MN - Philando Castile, 32, fatally shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #2

[katydid23]

Are they interested in getting anyone's sympathy? These types of things have been used in protests all over the world for decades. Nothing new here. Anger, frustration, expressing itself in an outward way.

No one had taken a gun and strafed people like some angry frustrated people have done .

Well, actually there have been a few incidents where protesters pulled out guns and fired shots. Several times that I know of. A fellow protester was shot in the neck in Minneapolis last week, I believe. And cops reported being shot at a few times.

ETA:
http://www.nbc15.com/content/news/O...-during-second-night-of-unrest-390163571.html

Milwaukee chief says man was shot in the neck


MILWAUKEE (AP) --Milwaukee's police chief says an 18-year-old man suffered a single gunshot wound to the neck during unrest on the city's north side, but that his life is not in danger.

The man, whose name has not been released, was shot late Sunday during a demonstration to protest the killing of a black man by a police officer a day earlier.

Police have said officers used an armored vehicle to retrieve the injured man and take him to a hospital. ,....snipped...

Flynn also said that officers came under fire Sunday but that no officers returned fire.

 

[katydid23]

There was also another shooting incident I witnessed during a live stream of the protesters. A marcher tried to block traffic by stepping into an expressway at night. A woman hit him, and she pulled over and an angry mob rushed towards her car screaming, so she drove off, and three or more protesters pulled out guns and began shooting at her. She pulled over later in a store parking lot and talked to police. There were pictures of the bullet holes in her car. She was not cited because the man she hit had jumped into the road and she had no time to stop.

links:
August 9th, 2016: A protester was accidentally struck by a car during a protest on West Florissant for the 2nd year anniversary of the shooting death of Mike Brown Jr. by Ferguson Police

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...car-hitting-multiple-times.html#ixzz4JK5NECZ9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[human]

There were shootings by white supremacists last fall in Mpls. At the Clark protests

 

[katydid23]

There were shootings by white supremacists last fall in Mpls. At the Clark protests

Right. Not surprising at all. But are you now comparing BLM protesters to 'white supremacists'? I don't think they are equivalent. The mainstream general public rejects White Supremacists with revulsion and disdain. Yet BLM is generally accepted, even by the White House and major TV networks.

 

[silverkitty]

Yet BLM is generally accepted, even by the White House and major TV networks.

There is a very substantial portion of the population who regard BOTH groups as terrorist organizations, for good reason. I wouldn't expect the political elite or the new breed of "journalists" to ever mention that fact, and they don't. It's up to citizens to educate themselves and dig out the truth that's nowadays obscured by the worst kind of partisan, PC group-think. When you can identify people's possibly baser motives -- even those from the side *you're* on -- you're better able to get past the "us vs. them" mentality that puts money into pockets at the expense of freedom and justice. We either all matter, or none of us do. Anymore, with how entitled and out of control people feel free to behave at the drop of a dime, I'm leaning more toward the latter.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[human]

Right. Not surprising at all. But are you now comparing BLM protesters to 'white supremacists'? I don't think they are equivalent. The mainstream general public rejects White Supremacists with revulsion and disdain. Yet BLM is generally accepted, even by the White House and major TV networks.

Where does the comparing come from? It was brought up about protesters shooting and I added to what was posted with the white supremists who were arrested for shooting in Mpls.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

We will all have to wait to learn more about what happened BEFORE Diamond Reynolds began video recording.

There is plenty of discussion on the web about "where" Philando Castile's gun was, and where it fell when he was pulled from the car for CPR. I happen to think that is absolutely critical to understanding what happened. Philando Castile had been pulled over by police for traffic infractions about 56 or so times in his life. He, of ALL motorists, should have understood how to act at a traffic stop.

Add into that he was a carry permit holder, who has taken the class at least once, and he should have known HOW to communicate that to a police officer during a stop, and how to behave while carrying. (Whether or not the gun was visible out in the open, or concealed.) AND-- PC does not have a history of being confrontational or mouthy, but the girlfriend, IMO, definitely does, IMO.

Minnesota permits open carry, as well as concealed carry, for those with a properly issued permit.

Rule #1 is NEVER to TOUCH or REACH for your gun during an interaction with a police officer. Never. Ever. Ever. Do NOTHING to make the officer suspicious or fearful of your actions. Carry classes emphasize this over and over and over and over and over and over.

Rule #2 is to calmly tell the officer that you have a carry permit, keep your hands off your weapon, and wait for further instructions. If an officer asks you where the gun is, you MUST tell the officer, and answer questions about what kind of gun and ammunition. These are lawful questions that MUST be complied with by all permit holders. If an officer asks you to get out of the car and frisks you, and THEN finds the gun on you or in the car, you WILL be handcuffed whether or not you have a permit card in your wallet.

It's my opinion that the officer actually SAW the unholstered and loaded gun on his lap, or that Philando was already touching or holding it at the point where the officer came to the car window. It is widely rumored that the gun was not holstered, and on his lap. I think the girlfriend was "discussing" (in a mouthy and confrontational manner, IMO) with the officer how Philando was a legal permit holder for the gun that was presumably visible, and perhaps "urging" PC to get out his permit, WHILE the officer was ordering PC NOT TO TOUCH or handle the visible weapon. If the rumors are correct, and the gun was on his lap, that is the *only* scenario that makes sense to me, given the officer's history.

IMO, there is simply no way this officer started shooting simply because PC was reaching for his wallet. I think ultimately this case will be used as an example in carry classes in MN as to what NOT to do at a traffic stop.

The gun was visible and out in the open, and PC was holding it, or touching it, while the officer was telling him not to. It is absolutely the only scenario that makes any sense. Add to that a GF who was being mouthy and confrontational, and a child in the backseat, and an officer who had some valid suspicions that the driver was a suspect in a recent robbery, and it's easy to see how a situation like this could rapidly spiral out of control.

ETA: The loose and visible gun scenario makes even more sense when you recall that Diamond Reynolds was removed from the car and had to be taken to the ground to be handcuffed. And the child removed quickly. There was an unsecured weapon in the car. She had to be removed and secured before the weapon could be removed and secured, and before PC could be removed for CPR. Her video recording the encounter definitely added stress and uncertainty to the situation, and delayed PC being removed for CPR/ care. And yes, given the presence of one gun, PC and DR would have to be checked for additional weapons before CPR or any medical care could be given. The actions of DR, IMO, substantially interfered with handling the situation once the officer fired. She became a suspect to be dealt with before PC could be attended to.

One of the worst problems in these cop shootings are videos taken in the middle of the altercation or afterward. None of them ever seem to show the beginning to the end and without that the information is distorted and totally incomplete. We saw that painfully clear in the Mike Brown case which turned out to be nothing like was first told. It was the opposite actually. Strangely no one took video while Brown had his head and upper torso in the police car as he wrestled with Officer Wilson trying to take his service weapon away from him. No one videoed Brown walking away when being told to stop and then turning around bum rushing Officer Wilson in an aggressive manner. We saw him lying in the street after it was all over with. None of those videos began to tell what really happened. If someone had taken videos of Wilson being assaulted by Brown and then showed Brown turning around to rush the officer maybe the town of Ferguson wouldn't have gone into crisis mode resulting in riots, burnings, looting everything they could take including enough prescription narcotics from the drugstore to keep everyone high in the city for an entire year.

So Diamond taking a video AFTER PC has already been shot is as incomplete information as the video taken after MB had already been shot. Neither one told what actually happened. The BLM group were immediately convinced and others too that Brown had his hands up when nothing of the sort ever happened. They believed it because the very one involved with Brown at the convenience store told that bald face lie to anyone and everyone who would standstill long enough. He told that lie continuously on CNN as their star guest. There were other witnesses who actually saw what happened and were truthful about it but CNN just took him at his word without ever vetting his story even with reporters on the ground there that could have investigated his made up 'claims'.

Who are we to know the credibility of Diamond? Didn't her own mother say she was addicted to being on social media always seeking attention? If so, that is bad for her own mother to admit that about her own daughter. It sounded like to me even her own mother has doubts about what Diamond says about what happened. She is one of the oddest women I have ever seen to be in this situation. She seemed to be enjoying the attention on social media and really didn't seem all that upset her boyfriend had been shot to death right there before her eyes. She is a strange one, imo. Which makes me think there is way more to the real story than what she says happened.

When I got my conceal weapon permit that was pounded into my brain. I know that I am never, ever, ever, to touch my weapon if it is in the vehicle with me. I am to keep my hands on the wheel in plain sight at all times. I know I am not to reach for anything until the officer specifically instructs me what I need to do and how I am to do it. I know that I am only suppose to verbally communicate with him about my weapon being in my vehicle and the location while never physically touching it. Simple traffic stops are becoming nightmares now for our police officers. It is one of the most dangerous duties they do now due to the climate they are enduring as a whole because of what a very few have done.

IMO

 

[jkly]

We will all have to wait to learn more about what happened BEFORE Diamond Reynolds began video recording.

Yes. But no one is doing that.

There is plenty of discussion on the web about "where" Philando Castile's gun was, and where it fell when he was pulled from the car for CPR. I happen to think that is absolutely critical to understanding what happened. Philando Castile had been pulled over by police for traffic infractions about 56 or so times in his life. He, of ALL motorists, should have understood how to act at a traffic stop.

Exactly. That's why I don't think he did anything to provoke the officer.

Add into that he was a carry permit holder, who has taken the class at least once, and he should have known HOW to communicate that to a police officer during a stop, and how to behave while carrying. (Whether or not the gun was visible out in the open, or concealed.) AND-- PC does not have a history of being confrontational or mouthy, but the girlfriend, IMO, definitely does, IMO.

How is that relevant? If she was mouthy or rude, the cop was justified in shooting her boyfriend?

Rule #1 is NEVER to TOUCH or REACH for your gun during an interaction with a police officer. Never. Ever. Ever. Do NOTHING to make the officer suspicious or fearful of your actions. Carry classes emphasize this over and over and over and over and over and over.

Where's the evidence he reached for his gun? Where's the evidence he did anything to make the officer suspicious or fearful of his actions? How do you know the police officer wasn't already suspicious and fearful because we know for a fact that he thought he was dealing with an armed robber?

It's my opinion that the officer actually SAW the unholstered and loaded gun on his lap, or that Philando was already touching or holding it at the point where the officer came to the car window. It is widely rumored that the gun was not holstered, and on his lap. I think the girlfriend was "discussing" (in a mouthy and confrontational manner, IMO) with the officer how Philando was a legal permit holder for the gun that was presumably visible, and perhaps "urging" PC to get out his permit, WHILE the officer was ordering PC NOT TO TOUCH or handle the visible weapon. If the rumors are correct, and the gun was on his lap, that is the *only* scenario that makes sense to me, given the officer's history.

So it's your belief that he was driving around with a gun just sitting in his lap? That sounds rather unsafe.

Why would he choose that specific traffic stop to be touching and holding his gun when he didn't do so all the times that he got pulled over in the past?

Even if Diamond was urging him to get his permit out in a mouthy and confrontational manner, how does that excuse the officer shooting him?

IMO, there is simply no way this officer started shooting simply because PC was reaching for his wallet. I think ultimately this case will be used as an example in carry classes in MN as to what NOT to do at a traffic stop.

The only scenario that makes sense to me is that the police officer thought he was dealing with an armed robber. Which is not Philando's fault and not something he could have anticipated. They weren't informed that they were possible suspects.

I agree this case will be used as an example in carry classes in MN as to what NOT to do at a traffic stop. At the police academy. They should also include a lecture explaining why you should not pull over someone that you think is an armed robber claiming they have a broken taillight, freak out and unload four bullets into them at close range.

The gun was visible and out in the open, and PC was holding it, or touching it, while the officer was telling him not to. It is absolutely the only scenario that makes any sense. Add to that a GF who was being mouthy and confrontational, and a child in the backseat, and an officer who had some valid suspicions that the driver was a suspect in a recent robbery, and it's easy to see how a situation like this could rapidly spiral out of control.

The child in the backseat helped this situation to spiral out of control? I would think that it would have the opposite effect. Why would an armed robber be driving around with a child in the backseat?


If the gun was visible from the get go, why wasn't he immediately ordered out of the car and handcuffed? Why did the cop ask for his license and registration? And why would Philando feel the need to inform him that he had a gun if it was sitting out in plain sight?

Either way, Philando wasn't the suspect and he was robbed of his due process rights.

ETA: The loose and visible gun scenario makes even more sense when you recall that Diamond Reynolds was removed from the car and had to be taken to the ground to be handcuffed. And the child removed quickly. There was an unsecured weapon in the car. She had to be removed and secured before the weapon could be removed and secured, and before PC could be removed for CPR. Her video recording the encounter definitely added stress and uncertainty to the situation, and delayed PC being removed for CPR/ care. And yes, given the presence of one gun, PC and DR would have to be checked for additional weapons before CPR or any medical care could be given. The actions of DR, IMO, substantially interfered with handling the situation once the officer fired. She became a suspect to be dealt with before PC could be attended to.

How did Diamond's actions interfere with the handling of the situation? The cop was busy hysterically yelling obscenities and pointing his gun at Philando while he bled out. She obeyed the officer's instructions, which were to keep her hands where they were.Claiming that she was the reason Philando was shot and the reason he didn't get the medical attention he needed strikes me as cruel. I'd rather blame the police officer who profiled them, went into the situation biased and pulled the trigger not one but four times.

Is a visible weapon the ONLY reason she would have been handcuffed and removed from the car? The police officer seemed to think he was in danger, he had just shot someone AND he had been under the mistaken impression that he was dealing with armed criminals BEFORE he even pulled them over. I sincerely doubt they posed any sort of threat to him. He trampled all over their rights and quoting what others have said "acted as judge, jury and executioner."

 

[jkly]

One of the worst problems in these cop shootings are videos taken in the middle of the altercation or afterward. None of them ever seem to show the beginning to the end and without that the information is distorted and totally incomplete. We saw that painfully clear in the Mike Brown case which turned out to be nothing like was first told. It was the opposite actually. Strangely no one took video while Brown had his head and upper torso in the police car as he wrestled with Officer Wilson trying to take his service weapon away from him. No one videoed Brown walking away when being told to stop and then turning around bum rushing Officer Wilson in an aggressive manner. We saw him lying in the street after it was all over with. None of those videos began to tell what really happened. If someone had taken videos of Wilson being assaulted by Brown and then showed Brown turning around to rush the officer maybe the town of Ferguson wouldn't have gone into crisis mode resulting in riots, burnings, looting everything they could take including enough prescription narcotics from the drugstore to keep everyone high in the city for an entire year.

So Diamond taking a video AFTER PC has already been shot is as incomplete information as the video taken after MB had already been shot. Neither one told what actually happened. The BLM group were immediately convinced and others too that Brown had his hands up when nothing of the sort ever happened. They believed it because the very one involved with Brown at the convenience store told that bald face lie to anyone and everyone who would standstill long enough. He told that lie continuously on CNN as their star guest. There were other witnesses who actually saw what happened and were truthful about it but CNN just took him at his word without ever vetting his story even with reporters on the ground there that could have investigated his made up 'claims'.

Who are we to know the credibility of Diamond? Didn't her own mother say she was addicted to being on social media always seeking attention? If so, that is bad for her own mother to admit that about her own daughter. It sounded like to me even her own mother has doubts about what Diamond says about what happened. She is one of the oddest women I have ever seen to be in this situation. She seemed to be enjoying the attention on social media and really didn't seem all that upset her boyfriend had been shot to death right there before her eyes. She is a strange one, imo. Which makes me think there is way more to the real story than what she says happened.

When I got my conceal weapon permit that was pounded into my brain. I know that I am never, ever, ever, to touch my weapon if it is in the vehicle with me. I am to keep my hands on the wheel in plain sight at all times. I know I am not to reach for anything until the officer specifically instructs me what I need to do and how I am to do it. I know that I am only suppose to verbally communicate with him about my weapon being in my vehicle and the location while never physically touching it. Simple traffic stops are becoming nightmares now for our police officers. It is one of the most dangerous duties they do now due to the climate they are enduring as a whole because of what a very few have done.

IMO

It sounds like traffic stops are becoming nightmares for the general public as well.

I keep reading about how Philando must be responsible for his own death and Diamond is responsible for his death alongside endless muckraking against them and speculation trying to exonerate the officer.

It's always preceded by, interestingly enough, statements like "let's wait for all the evidence to come out."

 

[katydid23]

Where does the comparing come from? It was brought up about protesters shooting and I added to what was posted with the white supremists who were arrested for shooting in Mpls.

Sorry. I thought you were making a comparison. :blush:

 

[K_Z]

IMO, there is a lot of reason for me to seriously doubt Diamond Reynolds' version of what happened before (and after) she began video recording, because of her own words-- the outright lies-- that she repeatedly told media, until Roseville Police Chief Rick Mathwig put those to rest.

Catching a witness in multiple lies is not randomly smearing someone, IMO. She had a choice to tell the truth, and did not. Her words (including the ones she spoke while being interviewed on a talkshow), AND her demeanor, AND her actions during and after the incident, are definitely fair game for discussion and criticism.

Diamond Reynolds repeatedly said no one ever gave PC medical attention or CPR. The GOVERNOR of MN repeated this as if it were fact, without bothering to find out what really happened.

Diamond Reynolds repeatedly said she was arrested, her daughter taken away, and she was held all night. She was held only 2 hours, and was never under arrest. Her daughter was with her the entire time. AND officers gave her money for groceries AND a ride home.

Here is Roseville Police Chief's Rick Mathwig, in an interview with CNN about Diamond Reynold's incorrect statements.

Philando Castile shooting: What happened when filming stopped?

Rick Mathwig says recent reports don't line up with reality. Mathwig is the police chief in Roseville, Minnesota. His officers weren't the ones who pulled over Castile or fired the fatal gunshots. But they responded to the scene in Falcon Heights after a St. Anthony police officer opened fire on Castile. In an interview with CNN, Mathwig made several points:

• Officers started administering CPR three minutes after arriving at the scene, trying to save Castile's life, Mathwig says. "It hurt me ... to hear the governor of Minnesota saying that Mr. Castile did not receive CPR," he says.

• Diamond Reynolds, Castile's fiancée who recorded the shooting aftermath in a Facebook Live video, wasn't detained by police all night, Mathwig says. The police chief says she was held for about two hours in what's called a "soft interview room" because it also contains toys, books and blankets.

• Mathwig says investigators did what they could to help Reynolds and her 4-year-old daughter. Before dropping her off at home, Mathwig says an officer gave the child a teddy bear.

Other reports state an officer gave her $40 from his own wallet for groceries, which were impounded with the car.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/13/us/police-shootings-investigations/

Diamond Reynolds told ABC's Good Morning America that she believes that St. Anthony police officer Jernomio Yanez did not follow proper police procedure.

"(The gun) never came out. It could never be a threat. He didn't ask about it. He didn't know it was on his person," Reynolds said.

http://kstp.com/news/diamond-reynolds-gma-philando-castile-shooting/4195464/

'Ma'am, keep your hands where they are,' Yanez can be heard saying from the window, sounding panicked as he continues to point his gun at Castile. He then appears to shout 'F***!'

'He just shot his arm off,' says Reynolds, maintaining her calm.

'I told him not to reach for it!' Yanez screams, sounding close to tears. 'I told him to get his hand open.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aims-reacting-gun-not-race.html#ixzz4JOaA7rKm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

BBM. That sure sounds like an "excited utterance" to me.

'I'm going to stop a car, I'm going to check ID's,' the officer can be heard saying in the recording, obtained by KARE 11.

'I have reason to pull it over. The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery.'

The officer then tells dispatch he believes the driver looks like one of the suspects because of his 'wide set nose'.

Less than two minutes later an officer screams that shots have been fired and that it's a 'code 3'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aims-reacting-gun-not-race.html#ixzz4JOahSFEu
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

We now know that Officer Yanez responded to the robbery he was referring to, and viewed the security video from the robbery. He was the chief investigator in that robbery. He IDENTIFIED PC and DR as potential suspects because their appearance, and yes, their race, matched that of the suspects. He did not "randomly" decide to pull over that car because the occupants were black-- which is what activists continue to say. He identified potential suspects, he did not "racially profile". Police are supposed to identify suspects, and arrest them. Yanez and his partner were properly doing their jobs.

There was 103 seconds that occurred between Yanez calling dispatch that he was pulling over the car, and the report of shots fired. 103 seconds. That's a lot of time for asking and answering questions. Yanez (and his partner on the other side of the car) didn't just walk up and start shooting. Yanez' partner is a critical witness, as well. It will be interesting to hear his report of what happened. Surely they ran the plates on that car as it was being pulled over-- that's pretty standard.

And PC did indeed have a history of many, many traffic infractions that would have popped up on the tag, and had been pulled over 52 times, and arrested on warrants 11 times. He had 80 some odd charges busted down to about half that, so he was a recipient of a lot of generosity on the part of the traffic judges, IMO. He drove without a license or insurance for SEVERAL YEARS. That may not be a felony, but it is definitely a crime, and mandatory court appearances in MN. I reject the idea that 52 stops for traffic issues and 11 warrants is not a significant history of law enforcement contact. And now we ALSO know that Officer Yanez was the officer who booked PC into jail on one of the warrants. Maybe Yanez remembered him, maybe not.

Lawyer: Officer who shot Philando Castile reacted to gun, not race

Jeronimo Yanez, the police officer who killed a black driver during a suburban Minnesota traffic stop this week, reacted to the man's gun — not his race — his attorney said Saturday.

St. Anthony Police Officer Yanez was reacting to "the presence of that gun and the display of that gun" when he opened fire on and killed Philando Castile, Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly told the Associated Press in an interview Saturday.

Diamond Reynolds, Castile's girlfriend who was a passenger in the car, streamed the direct aftermath of the shooting live on Facebook. Reynolds said Castile was shot several times after telling the officer he had a gun and a permit to carry it. She also said Castile was shot while reaching for his wallet.

But Kelly maintains Yanez "was reacting to the actions of the driver."

"This had nothing to do with race. This had everything to do with the presence of a gun," Kelly said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-minnesota-cop-reacted-gun-not-race/86894752/

We are not "required" to wait for the investigation to be finished, and the decision made public, to discuss or speculate on this case. We are all allowed to come to our own preliminary conclusions based on what has been made public, and what we know. We are not allowed to commit violence or crimes as a result of what we believe happened-- but that is exactly what occurs over and over with protesters and activists, and largely, they are let off the hook for those crimes.

Police and authorities are exquisitely tolerant and patient, and show incredible restraint, in dealing with and arresting those engaged in criminal behavior while "protesting". Other people, and their rights, and their property, have been harmed and damaged by that restraint, so I personally think that the police response to these protesters is far too lenient and tolerant.

I think it's going to take some very expensive lawsuits by homeowners and other citizens to persuade the liberal- minded authorities that the "rights" of the protesters END at the point in which they interfere with the rights of others moving thru society, or in their homes.

 

[human]

I guess everyone gets to make their own determination of what they see as facts based on the lens they have in their life because of life experiences.

The Governor of MN is absolutely the best. A true gentleman. In spite of his millions, he has empathy for people of lesser means such as the poor and middle class. This is why MN has been rated as one of the top states in the nation for quality of life , education, raising children, economics.

 

[K_Z]

I guess everyone gets to make their own determination of what they see as facts based on the lens they have in their life because of life experiences.

The Governor of MN is absolutely the best. A true gentleman. In spite of his millions, he has empathy for people of lesser means such as the poor and middle class. This is why MN has been rated as one of the top states in the nation for quality of life , education, raising children, economics.

The fact remains that the Governor was *entirely wrong* about medical care and CPR not being done on Philando Castile. He promoted and inflamed passions of activists and protesters with that incorrect statement. And he NEVER walked it back, or corrected himself. Not once. He also recklessly and irresponsibly painted police actions as racially motivated-- which is incendiary, coming from a sitting governor.

And that is not a little mistake. That is breathtakingly reckless and irresponsible. Perhaps legally so.

IMO, the governor's words in this particular situation brought shame, scorn, and disrepute upon the reputation of the police officers of the state-- and without a shred of evidence. He inflamed passions and promoted unrest. He did this in his official capacity in a press conference in his role as head of state. That is beyond shameful. His actions made MN less of a great place to live, and are an embarrassment to all citizens of the state, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It sounds like traffic stops are becoming nightmares for the general public as well.

I keep reading about how Philando must be responsible for his own death and Diamond is responsible for his death alongside endless muckraking against them and speculation trying to exonerate the officer.

It's always preceded by, interestingly enough, statements like "let's wait for all the evidence to come out."

I don't know who you are referring to but I never said she was responsible for her death. However; what she has said during and afterwards, and her demeanor that day is a fair subject that should be discussed. IMO

Very few cop shootings are ruled unjustifiable and that includes all races of cops and all races of the ones who were shot by police. Police officers also have a constitutional right to defend themselves even though some seem to think they are excluded from that right.

Most of the time when we see police officers killed or gravely injured with life changing injuries in a traffic stop there was a weapon involved concerning either the one stopped or one of the passengers drew their weapon. Imo, more police officers have been shot and killed in cold blood or were attempted to be murdered during a traffic stop than police shooting someone they stopped during a traffic situation where the death wasn't justified. We have 800 million police officers in our nation and its less than 1% of them who resort in shooting and killing someone. Yet, our officers make personal contact with many millions of people every year without incident.

I don't think we know at this time what happened or who caused what.

If she is to be believed then I am stunned he did the things she said he did before he was shot. Every conceal weapon permit holder that I have ever known knows not to reach for anything during a traffic stop when their weapon is in the car with them at the time. Its plain commonsense. IMO Especially now when police officers believe they have a target on their backs the last 2-3 years because of the uniform they wear or the color of their skin or both. Murders of cops are way up this year from this time last year. In 2015 the FBI reported that almost 50K officers were assaulted that year. I suspect that number will be even higher this year since some have such a disrespect and total disregard for the rule of law and for those who carry them out. What it shows is over 99% of police officers show great restraint.

Now of course, in every profession filled with human beings there are and will be some bad apples so a teeny tiny minority out of the vast majority shouldn't have ever been officers to begin with but they are few and far between among the 800 thousand..

Police officers shoot and kill whites more often than any other race every year. I put up a link here awhile back that is a site that records all people who are shot/killed by police every year. It is updated daily. There is a wealth of information at that site and he has news articles to back each shooting up.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't know who you are referring to but I never said she was responsible for her death. However; what she has said during and afterwards, and her demeanor that day is a fair subject that should be discussed. IMO

Very few cop shootings are ruled unjustifiable and that includes all races of cops and all races of the ones who were shot by police. Police officers also have a constitutional right to defend themselves even though some seem to think they are excluded from that right.

Most of the time when we see police officers killed or gravely injured with life changing injuries in a traffic stop there was a weapon involved concerning either the one stopped or one of the passengers drew their weapon. Imo, more police officers have been shot and killed in cold blood or were attempted to be murdered during a traffic stop than police shooting someone they stopped during a traffic situation where the death wasn't justified. We have 800 million police officers in our nation and its less than 1% of them who resort in shooting and killing someone. Yet, our officers make personal contact with many millions of people every year without incident.

I don't think we know at this time what happened or who caused what.

If she is to be believed then I am stunned he did the things she said he did before he was shot. Every conceal weapon permit holder that I have ever known knows not to reach for anything during a traffic stop when their weapon is in the car with them at the time. Its plain commonsense. IMO Especially now when police officers believe they have a target on their backs the last 2-3 years because of the uniform they wear or the color of their skin or both. Murders of cops are way up this year from this time last year. In 2015 the FBI reported that almost 50K officers were assaulted that year. I suspect that number will be even higher this year since some have such a disrespect and total disregard for the rule of law and for those who carry them out. What it shows is over 99% of police officers show great restraint.

Now of course, in every profession filled with human beings there are and will be some bad apples so a teeny tiny minority out of the vast majority shouldn't have ever been officers to begin with but they are few and far between among the 800 thousand..

Police officers shoot and kill whites more often than any other race every year. I put up a link here awhile back that is a site that records all people who are shot/killed by police every year. It is updated daily. There is a wealth of information at that site and he has news articles to back each shooting up.

You are correct that the number of whites shot by police is higher, but the PERCENTAGES are a different story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[human]

So.many white criminals. Is there a profile we should watch for?

 

[jkly]

Catching a witness in multiple lies is not randomly smearing someone, IMO. She had a choice to tell the truth, and did not. Her words (including the ones she spoke while being interviewed on a talkshow), AND her demeanor, AND her actions during and after the incident, are definitely fair game for discussion and criticism.

I don't recall saying they weren't. I know when people criticize the cop's behavior however, they have been told by the same people speculating about Diamond's demeanor and what Philando could have done to cause his own death to "wait until all of the information is out."

Diamond Reynolds repeatedly said no one ever gave PC medical attention or CPR. The GOVERNOR of MN repeated this as if it were fact, without bothering to find out what really happened.

I'm looking for where she made that exact statement. I keep running into articles with statements saying the chief of police is saying she said that.

I did find a link that said that Reynolds asserted that right after Castile had been shot multiple times, “nobody checked his pulse” and the officer was “still standing there with his gun still drawn after he was shot.” Both statements are true. The video shows exactly that.

She also claimed the police sent her to the an incorrect hospital, which was not the one where Castile had been taken.

Diamond Reynolds repeatedly said she was arrested, her daughter taken away, and she was held all night. She was held only 2 hours, and was never under arrest. Her daughter was with her the entire time. AND officers gave her money for groceries AND a ride home.

I'm not claiming that she didn't say that she was held all night, but I'm short for time right now, so I'll get back to that later. I just got to my hotel room after a 13 hour flight.

Other reports state an officer gave her $40 from his own wallet for groceries, which were impounded with the car.

He sounds like a nice person. Other than that, I don't care. If it came from his own pocket, that only says something about him as a human being, not every other police officer involved in this.

http://kstp.com/news/diamond-reynolds-gma-philando-castile-shooting/4195464/

'Ma'am, keep your hands where they are,' Yanez can be heard saying from the window, sounding panicked as he continues to point his gun at Castile. He then appears to shout 'F***!'

'He just shot his arm off,' says Reynolds, maintaining her calm.

'I told him not to reach for it!' Yanez screams, sounding close to tears. 'I told him to get his hand open.' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4JOaA7rKm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

BBM. That sure sounds like an "excited utterance" to me.

Reach for what? A weapon obviously. But he doesn't even sound certain of exactly what he thought Philando was reaching for.

Okay, by those rules, wouldn't this, said by Diamond seconds after the shooting also be an excited utterance?

He’s licensed to carry. He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm.

Or this:

Reynolds: He had, you told him to get his ID, sir, his driver’s license. Please don’t tell me he’s dead.

We now know that Officer Yanez responded to the robbery he was referring to, and viewed the security video from the robbery. He was the chief investigator in that robbery. He IDENTIFIED PC and DR as potential suspects because their appearance, and yes, their race, matched that of the suspects. He did not "randomly" decide to pull over that car because the occupants were black-- which is what activists continue to say. He identified potential suspects, he did not "racially profile". Police are supposed to identify suspects, and arrest them. Yanez and his partner were properly doing their jobs.

I don't think that he pulled Philando over because he was black either. I agree that it was because he thought that Philando looked like one of the suspects. However, this caused him to approach the car already viewing Philando as a possible deadly threat and it probably use his gun a lot quicker than he would if he thought it was routine stop for a broken taillight. Philando was not an armed robber. He did nothing wrong, yet the cop approached the car viewing him as having possibly done something wrong through no fault of his own. That's my point. He had no way of anticipating that.

We are not "required" to wait for the investigation to be finished, and the decision made public, to discuss or speculate on this case. We are all allowed to come to our own preliminary conclusions based on what has been made public, and what we know. We are not allowed to commit violence or crimes as a result of what we believe happened-- but that is exactly what occurs over and over with protesters and activists, and largely, they are let off the hook for those crimes.

I never said you were. But this keeps coming up as an excuse when people begin to condemn the police officer.

Police and authorities are exquisitely tolerant and patient, and show incredible restraint, in dealing with and arresting those engaged in criminal behavior while "protesting". Other people, and their rights, and their property, have been harmed and damaged by that restraint, so I personally think that the police response to these protesters is far too lenient and tolerant.

I think it's going to take some very expensive lawsuits by homeowners and other citizens to persuade the liberal- minded authorities that the "rights" of the protesters END at the point in which they interfere with the rights of others moving thru society, or in their homes.

I don't care about them. They're a problem, but they're also a different issue entirely.

 

[katydid23]

So.many white criminals. Is there a profile we should watch for?

Yes. I think that skinheads should be 'profiled.' White men with shaved heads and KKK tattoos on their necks, is one example.

 

[SweetCaroline]

I must've missed a lot from not checking in the past week or so- did someone say it was definitely NOT Philando who robbed that store? Was someone else apprehended?

 

[K_Z]

Philando Castile protest currently (rush hour, 5:30pm) underway in St. Paul, MN.

More than 100 people have gathered for a rally outside St. Paul City Hall on Tuesday afternoon, the two-month anniversary of a St. Anthony police officer fatally shooting motorist Philando Castile in Falcon Heights.

Shortly before 5:30 p.m., protesters blocked traffic at Kellogg Boulevard and Wabasha Street. They then marched in the streets before ending up in Rice Park, where they remained for a while before returning to City Hall.

Police soon encircled the group. A police commander told them the event is an unlawful assembly and said anyone who doesn’t leave would be arrested.

At least one or two protesters were soon arrested.

The Justice Occupation for Philando, which led the protest outside the Governor’s Residence in the weeks after Castile was killed, said it’s hosting the event from 4 to 10 p.m.

However, the Ramsey County attorney’s office said it has not announced a deadline — the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension continues to investigate and has not presented the case to prosecutors to consider charges against St. Anthony police officer Jeronimo Yanez, according to county attorney’s spokesman Dennis Gerhardstein.

Ramsey County Attorney John Choi has not announced by what date he will decide whether to present the case to a grand jury, which is typically how officer-involved shootings are reviewed in Ramsey County, or whether to weigh charges himself, Gerhardstein said.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/09/06/philando-castile-protest-underway-outside-st-paul-city-hall/

Several people were arrested Tuesday evening after protestors rallied outside the Ramsey County courthouse and St. Paul City Hall, then took to the streets to call for justice in the fatal police shooting of Philando Castile.

About 50 people ran out to the painted median in the middle of Kellogg Boulevard at about 4 p.m. An hour later, the group blocked traffic in the road.

Soon after, a group of about 150 then marched in the middle of Wabasha Street, also temporarily blocking other streets in downtown St. Paul. The group then gathered in Rice Park about 5:45 p.m., marching, chanting and waving signs.

There were a few tense confrontations between protesters and motorists, and several protesters were arrested after refusing to leave the road in downtown St. Paul. The rally is scheduled to last until 10 p.m. Its final destination was not publicly disclosed.

http://www.startribune.com/proteste...ll-for-justice-in-castile-shooting/392507761/


Letter (today) to the public from Ramsey County Prosecutor John Choi:

https://www.ramseycounty.us/sites/d...tter to the public regarding Castile case.pdf

(Statement of public official to the public is not subject to 10% copyright rule, so I'll post in its entirety.)

September 6, 2016

Thank you for expressing your concerns to our office over the Philando Castile case. Currently, we have
not yet received the case file from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the agency
handling the investigation into this incident. When the investigation is complete and they have turned
it over to our office for prosecutorial review, the BCA will notify the public.

Unlike many of the elected officials in our community, as County Attorney, I have a unique role in that I
am part of the legal process. That means I am very limited in what I can say about a case under active
investigation because it could compromise the investigation. As someone who is concerned about this
case, I know that’s the last thing you want to have happen.

Much of what I am able to talk about at this point, I shared initially in a press conference on July 8,
2016. The recording of that press conference and the Q & A that followed is available on our website at
www.ramseycountyattorney.org. I encourage you to watch the video in its entirety. A written copy of
my remarks is available there, as well.

On July 29, 2016, I announced my decision to add an independent special prosecutor to my staff. Don
Lewis brings a wealth of prosecutorial and legal experience to the team and will serve as an active
member of my prosecution team as we proceed with this case. Please see our website to view a copy
of this event.

I know many people in our community feel a sense of urgency about this situation and want it resolved
as soon as possible, but putting an artificial timeline on the investigation will not do it justice. I have
spoken to the Superintendent of the BCA, the agency handling the investigation, and he assured me
they are making this investigation a top priority. I have asked for a prompt and thorough investigation.
Both of these goals are equally important to ensuring the integrity of this case.

As I stated on July 8, I will make a determination at a later time about how best to proceed with a
charging decision, either by taking it to the grand jury to allow our community to make a decision, or
by handling it in our office. I need some additional time to think through my thoughts on this process
question. I am taking this thoughtful approach because it will enable me to make a fully informed
decision. There are benefits to both approaches, which I outlined during an appearance on Almanac:
http://www.tpt.org/almanac, which I also encourage you to watch.

In order to bring criminal charges against a police officer for using deadly force in the line of duty,
Minnesota law requires the State to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the use of force
was not justified. If the grand jury determines charges are warranted in this case or this office makes
that decision, I assure you that we will prosecute this case to the fullest extent of the law.

In times like these, I understand it is incredibly difficult to be patient. But above all else, I know you and
other members of our community share my primary goal, which is to achieve justice. In order to do so,
we must ensure this process is carried out with the utmost integrity. It is incumbent upon us, as
investigators and prosecutors, to not jump to conclusions, but to view our work as a sacred trust with
our community. Our system of democracy depends on our ability to diligently follow the facts and
remain faithful to the pursuit of justice.

Thank you for your understanding and for being invested and involved in our community.
Sincerely,
John J. Choi