence. Personally I think they found something but the testing to confirm it takes forever plus all of the secrecy surrounding it leads me to believe they have something solid this time (I hope so anyway).

 

[kemo]

Until 2005, the investigation seemed to be focused on someone from out of the area who had been "prowling" the town in a car. True, police may have checked out people who lived in the vicinity and done some sort of "search" but, at least based on all of the reporting I could find, there was an assumption that it was an "outsider" with a car.

In 2003, Kevin came forward. I can find no indication that the media made that big a deal out of it at the time, but in 2005 everything changed and the investigation went back into "full throttle". That is when there was a new media "flurry" reporting that investigators have "refocused" the investigation and now believe it was someone local who did not have a car at the scene. Jacob's mother gave an interview where she referred to "mistakes" of the earlier investigation. There were indications that a "neighbor" was being looked at seriously but he was not identified. Apparently DR's farm was searched. There is no indication that people in the community were aware of who the "neighbor" was or that DR had become the object of any particular "suspicion". This is consistent with how LE generally treats POI's when there is no immediate likelihood of an arrest.

In June 2010 things changed again. DR's property was searched again. This time the media was "tipped off" and DR was named as POI (not a "suspect"). This has apparently caused many in the community to suspect/believe he is guilty.

While I don't really question the switch from the "outsider with car" to "neighbor w/o car" theory, (I think they are both plausible) I do question the publicly identifying DR. My guess is that the "outsider" theory had been "run to the ground" and there was nowhere left to go. The "neighbor w/o" had not been fully pursued. Certainly, DR would be the place to start.

Still, the question remains, was any new "evidence" discovered (other than Kevin)? Nothing has been disclosed.

If, as I suspect, the current search comes up empty, what happens to DR? Is this stigma going to taint him the rest of his life? Based on what I know now, I'd say he is probably completely uninvolved.

 

[human]

I was reading another case, and the poster said that she had searched for some mssing person (not Jacob) and the suspect had gone home and gone to sleep.

She said that the FBI said this is because the perp has no reason to stay awake as the perp already knows the answer.

I would be interesting to see if there is any research on the topic.

 

[Donjeta]

I think there might be several kinds of perps. Some might just see no reason to sacrifice their good night's sleep looking for the child since they already know where he/she is. Others might use needing to sleep as an excuse when they really just want to stay out of sight for the police and don't trust their ability to react normally to avoid police interest if they take part in the search and might have to talk to some officers because of it, or because they still have some evidence to get rid of before the police lands on their property.

Some others may want to do everything that their neighbors do and more to seem helpful and to direct suspicion away from themselves that way and hoping to find out what the police knows, perhaps getting some kicks out of the thought that the whole frantic search effort is because of THEM. These people might sometimes make themselves suspicious by trying to insert themselves too much into the investigation.

 

[kemo]

Anytime "behavior" is being evaluated as "evidence", you have to consider Contex. Was DR asked to help and he refused or did he just fail to offer his help? Refusing to speak to LE, lying or being evasive are VERY suspicious behaviors. I am not aware DR has done any of these; does anyone know? Having a lawyer present when you are being interviewed by LE is NOT suspicious. It is an indication that you believe you are under suspicion; and often a very good idea. (does anyone know if DR has lawyered up?)

From what I have read by "profilers", perps are often "overly co-operative" because they want to gain information about the case. I can think of a couple of cases of husbands that didn't seem too interested in spending any time searching for their missing wives; they KNEW it was a waste of time.

In the case of DR, I don't know enough about his behavior except that there was some "co-operation".

 

[Trino]

Anytime "behavior" is being evaluated as "evidence", you have to consider Contex. Was DR asked to help and he refused or did he just fail to offer his help? Refusing to speak to LE, lying or being evasive are VERY suspicious behaviors. I am not aware DR has done any of these; does anyone know? Having a lawyer present when you are being interviewed by LE is NOT suspicious. It is an indication that you believe you are under suspicion; and often a very good idea. (does anyone know if DR has lawyered up?)

From what I have read by "profilers", perps are often "overly co-operative" because they want to gain information about the case. I can think of a couple of cases of husbands that didn't seem too interested in spending any time searching for their missing wives; they KNEW it was a waste of time.

In the case of DR, I don't know enough about his behavior except that there was some "co-operation".

I don't believe DR was asked by police to help look for J. He simply failed to offer to help with the search. I have never heard a comment from a lawyer representing him; I believe he has been interviewed several times, although not recently.

 

[margaret_diane]

Until 2005, the investigation seemed to be focused on someone from out of the area who had been "prowling" the town in a car. True, police may have checked out people who lived in the vicinity and done some sort of "search" but, at least based on all of the reporting I could find, there was an assumption that it was an "outsider" with a car.

In 2003, Kevin came forward. I can find no indication that the media made that big a deal out of it at the time, but in 2005 everything changed and the investigation went back into "full throttle". That is when there was a new media "flurry" reporting that investigators have "refocused" the investigation and now believe it was someone local who did not have a car at the scene. Jacob's mother gave an interview where she referred to "mistakes" of the earlier investigation. There were indications that a "neighbor" was being looked at seriously but he was not identified. Apparently DR's farm was searched. There is no indication that people in the community were aware of who the "neighbor" was or that DR had become the object of any particular "suspicion". This is consistent with how LE generally treats POI's when there is no immediate likelihood of an arrest.

In June 2010 things changed again. DR's property was searched again. This time the media was "tipped off" and DR was named as POI (not a "suspect"). This has apparently caused many in the community to suspect/believe he is guilty.

While I don't really question the switch from the "outsider with car" to "neighbor w/o car" theory, (I think they are both plausible) I do question the publicly identifying DR. My guess is that the "outsider" theory had been "run to the ground" and there was nowhere left to go. The "neighbor w/o" had not been fully pursued. Certainly, DR would be the place to start.

Still, the question remains, was any new "evidence" discovered (other than Kevin)? Nothing has been disclosed.

If, as I suspect, the current search comes up empty, what happens to DR? Is this stigma going to taint him the rest of his life? Based on what I know now, I'd say he is probably completely uninvolved.

I just wanted to point out that DR did have access to a car. If he was involved, it may or may not have been used in the abduction. I do know that the following day he left his home in a car, loaded with closed boxes, and the car, and boxes were never searched.

 

[Trino]

I just wanted to point out that DR did have access to a car. If he was involved, it may or may not have been used in the abduction. I do know that the following day he left his home in a car, loaded with closed boxes, and the car, and boxes were never searched.

I think DR's car was searched about 5 days after the abduction. While I don't know if dogs were used, one would assume if J had ever been in his car the scent would have been picked up. Wouldn't J's DNA have been there, too? I think DNA has been used since the late '80's'; anyway, DR has given a DNA sample.