MN MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

[Knox]

Starting at 40:10, Megan tells Nancy Grace thatLE has footage of Maddi's van was at a gas station in Rushford, she thinks it was a Kwik Trip, between 10:30-11:00 AM. She also acknowledges AF was living in the home, but the relationship was ending and Maddi was looking for a new place to live.

You have to start at the end of the episode, it goes over the allotted time. That's where you catch what I wrote above.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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I'm curious if AF disclosed the stop, or if LE found it either through a tip, stopping in and asking for video along the route they thought he traveled, or bank records?

 

[nocturnes]

As an attorney in this area, I’ve had a different experience as far as ROP frequency.

Either way, even if he establishes the legal relationship now, I don’t predict that he is going to be available to exercise much PT.

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

 

[azure]

Starting at 40:10, Megan tells Nancy Grace thatLE has footage of Maddi's van was at a gas station in Rushford, she thinks it was a Kwik Trip, between 10:30-11:00 AM. She also acknowledges AF was living in the home, but the relationship was ending and Maddi was looking for a new place to live.

You have to start at the end of the episode, it goes over the allotted time. That's where you catch what I wrote above.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

True Crime Podcast · Updated Daily · Nancy Grace dives deep into the day’s most shocking crimes and asks the tough questions in her new daily podcast – Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during he...

podcasts.apple.com

I'm curious if AF disclosed the stop, or if LE found it either through a tip, stopping in and asking for video along the route they thought he traveled, or bank records?

I'm sorry if this has been previously stated, but do you know if the home was rented or owned? If owned, was Madi's name on the title?

 

[Knox]

READ WINONA COUNTY HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES PETITION
Source: Madeline Kingsbury: Court docs, Minnesota police contradict claims from father of missing woman's kids

 

[youarentsilly]

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

100%

 

[Knox]

I'm sorry if this has been previously stated, but do you know if the home was rented or owned? If owned, was Madi's name on the title?

Megan said it was a duplex, IMO it is rented.

 

[PommyMommy]

As an attorney in this area, I’ve had a different experience as far as ROP frequency.

Either way, even if he establishes the legal relationship now, I don’t predict that he is going to be available to exercise much PT.

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

BBM I may be wrong but I understood "PT" to mean parenting time. MOO

 

[nocturnes]

READ WINONA COUNTY HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES PETITION
Source: Madeline Kingsbury: Court docs, Minnesota police contradict claims from father of missing woman's kids

So how does this work? Would there be another document providing evidence of those three reasons why CPS feels the children cannot be in his care (such as evidence of the alleged “criminal activity” going on in the house)? Or does CPS get to say whatever they want with zero evidence and the judge schedules a hearing?

 

[Knox]

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

I agree with you insofar as - not all men who kill their domestic partner, would harm their children.

Circumstances in this case are very different than in Eliza's case. LE has consistently said AF was the last person to see Maddi alive and her going missing is involuntary and suspicious. Couple that with the fact he was driving around in her vehicle for 3.5 hours and didn't report her missing ... that's not wild speculation. It's connecting the dots. There is much being said IMO by LE & family, simply by what they AREN'T saying - if you get my drift.

 

[Knox]

So how does this work? Would there be another document providing evidence of those three reasons why CPS feels the children cannot be in his care (such as evidence of the alleged “criminal activity” going on in the house)? Or does CPS get to say whatever they want with zero evidence and the judge schedules a hearing?

In this case, because it's an active investigation - I think they will conduct a closed hearing. The public is not going to learn any details. I had the same question as you, that was carefully crafted language.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I agree with you insofar as - not all men who kill their domestic partner, would harm their children.

Circumstances in this case are very different than in Eliza's case. LE has consistently said AF was the last person to see Maddi alive and her going missing is involuntary and suspicious. Couple that with the fact he was driving around in her vehicle for 3.5 hours and didn't report her missing ... that's not wild speculation. It's connecting the dots. There is much being said IMO by LE & family, simply by what they AREN'T saying - if you get my drift.

I agree. IMO LE has evidence a crime was committed. We just aren’t privy on what they have. Everything is pointing in one direction. The walls are closing in.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Starting at 40:10, Megan tells Nancy Grace thatLE has footage of Maddi's van was at a gas station in Rushford, she thinks it was a Kwik Trip, between 10:30-11:00 AM. She also acknowledges AF was living in the home, but the relationship was ending and Maddi was looking for a new place to live.

You have to start at the end of the episode, it goes over the allotted time. That's where you catch what I wrote above.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

True Crime Podcast · Updated Daily · Nancy Grace dives deep into the day’s most shocking crimes and asks the tough questions in her new daily podcast – Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during he...

podcasts.apple.com

I'm curious if AF disclosed the stop, or if LE found it either through a tip, stopping in and asking for video along the route they thought he traveled, or bank records?

I need a drink before listening to Nancy Grace and I don't drink!

 

[Knox]

I need a drink before listening to Nancy Grace and I don't drink!

Lol, agree. Thankfully you only had to listen for four minutes to hear what Megan said.

 

[JC40]

Duplicate

 

[JC40]

"I did not have anything to do with Maddi’s disappearance".

"My family and I have been subject to a myriad of accusations regarding the disappearance of the mother of my children... During these last 12 days, I have cooperated with law enforcement at every turn, including sitting down for multiple interviews with Winona County law enforcement... I did not have anything to do with Maddi's disappearance... I want the mother of my 5-year old and 2-year old to be found and brought home safely." Adam Fravel in a statement regarding Madeline Kingsbury's disappearance (NY Post, April 12, 2023).

Note the following: 1. "My family and I..." - since Madeline is not present (=disappeared) why not say, "My children and I..."? Question: is he saying that only his children are his family? 2. Saying twice "...the mother..." and not using a title ("my girlfriend", "my partner", etc.) 3. The section which includes "I have cooperated with law enforcement..." uses very formal language, raising the suspicion that this statement was phrased quite likely by a lawyer. 4. The denial "I did not have anything to do with Maddi's disappearance" is a strong denial; however, it uses the word "disappearance", and not e.g., "I did not have any foul play with Maddi's disappearance." If the person knows where she is, for him it is not "disappearance" and as such it would be technically truthful, but misleading. 5. "I want... to be found and brought home safely." Why not to say, "I want... to return home safely." Using passive voice means he knows that she cannot return home on her own. How does he know it?


-Avinoam Sapir

MOO

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[Occam's Zebra]

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

So it makes sense that he came back to the house with her, then left for a couple of hours (we don't know where because he hasn't said), and when he came back, she was just gone? With her phone, etc. still there?

You actually think it's more likely that a random person came across her at home in Winona (population 26,000 people - not a major city by any stretch!) and took her for no reason, than it is that her soon-to-be-ex-boyfriend did something to her? He had the motive (she was leaving him), the means (he had the van to dispose of evidence, and could presumably overpower her), and the opportunity (he was alone with her).

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't apply here. She is missing and he was the last person to see her. His story is vague and makes no sense. MOO JMO speculation

 

[ilovewings]

So it makes sense that he came back to the house with her, then left for a couple of hours (we don't know where because he hasn't said), and when he came back, she was just gone? With her phone, etc. still there?

You actually think it's more likely that a random person came across her at home in Winona (population 26,000 people - not a major city by any stretch!) and took her for no reason, than it is that her soon-to-be-ex-boyfriend did something to her? He had the motive (she was leaving him), the means (he had the van to dispose of evidence, and could presumably overpower her), and the opportunity (he was alone with her).

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't apply here. She is missing and he was the last person to see her. His story is vague and makes no sense. MOO JMO speculation

He has to be the primary POI and I hope the police put pressure on him thru interrogation. Of course he could obtain legal counsel (has he done this already?) and that would end any ability of the police to talk to him. Often I feel badly for people closest to a missing person because even when they are not involved they are always looked at as a suspect-- I get that, but sometimes the police focus so much on that person they fail to look at other potential suspects.

In this particular case however, the fact that she was leaving him, weighs heavily towards him as a suspect and that he was the last person to see her. I wish I could feel that things might turn out ok for her, but I don't see a happy ending here.

 

[JennieM]

The fact he delayed reporting her missing when most people would be extremely concerned and frantic is a massive red flag IMO.

 

[JennieM]

"I did not have anything to do with Maddi’s disappearance".

"My family and I have been subject to a myriad of accusations regarding the disappearance of the mother of my children... During these last 12 days, I have cooperated with law enforcement at every turn, including sitting down for multiple interviews with Winona County law enforcement... I did not have anything to do with Maddi's disappearance... I want the mother of my 5-year old and 2-year old to be found and brought home safely." Adam Fravel in a statement regarding Madeline Kingsbury's disappearance (NY Post, April 12, 2023).

Note the following: 1. "My family and I..." - since Madeline is not present (=disappeared) why not say, "My children and I..."? Question: is he saying that only his children are his family? 2. Saying twice "...the mother..." and not using a title ("my girlfriend", "my partner", etc.) 3. The section which includes "I have cooperated with law enforcement..." uses very formal language, raising the suspicion that this statement was phrased quite likely by a lawyer. 4. The denial "I did not have anything to do with Maddi's disappearance" is a strong denial; however, it uses the word "disappearance", and not e.g., "I did not have any foul play with Maddi's disappearance." If the person knows where she is, for him it is not "disappearance" and as such it would be technically truthful, but misleading. 5. "I want... to be found and brought home safely." Why not to say, "I want... to return home safely." Using passive voice means he knows that she cannot return home on her own. How does he know it?


-Avinoam Sapir

MOO

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"

"My family and I"

I hope the police is considering help of concealment in this investigation.

 

[?!?]

Starting at 40:10, Megan tells Nancy Grace thatLE has footage of Maddi's van was at a gas station in Rushford, she thinks it was a Kwik Trip, between 10:30-11:00 AM. She also acknowledges AF was living in the home, but the relationship was ending and Maddi was looking for a new place to live.

You have to start at the end of the episode, it goes over the allotted time. That's where you catch what I wrote above.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

True Crime Podcast · Updated Daily · Nancy Grace dives deep into the day’s most shocking crimes and asks the tough questions in her new daily podcast – Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during he...

podcasts.apple.com

I'm curious if AF disclosed the stop, or if LE found it either through a tip, stopping in and asking for video along the route they thought he traveled, or bank records?

I can't answer your question, but note with interest that Rushford is about a half-hour south of Winona, about halfway to Mabel. I wonder who lives in Mabel, and whether dad would be familiar with the route/area. There does appear to be a KwikTrip in Rushford.