MN MN - Mary, 15, & Susan Reker, 12, St Cloud, 2 Sept 1974

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I've read this thread a few times over the years, and still haven't seen some of my questions/speculations discussed; I'll try a few today.

I thought it was odd that Mary wanted to leave her stuffed animals to her sister rather than something more personal (jewelry or something like that.) Adding the part about being murdered and how important it is that her wishes be followed (paraphrased, I don't remember the exact words), it seems that there may be something important about her stuffed animals. My question about it is, does anyone know if they were ever inspected to see if one had a name or some other hint of identification on/in it?

It was also said that Susan had said she didn't want to go with that "man", but Notch would have only been 16 at the time. Is 12 young enough to consider a 16 year old a man? I know I was a lot younger than that and didn't think of my friends' 15, 16 & 18 year old siblings as adults. They were considered "guys" and "girls" to us.

Another thing I wondered about is: if there was something significant about the stuffed animals, could she have hidden something there that the killer wanted (I haven't a clue what that could be)? If so, could Susan have been tortured first trying to get Mary to say where it was hidden? Another possibility is that she was being used to make Mary more compliant during the assault on her.

Guess that's enough for this novel, as always, MOO
 
Thyme said:
Herbert Daniel Notch obituary.

"In his leisure time, he enjoyed fishing, music, camping, and spending time outdoors."

Is this the correct H.B. Notch? If so...I believe that they have omitted a few of his hobbies. This makes him sound like a saint.

Note the recent RIH tribute in the tribute section.

http://www.wingbain.com/obituaries/Herbert-Notch/#!/Obituary
Click to expand...

Yes this is the "saint" as you so eloquently stated.

Obituary for Herbert Notch
Herbert Daniel Notch, Jr. was born on October 5, 1958 in St. Cloud, Minnesota. He died on May 11, 2017 at the St. Cloud Hospital.
He was baptized and confirmed at St. Anthony’s Catholic Church and received his secondary education in the ALC in St. Cloud. He enlisted in the United States Navy, serving as a fireman recruit in San Diego, California before his honorable discharge in June of 1976. He made his living painting and shingling. In his leisure time, he enjoyed fishing, music, camping, and spending time outdoors. He particularly loved the company of his granddaughter.
Herbert is survived by Melissa, his girlfriend of 25 years; his children: Heather Notch, McKenzie Notch and Justin Schmitz; his granddaughter ZaRiyah Nickaboine; mother Joyce Notch, sister Pam Burns, brothers Steve and Tom Notch, son-in-law Marcus Nickaboine, godson Anthony Notch, nieces and nephews and family friends Cass Ellingboe and Tom Fossell.
Preceding him were his father Herbert Notch, Sr., brother Michael Notch, and ‘brother from another mother’ Steve Studdard.

Seems they didn't add
Stealing
Kidnapping
Rape
Stabbing

Yes I noticed the RIH , not sure how long that page will stay up, I imagine there would likely be more comments along those lines in the future.
 
Confusion said:
I've read this thread a few times over the years, and still haven't seen some of my questions/speculations discussed; I'll try a few today.

I thought it was odd that Mary wanted to leave her stuffed animals to her sister rather than something more personal (jewelry or something like that.) Adding the part about being murdered and how important it is that her wishes be followed (paraphrased, I don't remember the exact words), it seems that there may be something important about her stuffed animals. My question about it is, does anyone know if they were ever inspected to see if one had a name or some other hint of identification on/in it?

It was also said that Susan had said she didn't want to go with that "man", but Notch would have only been 16 at the time. Is 12 young enough to consider a 16 year old a man? I know I was a lot younger than that and didn't think of my friends' 15, 16 & 18 year old siblings as adults. They were considered "guys" and "girls" to us.

Another thing I wondered about is: if there was something significant about the stuffed animals, could she have hidden something there that the killer wanted (I haven't a clue what that could be)? If so, could Susan have been tortured first trying to get Mary to say where it was hidden? Another possibility is that she was being used to make Mary more compliant during the assault on her.

Guess that's enough for this novel, as always, MOO
Click to expand...

ELOCsoul has kindly given permission to quote from his book about the Reker sisters, here's one about the "man"

theory that more than one person was involved in the murders are the witness accounts who say they saw the Reker sisters with two men–one older and one younger. FBI profilers have suggested a boy about Mary’s age–15 years old–likely committed the stabbings. There was also a report of a suspicious-looking man seen waiting in the driver's seat of his blue Chevrolet Impala in the parking lot outside of Zayre. That, coupled with the fact Susanne complained to Mary she did not want to "go with that man," raises the possibility a young man about 20 years old was involved.

The theory of the stuffed animals is very good and I hadn't even considered it more than her favourite things. I wonder if the family kept them it would be worthwhile to see if any clue is there.
 
Confusion said:
Another thing I wondered about is: if there was something significant about the stuffed animals, could she have hidden something there that the killer wanted (I haven't a clue what that could be)? If so, could Susan have been tortured first trying to get Mary to say where it was hidden? Another possibility is that she was being used to make Mary more compliant during the assault on her.

Guess that's enough for this novel, as always, MOO
Click to expand...

Now THAT is an excellent question! Mary also like to sew. I'm going to look into this - thank you for the brilliant suggestion. Rob
 
StarrChance said:
Thankyou for the clarification, do you know if the James Wagner is a connection ie, he would know Mary from St Clould due to them being cousins?
Click to expand...

I can't say for certain, but I doubt it. Fred Reker was one of ten kids. His brother Milo had ten children, and his brother Alvin had nine children. I don't how many children his other siblings had. With that many cousins, I doubt they would have spent the limited time they had with their cousins introducing them to their friends.
 
StarrChance said:
Yes this is the "saint" as you so eloquently stated.

Obituary for Herbert Notch
Herbert Daniel Notch, Jr. was born on October 5, 1958 in St. Cloud, Minnesota. He died on May 11, 2017 at the St. Cloud Hospital.
He was baptized and confirmed at St. Anthony’s Catholic Church and received his secondary education in the ALC in St. Cloud. He enlisted in the United States Navy, serving as a fireman recruit in San Diego, California before his honorable discharge in June of 1976. He made his living painting and shingling. In his leisure time, he enjoyed fishing, music, camping, and spending time outdoors. He particularly loved the company of his granddaughter.
Herbert is survived by Melissa, his girlfriend of 25 years; his children: Heather Notch, McKenzie Notch and Justin Schmitz; his granddaughter ZaRiyah Nickaboine; mother Joyce Notch, sister Pam Burns, brothers Steve and Tom Notch, son-in-law Marcus Nickaboine, godson Anthony Notch, nieces and nephews and family friends Cass Ellingboe and Tom Fossell.
Preceding him were his father Herbert Notch, Sr., brother Michael Notch, and ‘brother from another mother’ Steve Studdard.

Seems they didn't add
Stealing
Kidnapping
Rape
Stabbing

Yes I noticed the RIH , not sure how long that page will stay up, I imagine there would likely be more comments along those lines in the future.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing they have not figured out the RIH part yet. It's not as easy as 🤬🤬🤬, MF, etc. but it's just as funny.
So his death should be a significant event, but we've not heard much about it. When you read everything about this case, you see that HDN has been an "unofficial" suspect / person of interest. Read between the lines from what the Reker's, the media, and law enforcement have said (and not said) and it is clear they all think this guy was involved. So you would think you might hear a peep about this development; but nothing. Has there been any word on his COD? He might have known his day of reckoning was coming. Maybe he had a last opportunity to make a deathbed statement, perhaps admitting his involvement and fingering another person as an accomplice. If there is a surviving accomplice, I bet they are pretty worried right about now.
btw, sometimes when LE feels they "know" somebody committed a crime, and then that person dies before they are charged, LE might even close the case. l would like to hear a statement from LE on the official current status of this case now, and what if any effect HDN's death has on it.
Another thing, if he was involved, its possible he could have confided in somebody (family, friend...) over the years, and maybe they now can feel safe to come forward at this time with what they know.
 
zensiert said:
I'm guessing they have not figured out the RIH part yet. It's not as easy as 🤬🤬🤬, MF, etc. but it's just as funny.
So his death should be a significant event, but we've not heard much about it. When you read everything about this case, you see that HDN has been an "unofficial" suspect / person of interest. Read between the lines from what the Reker's, the media, and law enforcement have said (and not said) and it is clear they all think this guy was involved. So you would think you might hear a peep about this development; but nothing. Has there been any word on his COD? He might have known his day of reckoning was coming. Maybe he had a last opportunity to make a deathbed statement, perhaps admitting his involvement and fingering another person as an accomplice. If there is a surviving accomplice, I bet they are pretty worried right about now.
btw, sometimes when LE feels they "know" somebody committed a crime, and then that person dies before they are charged, LE might even close the case. l would like to hear a statement from LE on the official current status of this case now, and what if any effect HDN's death has on it.
Another thing, if he was involved, its possible he could have confided in somebody (family, friend...) over the years, and maybe they now can feel safe to come forward at this time with what they know.
Click to expand...

ELOCsoul Author of the Reker sisters book has told me he died from liver failure. He also indicated they may be some movement in the case in the future.
 
That is interesting. Now in hindsight, if you look back over the past year there are several indications from LE and the press that they knew he was sick and probably dying. There were vague references that now make more sense. Seems they were working on him as well as his friends and family as his time on earth drew to an end .
 
It's interesting to note that throughout this past Labor Day weekend 2017 we did not hear the usual annual pleas from LE for the public's help with solving the Reker Sisters murders. Neither did we hear anything when convicted rapist and potential suspect Herb Notch died in May. Additionally, LE has been unresponsive regarding their awareness of convicted murderer and pedophile, Lloyd Lee Welch Jr., having been in St. Cloud that same 1974 Labor Day weekend, and his attempted rape of a young woman at knifepoint.
 
Actually the locations of where that store was is in incorrect. If you type in google map cashwise Waite Park 45 2nd st South Waite Park you will see from the Reker residence to that cashwise is 51 min walk. If you google Zayres St. Cloud 1974 you look at the building it is the cashwise in Waite Park. Then if you map out from cash wise to the quarry park you see that is 2 miles which is notated how far the quarry is to the last store location they were seen at. Not to mention it states shopko across the street. I just got done reading the book. What I like to know is what kind of car did notch have? Selling knives made me think of cutco. Was he a salesman for them on the side? Did the guy whom seen them at Zayres happen to catch the license plate number to the blue Chevy impala? How many people owned one at that time? Could they not search the data base at the DMV and get list of everyone who has owned a blue Chevy impala? St. Cloud I guess is big but out skirts isn’t that big. Also did Mary leave any other clues in her diary? I pray Rita gets her answer. My father in law whom passed away back in 2012 his family growing up used to live on their street and they were friends and went to the same church. So I pray Rita and the rest of her family find the answers they waited for for many decades.
 
pleasestandby said:
Mary and Susan left their home at about 11 AM from 224 18th Ave N, St. Cloud, MN, after saying and waving goodbye to their father, Fred Reker, who was painting the house. They walked the .9 of a mile to 13 North 24th Avenue, Zayre Shopper's City.

Google map of their home and the discount store.

https://goo.gl/maps/QXV3iYqVZ6A2

They were last seen at 1:30 PM, that afternoon, at Zayre Shopping City. Their mother said they needed some 'small' school supplies and would return quickly. Minus the 18 minute walk from their home to the store, that leaves 2 whole hours to shop for some 'small' school supplies at one discount store. I believe I read somewhere that Susanne was quoted as saying to her sister, "I don't want to go with that man." I think the older girl used the need for school supplies as a ruse to go to the mall and she involved her younger sister for what turned out to be false security against whom she was going to meet. (On a side note, I noticed in an obituary for Notch's brother that he belonged to Narcotics Anonymous, not that he had anything to do with the murder but the proximity of drugs to the suspect through his brother.)

Who was that man? Who worked at Zayre Shopping City? One employee who did was Herbert Daniel Notch, who, along with James A. Wagner, was charged in the rape and attempted murder, robbery and kidnapping on September 25, 1976 of a 14 year old girl who was abducted from a St. Cloud grocery store where she worked, driven to a rural area, stabbed and raped.

Notch worked at Zayre Shopper City, where the Reker girls were last seen, which was located in the Plaza West Shopping Center. He also lived near the shopping center in the 200 block of 1st Ave North as seen in the Google map below.

https://goo.gl/maps/wArcafayqco

The quarry where the girls were found can be seen just west of those locations.

Herbert Daniel Notch's mug shot can be seen on this forum on Websleuths several pages before this one.

The WJON video below, at 2:44 and 5:17, shows that Notch, identified as Mr. X, called WJON and said he wasn't the killer but that a patient at the St. Cloud's Veteran's Hospital was the killer and had committed suicide 11 days after the murder of the Reker girls. That was disproved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnW5xx5MF-I&feature=youtu.be

Herbert D. Notch currently lives in Montevideo MN.

His father's obituary:

http://sctimesinteractive.com/obituaries/?p=detail&id=581
Click to expand...

Actually the locations of where that store was is in incorrect. If you type in google map cashwise Waite Park 45 2nd st South Waite Park you will see from the Reker residence to that cashwise is 51 min walk. If you google Zayres St. Cloud 1974 you look at the building it is the cashwise in Waite Park. Then if you map out from cash wise to the quarry park you see that is 2 miles which is notated how far the quarry is to the last store location they were seen at. Not to mention it states shopko across the street. I just got done reading the book. What I like to know is what kind of car did notch have? Selling knives made me think of cutco. Was he a salesman for them on the side? Did the guy whom seen them at Zayres happen to catch the license plate number to the blue Chevy impala? How many people owned one at that time? Could they not search the data base at the DMV and get list of everyone who has owned a blue Chevy impala? St. Cloud I guess is big but out skirts isn’t that big. Also did Mary leave any other clues in her diary? I pray Rita gets her answer. My father in law whom passed away back in 2012 his family growing up used to live on their street and they were friends and went to the same church. So I pray Rita and the rest of her family find the answers they waited for for many decades.
 
Thanks! I did a radio show episode with Tricia right after Danny Heinrich was arrested in the Jacob Wetterling case. It was all a blur, my first two interviews were that night.

I’m focused now on short cold case stories, several of which are very fascinating...and have answers within reach (hopefully)
 
Ckorte81 said:
Actually the locations of where that store was is in incorrect. If you type in google map cashwise Waite Park 45 2nd st South Waite Park you will see from the Reker residence to that cashwise is 51 min walk. If you google Zayres St. Cloud 1974 you look at the building it is the cashwise in Waite Park. Then if you map out from cash wise to the quarry park you see that is 2 miles which is notated how far the quarry is to the last store location they were seen at. Not to mention it states shopko across the street. I just got done reading the book. What I like to know is what kind of car did notch have? Selling knives made me think of cutco. Was he a salesman for them on the side? Did the guy whom seen them at Zayres happen to catch the license plate number to the blue Chevy impala? How many people owned one at that time? Could they not search the data base at the DMV and get list of everyone who has owned a blue Chevy impala? St. Cloud I guess is big but out skirts isn’t that big. Also did Mary leave any other clues in her diary? I pray Rita gets her answer. My father in law whom passed away back in 2012 his family growing up used to live on their street and they were friends and went to the same church. So I pray Rita and the rest of her family find the answers they waited for for many decades.
Click to expand...
Did either Herbert Daniel Notch or James A. Wagner have access to a blue Chevrolet Impala?
 
Schipperke said:
Wondering if Notch and Wagner knew each other. . .
Click to expand...

Yes, they certainly knew each other-they kidnapped and assaulted Susie Dukowitz. Wagner didn’t live in the area at the time of the Reker murders, and was apparently ruled out as a suspect.

In my book I pointed out that Notch and Mary know each other, and that they were seen sneaking out of church in the middle of Service a few weeks before the murders. My theory is that Mary was giving him money and decided to stop. All of Notch’s crimes in the 70’s involved money, he always used a knife, and always had at least one accomplice. Also, just days before the murders, Mary begged her aunt to take her to a bank to get money...telling her she would be in a lot of trouble if she didn’t get that money.
 
ELOCsoul said:
Yes, they certainly knew each other-they kidnapped and assaulted Susie Dukowitz. Wagner didn’t live in the area at the time of the Reker murders, and was apparently ruled out as a suspect.

In my book I pointed out that Notch and Mary know each other, and that they were seen sneaking out of church in the middle of Service a few weeks before the murders. My theory is that Mary was giving him money and decided to stop. All of Notch’s crimes in the 70’s involved money, he always used a knife, and always had at least one accomplice. Also, just days before the murders, Mary begged her aunt to take her to a bank to get money...telling her she would be in a lot of trouble if she didn’t get that money.
Click to expand...

Why was she giving him money? Was she involved in some kind of romance with him? Poor girl was so young and naive.
 
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