MN - Philando Castile, 32, fatally shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #2

[K_Z]

The State Capitol is a beautiful space. Hardly ghetto.

Yes! I completely agree! You must have mis-read my post. The capitol plaza is definitely not "ghetto" (to use your word), in the slightest.

The new Senate Office Building is especially beautiful-- though the costs were quite controversial, and many legislators still refuse to move into their new offices. (They will, though-- given time. They're just pouting about it now.)

The Capitol and plaza area, with spectacular views of the historic St. Paul Cathedral and Capitol building, is one of the most beautiful capitol plazas in the country, IMO! Masqueray and Gilbert (architects) were masters! Very reminiscent of the beautiful European cathedrals and government buildings. The capitol building itself is currently undergoing a lot of renovation, and closed to the public. Alternative spaces were used for session this year.

The entire capitol plaza is quite historic, and makes a great, patriotic, and meaningful back drop for all sorts of lawful protests. It's a GREAT place to protest! That's why these Mansion protesters, if they are serious about doing this protest thing lawfully, and effectively, and peacefully, should go there to the Capitol grounds for their rallies. They can't pitch tents and trash the place, or throw things at people or cars, or wire up posters on government property, but they can "free speech" all they want, and the TV cameras will have a beautiful backdrop that emphasizes that their message is aimed at government officials. It's symbolic to have the capitol grounds in the background.

Gov Dayton, while he may make comments about welcoming protesters to Summit Ave outside of the mansion on the sidewalk and street, really has no say over that area unless he throws open the doors and invites them all inside as guests. (Which he hasn't done.) The St. Paul police, laws, and ordinances, govern what is allowed on sidewalks and streets. They can walk on the sidewalks, and probably carry signs if they wish, and probably chant, but that's it. No occupation, no tents, tarps, fires, furniture, graffiti, vandalism, etc. No wiring up stuff to the fence around the property, etc.

I'd like to see them all move to the Capitol grounds. As long as they remain peaceful and lawful there, they won't be arrested.

But, lol, we all know that's not what this bunch REALLY wants. They have no intention of being lawful, or peaceful, IMO.

 

[K_Z]

<mod snip>your points in your commentary just aren't there imo. The gf has a gun pointed at her with clear instructions on what to do - and yet is doing her own thing according to you? And she lives? That's unusual in the US.

I see you have a few that agree - not nearly as many as one year ago iirc.

The 'war' rages on with no solution according to this post. Is that what you and your followers want?

One year ago?? This just happened a few weeks ago-- July 7, IIRC. I'm quite confused by your comment.

 

[Elley Mae]

Where are the protestors peeing & pooping at?

 

[katydid23]

Where are the protestors peeing & pooping at?

In some cases, they go in the bushes, or use jars and bottles which they then throw away, or not...[ some were taken from protesters who had begun throwing urine filled bottles at cops according to a CNN report from Baton Rouge...]

ETA: links from Ferguson--

UPDATED: 58 Arrested as Ferguson Protesters Throw Rocks, Bottles at Police

St. Louis County Police tweeted the urine-filled bottles that were thrown at police.

 

[human]

Yes! I completely agree! You must have mis-read my post. The capitol plaza is definitely not "ghetto" (to use your word), in the slightest.

The new Senate Office Building is especially beautiful-- though the costs were quite controversial, and many legislators still refuse to move into their new offices. (They will, though-- given time. They're just pouting about it now.)

The Capitol and plaza area, with spectacular views of the historic St. Paul Cathedral and Capitol building, is one of the most beautiful capitol plazas in the country, IMO! Masqueray and Gilbert (architects) were masters! Very reminiscent of the beautiful European cathedrals and government buildings. The capitol building itself is currently undergoing a lot of renovation, and closed to the public. Alternative spaces were used for session this year.

The entire capitol plaza is quite historic, and makes a great, patriotic, and meaningful back drop for all sorts of lawful protests. It's a GREAT place to protest! That's why these Mansion protesters, if they are serious about doing this protest thing lawfully, and effectively, and peacefully, should go there to the Capitol grounds for their rallies. They can't pitch tents and trash the place, or throw things at people or cars, or wire up posters on government property, but they can "free speech" all they want, and the TV cameras will have a beautiful backdrop that emphasizes that their message is aimed at government officials. It's symbolic to have the capitol grounds in the background.

Gov Dayton, while he may make comments about welcoming protesters to Summit Ave outside of the mansion on the sidewalk and street, really has no say over that area unless he throws open the doors and invites them all inside as guests. (Which he hasn't done.) The St. Paul police, laws, and ordinances, govern what is allowed on sidewalks and streets. They can walk on the sidewalks, and probably carry signs if they wish, and probably chant, but that's it. No occupation, no tents, tarps, fires, furniture, graffiti, vandalism, etc. No wiring up stuff to the fence around the property, etc.

I'd like to see them all move to the Capitol grounds. As long as they remain peaceful and lawful there, they won't be arrested.

But, lol, we all know that's not what this bunch REALLY wants. They have no intention of being lawful, or peaceful, IMO.

Why choose Summit then?

 

[human]

In some cases, they go in the bushes, or use jars and bottles which they then throw away, or not...[ some were taken from protesters who had begun throwing urine filled bottles at cops according to a CNN report from Baton Rouge...]

ETA: links from Ferguson--

UPDATED: 58 Arrested as Ferguson Protesters Throw Rocks, Bottles at Police

St. Louis County Police tweeted the urine-filled bottles that were thrown at police.

That may have been Ferguson but do you have evidence of that in MN? They may use public bathrooms .

 

[Elley Mae]

That may have been Ferguson but do you have evidence of that in MN? They may use public bathrooms .

bbm Public Bathrooms? I don't even remember the last time I saw a public bathroom. I stores and shops that are for customers but I am not familiar with public bathrooms.

eta minus rest stops on highways/interstates

 

[human]

bbm Public Bathrooms? I don't even remember the last time I saw a public bathroom. I stores and shops that are for customers but I am not familiar with public bathrooms.

eta minus rest stops on highways/interstates

In Minnesota, we are civilized. We allow people to use bathrooms in businesses. We also have public bathrooms in areas where there is a lot of traffic such as where there are a lot of walking paths.

Our Governor,Mark Dayton, is of the family that started Target. You can always use the bathrooms at Target. You can always use the bathrooms at our malls. You can use bathrooms in restaurants and gas stations and convenience stores. Love Minnesota!

 

[CCmakes3]

Yes! I completely agree! You must have mis-read my post. The capitol plaza is definitely not "ghetto" (to use your word), in the slightest.

The new Senate Office Building is especially beautiful-- though the costs were quite controversial, and many legislators still refuse to move into their new offices. (They will, though-- given time. They're just pouting about it now.)

The Capitol and plaza area, with spectacular views of the historic St. Paul Cathedral and Capitol building, is one of the most beautiful capitol plazas in the country, IMO! Masqueray and Gilbert (architects) were masters! Very reminiscent of the beautiful European cathedrals and government buildings. The capitol building itself is currently undergoing a lot of renovation, and closed to the public. Alternative spaces were used for session this year.

The entire capitol plaza is quite historic, and makes a great, patriotic, and meaningful back drop for all sorts of lawful protests. It's a GREAT place to protest! That's why these Mansion protesters, if they are serious about doing this protest thing lawfully, and effectively, and peacefully, should go there to the Capitol grounds for their rallies. They can't pitch tents and trash the place, or throw things at people or cars, or wire up posters on government property, but they can "free speech" all they want, and the TV cameras will have a beautiful backdrop that emphasizes that their message is aimed at government officials. It's symbolic to have the capitol grounds in the background.

Gov Dayton, while he may make comments about welcoming protesters to Summit Ave outside of the mansion on the sidewalk and street, really has no say over that area unless he throws open the doors and invites them all inside as guests. (Which he hasn't done.) The St. Paul police, laws, and ordinances, govern what is allowed on sidewalks and streets. They can walk on the sidewalks, and probably carry signs if they wish, and probably chant, but that's it. No occupation, no tents, tarps, fires, furniture, graffiti, vandalism, etc. No wiring up stuff to the fence around the property, etc.

I'd like to see them all move to the Capitol grounds. As long as they remain peaceful and lawful there, they won't be arrested.

But, lol, we all know that's not what this bunch REALLY wants. They have no intention of being lawful, or peaceful, IMO.

Hey, at least they're not screaming about wanting dead cops or frying pigs in a blanket or yelling "Burn this B!+%# Down!" So maybe some lessons have been learned and some progress has been made. :dunno:

 

[K_Z]

Protest costs rise to $1.5M in St. Paul

Costs associated with protests in St. Paul over the shooting death of Philando Castile by a St. Anthony police officer have risen to $1.5 million.

Tonya Tennessen, spokeswoman for Mayor Chris Coleman, says of that amount, $1.3 million was for police costs through Tuesday.

The preliminary costs jumped $500,000 in the past week. As of July 17, the cost was estimated at $1 million, including a blockade that shut down Interstate 94 in St. Paul earlier this month.

Tennessen says St. Paul may ask the state or federal government for assistance.

http://www.kare11.com/news/local/philando-castile/protest-costs-rise-to-15m-in-st-paul/282911594

The cost of handling protests over the shooting of Philando Castile rose to at least $1.5 million for St. Paul—up $500,000 in the past week.

Officers have been blocking a stretch of Summit Avenue since Tuesday night, not allowing vehicles, pedestrians or bicyclists in front of the governor's mansion. Police spokesman Steve Linders said Wednesday that the department will reopen the road "when it's safe to do so."

Though it was a St. Anthony police officer who fatally shot Castile in Falcon Heights on the night of July 6, protests largely have been held in St. Paul.

The St. Paul police department requested mutual aid because they "needed assistance managing the situation" and seven other departments assisted, Linders said. Officers from Woodbury, West St. Paul and Oakdale were among those holding the line with St. Paul officers.

http://www.inforum.com/news/4082824-protests-cost-st-paul-15m-while-summit-avenue-remains-closed

 

[KaaBoom]

http://www.kare11.com/news/local/philando-castile/protest-costs-rise-to-15m-in-st-paul/282911594



http://www.inforum.com/news/4082824-protests-cost-st-paul-15m-while-summit-avenue-remains-closed

A drop in the bucket, compared to what the settlement with PC’s family will be. Retraining LEOs to stop killing innocent people, would save taxpayers billions of dollars a year. Unfortunately based on past experience, the chances of that happening are zero. The LE community would rather keep on wasting billions of dollars, rather then change.

 

[Woodland]

http://www.kare11.com/news/local/philando-castile/protest-costs-rise-to-15m-in-st-paul/282911594



http://www.inforum.com/news/4082824-protests-cost-st-paul-15m-while-summit-avenue-remains-closed

So avoidable for those that don't like this cost trend. The cost complaint in itself seems to be losing traction imo - the reason behind it seems to be picking up steam.

 

[K_Z]

Summit Avenue Reopens to Traffic Near Governor's Residence

Summit Avenue reopened to traffic Thursday morning.

http://kstp.com/news/summit-avenue-st-paul-police-philando-castile/4214256/

 

[K_Z]

So avoidable for those that don't like this cost trend. The cost complaint in itself seems to be losing traction imo - the reason behind it seems to be picking up steam.

I totally agree that these costs are completely avoidable. People should be law abiding, and not illegally riot, destroy, vandalize, occupy, and mob highways and public roads. Anarchists who participate in riots, illegal occupations, vandalism, and illegal assemblies should be arrested and jailed without bail, IMO. And when convicted, should serve at least a year of incarceration. They should lose other rights, IMO, as well, for a very lengthy period, and face large fines for their behavior, so the city and state can recoup some of the costs for their criminal misbehavior.

Most of these misfits, criminals, and trouble makers aren't employed or paying any taxes, so that would even out who is bearing the costs for their criminal misbehavior, IMO. What they do, the damage they cause to society, IMO, is far worse than theft, shoplifting, etc.

The arrests and punishments are far too few, and far too lenient. These people get literally hundreds of "second chances" before they actually receive a single bit of punishment for their actions, so don't tell me the police are "over policing".

They need to learn how to protest properly, and legally. But better than that would be learning how to behave, hold a job, and work to make changes in society EFFECTIVELY. These kind of protests serve no purpose, and create no positive change at all.

But then, these kind of protests are not designed to make any changes. They just want to destroy, disrupt, and cause discomfort-- according to THEIR OWN PRINCIPLES they publicize and teach their supporters.

I will never support this kind of lawless anarchy that tries to pretend it's "protest." Every one who participates in that is a criminal, IMO.

 

[galiuro]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-civil-rights-generation-gap-20160713-snap-story.html

&#8220;Those are some unlovable little brats out there,&#8221; the 84-year-old former Atlanta mayor and U.S. ambassador said of protesters at a recent pep talk at a police precinct. &#8220;They&#8217;re showing off. And not even with a clear message.&#8221;

&#8220;Dr. King would never take a freeway,&#8221;

&#8220;The fundamental, ongoing problem here is apparently that the vast majority of protesters don&#8217;t have any specific agenda that they&#8217;re arguing for,&#8221;

Seems not everybody agrees that this is part of the civil rights movement...

 

[Woodland]

I totally agree that these costs are completely avoidable. People should be law abiding, and not illegally riot, destroy, vandalize, occupy, and mob highways and public roads. Anarchists who participate in riots, illegal occupations, vandalism, and illegal assemblies should be arrested and jailed without bail, IMO. And when convicted, should serve at least a year of incarceration. They should lose other rights, IMO, as well, for a very lengthy period, and face large fines for their behavior, so the city and state can recoup some of the costs for their criminal misbehavior.

Most of these misfits, criminals, and trouble makers aren't employed or paying any taxes, so that would even out who is bearing the costs for their criminal misbehavior, IMO. What they do, the damage they cause to society, IMO, is far worse than theft, shoplifting, etc.

The arrests and punishments are far too few, and far too lenient. These people get literally hundreds of "second chances" before they actually receive a single bit of punishment for their actions, so don't tell me the police are "over policing".

They need to learn how to protest properly, and legally. But better than that would be learning how to behave, hold a job, and work to make changes in society EFFECTIVELY. These kind of protests serve no purpose, and create no positive change at all.

But then, these kind of protests are not designed to make any changes. They just want to destroy, disrupt, and cause discomfort-- according to THEIR OWN PRINCIPLES they publicize and teach their supporters.

I will never support this kind of lawless anarchy that tries to pretend it's "protest." Every one who participates in that is a criminal, IMO.

Trust a certain amount of support exists against 'these people, these misfits, these criminals' etc for protesting. Not seeing it as part of any solution, but certain there is some support for it anyway.

 

[katydid23]

That may have been Ferguson but do you have evidence of that in MN? They may use public bathrooms .

It happened in Cleveland:

Urine tossed, as activists from Black Lives Matter, KKK and Westboro clash outside RNC: http://www.kctv5.com/story/32479326...protest-near-east-4th-st#.V4690CZeQbQ.twitter &#8230;


nypost.com/2016/.../protesters-throwing-urine-at-each-other-outside-r...
New York Post
Jul 19, 2016 - CLEVELAND &#8212; Members of the KKK, Black Lives Matter, and Westboro Baptist Church reportedly threw urine at each other and police had to step in in an attempt to keep the peace, a police spokesperson told KPLC.

And they threw bottles at police in Minneapolis. Who knows that was in those bottles:
Hundreds arrested in protests over shootings by police - CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/10/us/black-lives-matter-protests/

And in St Paul:

Protest shuts down I-94 in St. Paul, Minnesota, 21 officers injured ...
www.fox9.com/news/172332402-story
Jul 9, 2016 - 5 officers were injured when protesters threw fireworks, rocks, bottles, rebar and bricks on I-94 in St. Paul, Minn. Posted:Jul 09 2016 08:16PM ...

And bottles were thrown in Chicago:

RAW VIDEO: Protesters throw bottles at police, horses | abc7chicago ...
abc7chicago.com/news/raw-video-protesters-throw-bottles-at-police.../1420806/
Jul 9, 2016 - Protesters threw bottles at police and their horses Saturday night in the South Loop. The group had marched for hours throughout downtown ...
www.cnn.com/2016/07/10/us/black-lives-matter-protests/


AND throwing bottles in Philly at DNC:


More bottles being thrown at cops drawing scorn of fellow protesters. "Don't give 'em any ammunition," one says.
5:24 PM - 26 Jul 2016 · Philadelphia, PA, United States

 

[human]

I totally agree that these costs are completely avoidable. People should be law abiding, and not illegally riot, destroy, vandalize, occupy, and mob highways and public roads. Anarchists who participate in riots, illegal occupations, vandalism, and illegal assemblies should be arrested and jailed without bail, IMO. And when convicted, should serve at least a year of incarceration. They should lose other rights, IMO, as well, for a very lengthy period, and face large fines for their behavior, so the city and state can recoup some of the costs for their criminal misbehavior.

Most of these misfits, criminals, and trouble makers aren't employed or paying any taxes, so that would even out who is bearing the costs for their criminal misbehavior, IMO. What they do, the damage they cause to society, IMO, is far worse than theft, shoplifting, etc.

The arrests and punishments are far too few, and far too lenient. These people get literally hundreds of "second chances" before they actually receive a single bit of punishment for their actions, so don't tell me the police are "over policing".

They need to learn how to protest properly, and legally. But better than that would be learning how to behave, hold a job, and work to make changes in society EFFECTIVELY. These kind of protests serve no purpose, and create no positive change at all.

But then, these kind of protests are not designed to make any changes. They just want to destroy, disrupt, and cause discomfort-- according to THEIR OWN PRINCIPLES they publicize and teach their supporters.

I will never support this kind of lawless anarchy that tries to pretend it's "protest." Every one who participates in that is a criminal, IMO.

Yes! Great ideas.,And let us take the bankers and the white color criminals who work but steal from us and make those sentences and fines fit. I lived in a city where the guy who did the police union pension stuff stole the money and the officers lost tons of their pensions. This guy was another officer. There are plenty of crimes where the ante could be upped . Moat emblezzlers serve little time. So up with the time and fines! Yes!

 

[human]

It happened in Cleveland:

Urine tossed, as activists from Black Lives Matter, KKK and Westboro clash outside RNC: http://www.kctv5.com/story/32479326...protest-near-east-4th-st#.V4690CZeQbQ.twitter &#8230;


nypost.com/2016/.../protesters-throwing-urine-at-each-other-outside-r...
New York Post
Jul 19, 2016 - CLEVELAND &#8212; Members of the KKK, Black Lives Matter, and Westboro Baptist Church reportedly threw urine at each other and police had to step in in an attempt to keep the peace, a police spokesperson told KPLC.

And they threw bottles at police in Minneapolis. Who knows that was in those bottles:
Hundreds arrested in protests over shootings by police - CNN.com

And bottles were thrown in Chicago:

RAW VIDEO: Protesters throw bottles at police, horses | abc7chicago ...
abc7chicago.com/news/raw-video-protesters-throw-bottles-at-police.../1420806/
Jul 9, 2016 - Protesters threw bottles at police and their horses Saturday night in the South Loop. The group had marched for hours throughout downtown ...
www.cnn.com/2016/07/10/us/black-lives-matter-protests/


AND throwing bottles in Philly at DNC:


More bottles being thrown at cops drawing scorn of fellow protesters. "Don't give 'em any ammunition," one says.
5:24 PM - 26 Jul 2016 · Philadelphia, PA, United States

I was asking for the proof re MN. Thanks anyway.

 

[katydid23]

I was asking for the proof re MN. Thanks anyway.

So if it happens in St Louis and Cincinnati, and they also throw bottles at cops in Chicago, NY, Philly, Baton Rouge, then why would you doubt they'd do it in MN?

There are no bathroom facilities available for the most part. They are marching day and night and using a bottle to fill up with urine is the common routine for the marchers. I posted links showing they have been throwing those urine filled bottles at police in at least two major cities. I have no doubt they have done the same in other cities as well.