MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

[human]

Joy's blog on suspicious cars....she posted the article from 1989. Second sentence I think.

I believe that refers to cars in the neighborhood. Like the red art student car.

If you read Aaron's account, he specifically said no cars passed them.

I go with Aaron

 

[shergal]

In the last 6 months it's been revealed (joybaker.com blog - see Kevin's Story chapter) that Kevin did not turn around in DR's driveway, but in the driveway in town where a police officer was positioned. If you read the articles carefully, they do not say he turned around in DR's driveway specifically. It is implied by the way it is written, and I agree that I had thought the same thing. Kevin actually talked to a police officer that night, and the officer failed to report that contact. LE likely omitted that information, thereby leading the news reporters to also assume that Kevin turned around in the driveway at DR's place.

It's another example in a long line of blunders in this case.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, ELOC, but Kevin DID go into DR's driveway and turn around according to Joy's blog.

"Kevin drove all the way into Rassiers’ driveway because he didn’t realize it was a driveway. From 16th Avenue, the driveway actually looks like a dirt road....As for where Kevin turned around in relation to the light pole…All three turned in a counter-clockwise direction, yet the two cars Dan saw took a sharper turn, away from the garage/light. Kevin took a slower, more leisurely route in the big part of the driveway, closer to the light. And while none of them came directly into the light under Dan’s bedroom window, he said he still had a good view of the two cars he did see. In both cases, after the cars turned around, he hurried to a window on the opposite side of the house (the south side) and watched them zoom up the driveway. This was definitely out of the ordinary and he wanted to know who it was. He’d never seen any car drive like this in their driveway before."

 

[human]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, ELOC, but Kevin DID go into DR's driveway and turn around according to Joy's blog.

"Kevin drove all the way into Rassiers’ driveway because he didn’t realize it was a driveway. From 16th Avenue, the driveway actually looks like a dirt road....As for where Kevin turned around in relation to the light pole…All three turned in a counter-clockwise direction, yet the two cars Dan saw took a sharper turn, away from the garage/light. Kevin took a slower, more leisurely route in the big part of the driveway, closer to the light. And while none of them came directly into the light under Dan’s bedroom window, he said he still had a good view of the two cars he did see. In both cases, after the cars turned around, he hurried to a window on the opposite side of the house (the south side) and watched them zoom up the driveway. This was definitely out of the ordinary and he wanted to know who it was. He’d never seen any car drive like this in their driveway before."

Yes.

The whole thing makes no sense in that Kevin said he had been to parties at the party place.

But he did not know DR's was a driveway! Come on. It's not as if there were tons of driveways there.

 

[shergal]

I believe that refers to cars in the neighborhood. Like the red art student car.

If you read Aaron's account, he specifically said no cars passed them.

I go with Aaron

I think once they were near Tom Thumb some cars may have passed them. Just in the 3-4 block area around Tom Thumb. Locals going to or coming from the store, etc. I think that's what cGorg was referring to. Aaron has said no cars passed them further out on 16th between DR's farm and their home. (Although I seem to recall a report that Feeney had dropped some boy off at the boy's home out near Jacob's house around that time frame, so he may have been on the road at some point. But LE ruled Feeney out because there were several witnesses who saw Feeney at this home around 9 pm.) It's on here somewhere.

 

[human]

I think once they were near Tom Thumb some cars may have passed them. Just in the 3-4 block area around Tom Thumb. Locals going to or coming from the store, etc. I think that's what cGorg was referring to. Aaron has said no cars passed them further out on 16th between DR's farm and their home. (Although I seem to recall a report that Feeney had dropped some boy off at the boy's home out near Jacob's house around that time frame, so he may have been on the road at some point. But LE ruled Feeney out because there were several witnesses who saw Feeney at this home around 9 pm.) It's on here somewhere.

Can you believe all of the people who have to make up stuff relating to missing children?

Crazy

 

[human]

I do not know about the cars passing them. Maybe LE had them leave out information.

To me, it has always been specific that no cars passed them coming or going.

I just don't feel "no cars" means some cars at a different spot.

 

[human]

I wonder if DAH had a car. I cannot imagine he had much of an income.and it is hard to believe that he did not have DWI's. Certainly in small towns, he would be on LE radar screen.

He wasn't rich and famous so that LE might turn their backs on him. He had enough money for booze and enough to give to the boys he molested. His court case said that he had no community or family support.

Back to the guy who committed suicide. He may be the one Sher is talking about above, but I recall on here a discussion of a guy who either said he did it or he knew who did it.

Does anyone else remember that? There was a person on here who claimed to be a relative of the guy. I think it was in here that I read it! I don't pay much attention to some of the other crazy sites.

I do like 1000 papercuts, though. Maybe it was commentary on there.

 

[cGorg]

How far is it from that house to the site where the Bahner's were seen?

Can you see that far in the dark?

Don't know how far it is....that could be verified. There is always ambient light that is reflected off the clouds. Aaron said it was a moonless, starless night when they made the trip. So to be starless, there has to be cloud cover and clouds reflect the lights of the city. The perp was able to see the boys AFTER he told them to turn off their flashlights AND he examined each of their faces AND Aaron + Trevor said they saw the perp grab Jacob by the arm so obviously they were not in total pitch blackness.

 

[cGorg]

I think once they were near Tom Thumb some cars may have passed them. Just in the 3-4 block area around Tom Thumb. Locals going to or coming from the store, etc. I think that's what cGorg was referring to. Aaron has said no cars passed them further out on 16th between DR's farm and their home. (Although I seem to recall a report that Feeney had dropped some boy off at the boy's home out near Jacob's house around that time frame, so he may have been on the road at some point. But LE ruled Feeney out because there were several witnesses who saw Feeney at this home around 9 pm.) It's on here somewhere.

yes, thanks shergal....that is my point. Perp could have gotten ahead of the boys while within the area of streetlights + houses...basically just a block or two from Tom Thumb. There has to be some foreknowledge though that the boys would return south on 16th.

 

[cGorg]

Yes.

The whole thing makes no sense in that Kevin said he had been to parties at the party place.

But he did not know DR's was a driveway! Come on. It's not as if there were tons of driveways there.

i looked at that awhile on google....it appears DR's driveway descends at some point and you can't see the curve beyond. It must because DR says in his interview that he walked 'up the hill' to the abduction site. Plus that driveway is long and you can't see the house at all....looks like a country road rather than a driveway.

 

[ELOCsoul]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, ELOC, but Kevin DID go into DR's driveway and turn around according to Joy's blog.

"Kevin drove all the way into Rassiers’ driveway because he didn’t realize it was a driveway. From 16th Avenue, the driveway actually looks like a dirt road....As for where Kevin turned around in relation to the light pole…All three turned in a counter-clockwise direction, yet the two cars Dan saw took a sharper turn, away from the garage/light. Kevin took a slower, more leisurely route in the big part of the driveway, closer to the light. And while none of them came directly into the light under Dan’s bedroom window, he said he still had a good view of the two cars he did see. In both cases, after the cars turned around, he hurried to a window on the opposite side of the house (the south side) and watched them zoom up the driveway. This was definitely out of the ordinary and he wanted to know who it was. He’d never seen any car drive like this in their driveway before."

My mistake - I meant to say that Kevin didn't turn around by backing out of DR's driveway as had been long understood / assumed. He backed out of the driveway after speaking to the cop down the street.

Unintentional goof on my part, but yet it illustrates how what one says can take on the wrong meaning depending on the words chosen.

 

[human]

Don't know how far it is....that could be verified. There is always ambient light that is reflected off the clouds. Aaron said it was a moonless, starless night when they made the trip. So to be starless, there has to be cloud cover and clouds reflect the lights of the city. The perp was able to see the boys AFTER he told them to turn off their flashlights AND he examined each of their faces AND Aaron + Trevor said they saw the perp grab Jacob by the arm so obviously they were not in total pitch blackness.

Good points.

I am not sure how much light would be reflected off that city, though. St. Could was much different back then. And I would not call St. Joe a city.

They were right by the perp, so that is far different than seeing a few blocks away.

 

[human]

yes, thanks shergal....that is my point. Perp could have gotten ahead of the boys while within the area of streetlights + houses...basically just a block or two from Tom Thumb. There has to be some foreknowledge though that the boys would return south on 16th.

Again I ask, where is it written that the BOYS said a car passed them either direction?

 

[human]

i looked at that awhile on google....it appears DR's driveway descends at some point and you can't see the curve beyond. It must because DR says in his interview that he walked 'up the hill' to the abduction site. Plus that driveway is long and you can't see the house at all....looks like a country road rather than a driveway.

I really hate to go on and on about my country living, but----Kevin said that he had been to parties at the party place. Hence, knowledge of that exact area.

I am an adult and have no need to know of party places. But I guarantee you that I know what is a driveway and what is a road for several miles around.

I bet you could drop me off a hundred miles from here and I could figure out a road vs a driveway. It's really not that hard.

 

[cGorg]

Again I ask, where is it written that the BOYS said a car passed them either direction?

I haven't seen a quote from the boys saying a car passed them. I was referencing the 1989 newspaper article stating cars had passed them on the way or returning from Tom Thumb. That info must have come from LE as they were the ones looking to identify these cars.

 

[cGorg]

I really hate to go on and on about my country living, but----Kevin said that he had been to parties at the party place. Hence, knowledge of that exact area.

I am an adult and have no need to know of party places. But I guarantee you that I know what is a driveway and what is a road for several miles around.

I bet you could drop me off a hundred miles from here and I could figure out a road vs a driveway. It's really not that hard.

well, the mailbox is the first hint. You're a country person, if Kevin is a city kid, they don't pay it any mind so could easily think of it as a road as he couldn't see the farmhouse.

 

[human]

I haven't seen a quote from the boys saying a car passed them. I was referencing the 1989 newspaper article stating cars had passed them on the way or returning from Tom Thumb. That info must have come from LE as they were the ones looking to identify these cars.

Could you share that article please?

I do not go on blogs because the owner gets all kinds of info from people when they click on there

 

[human]

well, the mailbox is the first hint. You're a country person, if Kevin is a city kid, they don't pay it any mind so could easily think of it as a road as he couldn't see the farmhouse.

Kevin is a city kid? Do you know who Kevin is?

I have never heard where he lives. Where is that?

 

[cGorg]

Good points.

I am not sure how much light would be reflected off that city, though. St. Could was much different back then. And I would not call St. Joe a city.

They were right by the perp, so that is far different than seeing a few blocks away.

Yes, St. Joseph about 6,500 people so a small town really. I use the term 'city lights' loosely. One thing about Minnesota though is there's houses scattered all over so lots of yard lights. DR's light is too far away to have any effect. It is a good question though about Ben....how could he see those 2 guys? I'm sure a person could look during the Fall and check it out but probably not a very good idea if too close to October 22.

 

[cGorg]

Could you share that article please?

I do not go on blogs because the owner gets all kinds of info from people when they click on there

I would definitely share it if I knew how to link it....I don't. Maybe shergal can link it? (the news article posted by Joy's blog on 'suspicious cars')