MN - Philando Castile, 32, fatally shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #2

[galiuro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/us/police-and-protesters-clash-in-minnesota-capital.html?_r=0

The police in St. Paul said at least five officers were injured by fireworks, rocks, bricks and glass bottles that they said were thrown by protesters.

http://www.dglobe.com/news/4081664-updated-police-arrest-protesters-outside-governors-home

Water bottles and cigarettes were thrown, according to police.

 

[Elley Mae]

There are some establishments 2 blocks south that would have restrooms for customers, I presume. I would imagine that since the time the protesters have been that after a while the owners of the establishments would not be happy.

Are they leaving to take showers or are they doing the wilderness thing? hope they were brushing their teeth. .



https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9406074,-93.1431546,389m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Trident]

Yes! Great ideas.,And let us take the bankers and the white color criminals who work but steal from us and make those sentences and fines fit. I lived in a city where the guy who did the police union pension stuff stole the money and the officers lost tons of their pensions. This guy was another officer. There are plenty of crimes where the ante could be upped . Moat emblezzlers serve little time. So up with the time and fines! Yes!

I totally agree. ALL crimes matter, the same as ALL lives. Great idea, really. Throw 'em all in jail.

:cow:

 

[K_Z]

To get back on the topic of Philando Castile (before the thread is shut down), I think it’s very important to remember that at this point in time, we have ONLY the “protesters” version of events, and what the (IMO, mouthy and belligerent) girlfriend decided to “livestream” during the police encounter.

The investigation is not yet complete, and yet all these “protesters” are SOOO certain that an officer with NO history of complaints, and NO history of using his weapon, is guilty of cold-blooded murder without provocation. There has not been an officer-involved shooting in THIRTY YEARS or more in the St. Anthony police department, and yet all these “activists” are SOOOOO certain that St. Anthony police are all dirty, racist, murdering cops.

Sgt. Jon Mangseth, interim chief, said the shooting was the first he could remember in the department’s history.

“We haven’t had an officer-involved shooting in 30 years or more. I’d have to go back in the history books, to tell you the truth,” he said during a news briefing at the crime scene. “It’s shocking. It’s not something that occurs in this area often.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...traffic-stop-aftermath-broadcast-on-facebook/

So, a thinking, reasonable, logical person has to look at the entire situation, the fact that the car driven by PC was pulled over BECAUSE the car and occupants resembled suspects from a recent armed robbery, AND there was a BOLO alert, and factor in the deplorable behavior of the girlfriend on her own video, and ask, “what exactly happened here?” Because from where I’m sitting, the actions of the officer are not the only questions to be answered.

Both PC and his (IMO, mouthy, belligerent) girlfriend played a significant part in what unfolded. As soon as I saw the video she uploaded, I knew she was a significant part of the problem that lead to the shooting. This woman was primed and EAGER for a defiant, belligerant encounter with the police officer, IMO. And IMO, there is no way, that she was at all polite, cooperative, or respectful prior to when she began video recording. I personally think her actions are a huge part of what transpired, and she has been shown to have lied and told several versions of what happened in her interviews. I posted about this earlier in the thread-- her conflicting stories over whether or not, or exactly when, they told, or didn't tell, the officer PC had a gun.

And yet so many of the protesters are so certain that the actions of PC and DR were above reproach or criticism. That is disingenuous, at best, and delusional, at worst. This guy has been pulled over more than 50 times by police, and literally YEARS of driving without a license, registration, or insurance-- all crimes. He, of all people, should know EXACTLY how to behave during a traffic stop, right? So that doesn't make sense, either.

This particular police department, and this particular officer, have exactly NO history of the accusations of “systematic racism and brutality.”

So what happened? We will have to wait thru months of riots and protests and baseless accusations, and cries for firing and prosecuting the officer, and dumping St. Anthony police coverage, to find out. Just as in the Jamar Clark case, where every single action he took was proven to be criminal, and the shooting was amply justified by his actions proven by the evidence. Just like Michael Brown.

These protests by BLM and other misguided "protesters" is not a "civil rights" movement. It's an anathema to civil rights. It is profoundly dangerous that they are attempting to change the media dialogue to frame their criminal actions as "civil rights", and persuading politicians that what they are doing is akin to "civil rights".

So much of what these “perpetually aggrieved and agitated” race protesters espouse is a lie (particularly BLM, founded on a mountain of lies), that it’s almost impossible to remember that there is evidenced based TRUTH coming from the investigation.

Until then, I have a very high level of suspicion for what PC and his GF did—their behavior, words, and attitude-- during the encounter, that resulted in the shooting. It’s impossible for me to believe this particular officer, with no history, in a department with no shootings for 30+ years, just went all crazy in sleepy Falcon Heights and started shooting a man during a supposed “traffic stop” for “no reason.” That is what completely defies logic, for me.

 

[Jax49]

Lot of scrolling and rolling required on this thread. SMH.

 

[K_Z]

Newly released dash cam video shows St. Paul police officers making arrests during their hours-long effort to clear the area in front of the Governor's Mansion Tuesday.

The video, which was posted on YouTube, includes more than five hours of the scene that day -- with the majority of the morning's arrests starting at the 3:56 mark, just after Summit Avenue was re-opened to traffic.

The St. Paul Police Department posted the video to its Facebook page, saying the video shows protesters stepping into the middle of the street, which made arrests "necessary."

http://www.kare11.com/news/st-paul-police-release-dash-cam-of-summit-ave-protests/283461467

[video=youtube;79c-JmXkXOw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79c-JmXkXOw[/video]

 

[human]

http://www.kare11.com/news/st-paul-police-release-dash-cam-of-summit-ave-protests/283461467

[video=youtube;79c-JmXkXOw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79c-JmXkXOw[/video]

Ugh. What a mess. They need to be taken out of jail and made to clean up. If someone else has cleaned it up, I am sure there are plenty of areas that need picking up. I lived in a middle to upper class ruralish area in MN Every spring after the snow melt, I would pick up about a three mile area of road. My main finds were empty beer and liquor bottles. And of course the larger items such as a suite of living room furniture I left for a neighbor with a truck and hardy sons.

In MN we have volunteers pledge to clean up two mile stretches of highway, There are plenty of other places that need clean up that do not have volunteers.

 

[sds71]

Special Prosecutor to join shooting probe

 

[K_Z]

Ramsey County Attorney John Choi has asked a veteran attorney with roots in St. Paul’s Rondo community to join his office as a special prosecutor in the inquiry into the death of Philando Castile.

Don Lewis, who has experience in civil desegregation, criminal defense and other practices of law will be “integral” to the investigation, although Choi has not yet decided whether he will present the case to a grand jury. Choi also said that he cannot completely defer the case to a special prosecutor, as members of the community have asked.

“I understand that there is distrust of the system and some may question the ability of a prosecutor to hold police accountable when we rely on them to present cases to our office,” Choi said. “However, if I handed this case off to any other person outside of the duties and authority of my office I would not only be abdicating my responsibility but potentially creating mistrust.”

However, he said incorporating Lewis into his team brings an independent special prosecutor without law enforcement interests, and will provide “transparency and confidence for the public.”

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) is investigating the July 6 shooting, and hasn’t said that the investigation is completed. If previous officer-involved shootings are any indication, it’s unlikely that such an investigation would be completed in three weeks.

http://www.startribune.com/ramsey-c...nt-about-philando-castile-shooting/388654691/

BBM

 

[K_Z]

He said he is still deciding whether he’ll make the decision himself or use a grand jury. Lewis will be deeply involved in handling the case in the same capacity as an assistant Ramsey County prosecutor, Choi said.

Choi said the BCA hasn’t given “any specific timelines” on the case. He noted that the investigation of the killing of Jamar Clark by Minneapolis police, another high-profile case handled by the BCA, took about four and a half months before Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman announced the decision not to bring charges.

In the past, Choi has always used a grand jury to decide whether to prosecute in officer-involved shootings.

But that practice has been criticized in recent years by those calling for more police oversight — who say grand juries typically just do what prosecutors want anyway and offer them political cover.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/29/ramsey-county-attorney-philando-castile/

Choi says Lewis, a former federal prosecutor and Hamline Law dean, will help his team determine whether or not charges should be filed in the case.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...fice-to-give-update-on-philando-castile-case/

Riham Feshir @RihamFeshir
Choi says he doesn't recall Ramsey County ever doing anything like this in the past. There is some precedent in this local community
10:05 AM - 29 Jul 2016

http://bringmethenews.com/2016/07/2...e-update-on-philando-castile-case-at-945-a-m/

 

[K_Z]

Protests shut down two municipal liquor stores in St. Anthony

Both of St. Anthony’s municipal liquor stores closed early Saturday ahead of a protest over the fatal shooting of Philando Castile by one of the city’s police officers.

The liquor stores were targeted because their revenue helps to fund St. Anthony’s police force, according to a Facebook page created by protest organizers.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/30/protests-shut-down-two-municipal-liquor-stores-in-st-anthony/

Protests, officer-involved shootings draw scrutiny for city mayors

Coleman, a former National League of Cities president widely seen as a possible gubernatorial candidate in 2018, has taken criticism from activists for describing the July 9 closure of Interstate 94 by protesters as a riot after rocks thrown on the highway injured several police officers. Dozens of protesters were arrested and charged with rioting, a gross misdemeanor.

Other members of the public have questioned why the interstate protest — which started in the evening and lasted until nearly midnight — was allowed to continue as long as it did.

“I’m getting critiqued from every possible angle,” the mayor said. “It must be I’m doing something right.”

The city is seeking to balance things out and keep things as calm as possible, he explains. Breaking up a protest can sometimes result in more folks coming in and “putting more of a spotlight on things.”

http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/3...lved-shootings-draw-scrutiny-for-city-mayors/

MN Residents Line Bridge in Support of Police

Forest Lake, MN- People living in the Northern suburbs are showing their support for police.

A group of roughly 200 residents of Forest Lake and the surrounding area gathered on Broadway Avenue Bridge Thursday night to show support for law enforcement and emergency response personnel.

Thursday was just the first night of the four day event, with participants gathering on the bridge holding signs reading “Honk if you support police” and “Thank you to our police officers for keeping our community safe.”

While Black Lives Matter protests following the death of Philando Castile have cost the city of St. Paul over $1.5 million, there was no disruption of this event in support of police officers last night.

“I have heard that they were going to show up and be disruptive, but there was no one there last night that was protesting or being destructive towards us,” Harwell said of Black Lives Matter, “This isn’t about the race or your skin tone, or your color. This is about supporting the police whether they’re black, white, green, purple, or orange.”

http://alphanewsmn.com/5354-2/

 

[human]

http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/30/protests-shut-down-two-municipal-liquor-stores-in-st-anthony/



http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/3...lved-shootings-draw-scrutiny-for-city-mayors/



http://alphanewsmn.com/5354-2/

I remember when I was growing up, there were rumors of motorcylce gangs coming to town to cause problems. The Baldies and the Animals I believe they were called. They never showed but inspired great fear.

BLM is like the boogie man as well. Lots of fear talk.

 

[KaaBoom]

http://alphanewsmn.com/5354-2/

Great, people are protesting in support of a cop who killed an innocent man, and we wonder why we have this problem. :facepalm:

 

[K_Z]

Great, people are protesting in support of a cop who killed an innocent man, and we wonder why we have this problem. :facepalm:

I think you're mistaken in your interpretation. Look at the signs they are carrying. This is not an unlawful "protest." Officer Yanez is not mentioned anywhere.

It is a lawful community celebration, fully sanctioned and registered by permit for 3 hours a day, on 4 consecutive evenings. It is Forest Lake residents (about 45 min north of St. Paul) celebrating their own police department, and showing support for police officers recently ambushed and murdered in the line of duty.

That's a whole lot different than unlawful "protesters" rioting on a major freeway, shutting it down for hours, and sending more than a dozen police officers to the hospital with injuries from thrown rocks, frozen water bottles, etc.

As to whether or not Mr. Castile was "innocent" or not (your word)-- meaning was the police officer justified in using his weapon, we don't know yet. The investigation has a long way to go. Just as in the Jamar Clark case, which took 4 1/2 months to finally get to the truth, via DNA and other evidence.

The presumption that Officer Yanez is categorically wrong for shooting, is just as ridiculous as saying Philando Castile was blameless for his role in the interaction. *Something* very serious happened for a model officer, in a department with no shootings for over 30 years, to draw and use his weapon to shoot Mr. Castile. They both contributed to what happened, along with the girlfriend and the other officer at the scene, and we have to find out the truth.

Protesters rarely act on "the truth"-- they act on emotion, bias, impulse, and rumor to control the public narrative to "their" interpretation of whatever happened, and whip up support. They work provocatively to incite illegal and disruptive behavior, while "truth" is being investigated and proven with evidence. Just as in the Jamar Clark case.

This is an excellent commentary in the Dallas News, using logic and reason. The author discusses why the promoted "false equivalency" of murdered police officers is not at all comparable or equal to officer involved shootings. A lot of solid statistics on use of force are in the lengthy article, also.

Here's a snip.

The false equivalence of officers shooting vs. officers being shot

Believe whatever conspiracy theory makes you happy, but these are the exceptions. Overwhelmingly, police officers follow departmental rules — and the law — in deciding whether to use force.

Some cases are close calls. Recent deaths-by-police of Alton Spencer in Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in suburban St. Paul, Minn., might not appear justified from watching amateur video, but maybe you should give it a little time. You might even be proved right.

What I doubt you will find even in these cases are police officers who planned the deaths of these civilians, lying in wait and then executing them. Police do kill civilians when they must, often to protect you or me. They seldom shoot into a crowd of protesters on a downtown street; almost never sneak up and shoot civilians in the head; and rarely use 911 calls to draw them into vulnerable positions so as to murder them.

Use "never" if you prefer.

To extrapolate from Brown's point, show me the shootings of police officers that have anything resembling a moral or legal justification. Because if officers are targeted simply for wearing a uniform and doing a necessary job, that might help us decide what really matters.

At the very least, it would argue against this one-for-one false equivalence that is not justified now, never has been and never will be.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/l...officers-shooting-vs.-officers-being-shot.ece

 

[human]

View attachment 99192

I think you're mistaken in your interpretation. Look at the signs they are carrying. This is not an unlawful "protest." Officer Yanez is not mentioned anywhere.

It is a lawful community celebration, fully sanctioned and registered by permit for 3 hours a day, on 4 consecutive evenings. It is Forest Lake residents (about 45 min north of St. Paul) celebrating their own police department, and showing support for police officers recently ambushed and murdered in the line of duty.

That's a whole lot different than unlawful "protesters" rioting on a major freeway, shutting it down for hours, and sending more than a dozen police officers to the hospital with injuries from thrown rocks, frozen water bottles, etc.

As to whether or not Mr. Castile was "innocent" or not (your word)-- meaning was the police officer justified in using his weapon, we don't know yet. The investigation has a long way to go. Just as in the Jamar Clark case, which took 4 1/2 months to finally get to the truth, via DNA and other evidence.

The presumption that Officer Yanez is categorically wrong for shooting, is just as ridiculous as saying Philando Castile was blameless for his role in the interaction. *Something* very serious happened for a model officer, in a department with no shootings for over 30 years, to draw and use his weapon to shoot Mr. Castile. They both contributed to what happened, along with the girlfriend and the other officer at the scene, and we have to find out the truth.

Protesters rarely act on "the truth"-- they act on emotion, bias, impulse, and rumor to control the public narrative to "their" interpretation of whatever happened, and whip up support. They work provocatively to incite illegal and disruptive behavior, while "truth" is being investigated and proven with evidence. Just as in the Jamar Clark case.

This is an excellent commentary in the Dallas News, using logic and reason. The author discusses why the promoted "false equivalency" of murdered police officers is not at all comparable or equal to officer involved shootings. A lot of solid statistics on use of force are in the lengthy article, also.

Here's a snip.



http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/l...officers-shooting-vs.-officers-being-shot.ece

I don't think anyone thinks that the LE in this case was lying in wait to kill Castile.

I think this very young officer is fearful for his life as are all officers nowadays. The potential for people being armed is incredibly high. LE must live their lives on high alert and the stress hormones must be coursing through their bodies. I magine they become hyper vigilant and moves can be seen as threats.

One of the things I learned as a teacher was about hyper vigilance for students that have been exposed to high levels of stress. Actions are misinterpreted and can result in big issues in school.

We learned ways to deal with getting the stress hormones down for kids.

Not sure that LE has those interventions. They should have down destress time everyday. The public needs to pony up the taxes to pay for better conditions for LE. They know what they need so I hope there is a big conversation on this.

We need to put money behind Blue Lives Matter instead of slogans.
http://www.twcnews.com/nys/capital-...pert-says-pt-training-crucial-to-the-job.html

 

[K_Z]

I agree, human. I wish the kids from these horrible, crime ridden neighborhoods could be permanently removed to a safe place, with adults who care for them and about them. If we could just get the kids out of these violent environments, they have a great chance at growing up, getting an education and a trade, and living a good, productive, and successful life.

But we can't do that, and so many of these unfortunate kids are "sentenced" to be born where they are, and grow up in a violent war zone, surrounded by criminals, with no semblance of family structure or civilized society. And then repeating the cycle as adults. Many of these kids are "feral", raising themselves on the street from a very young age, with no adults who care for them, or about them, in their lives. No role models for education, employment, or success. The only civic engagement these kids are exposed to are protests, grievances, and lessons on how to riot. That's no way for any child to grow up.

And sadly, 6 hours a day of public school can't fix all the problems they have in their short lives, even with extremely caring, selfless, and dedicated teachers (which I am absolutely sure you are, human-- I know you care deeply about these unfortunate kids).

Officers definitely need care and attention to their on the job stress levels. Ongoing. When I was a new pediatric ICU nurse in an urban area decades ago, we had so many horrific deaths regularly on our unit that we all had mandatory "group therapy" once a week to help us process and deal with the carnage and sadness we were confronted with every shift (often killed or injured at the hands of their own parents).

Along with that level of care for officers, and ongoing inservices and training, officers also need more effective body armor and equipment when on patrol. Officers face completely different threats than teachers, students, patients, and health care professionals, and "de-arming" as a community building strategy is suicide. Particularly in this escalating time when LEO's are being ambushed and killed at alarming rates.

I know many disagree with "militarizing" our police, but it's the only answer to their safety, IMO. They head out on their shifts into communities that are often much more dangerous than military members in a war zone. They already have a target on their back simply because they are police officers-- just like our military. These extremely dangerous communities are war zones. The police have not created the problems of crime in these places. And anarchy is not an effective strategy for peaceful communities, either.

I do understand what you were getting at with earlier posts about the Rondo neighborhood destruction in the 50's, and the I-94 blockade. I just disagree.

 

[human]

I doubt if wearing body armor in 100 degree heat is appealing. I imagine comfort are not us when driving.

Society created the conditions of children who grow up in poverty. Remember how slaves were sold? Families torn apart?

There is much written on this as well as now of the new brain research of how trauma is passed down through the generations.

Castile was gainfully employed for years.

There are plenty of well to do who commit horrifying acts of violence. Think Lanza, Rodgers, the theatre shooter. The Columbine shooters. The Virginia tech shooter, Dylan Roof came from a prominant family. How about those Bever kids that killed their family and planned on having a random killing spree? Jeffrey Dahmer did not come from poverty. Neither did John Hinckley Jr. There are so so many who came from families with plenty of money.

 

[Elley Mae]

Wow. A child is a mistake? I feel like I am in 1940 ish Germany

I never said that. Not wearing a condom is the mistake. If you can't afford children don't have them and then ask others to help.jmo By the way it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the bickering in this thread. Post respectfully or not at all. Post have been removed and further bickering will result in WS vacations.

:wave:

 

[K_Z]

Community activist groups not happy with Don Lewis as special assistant to the investigation of the shooting death of Philando Castile:

Last week, Choi announced his decision to bring on Don Lewis to assist in the investigation. Lewis is a civil rights attorney and former assistant U.S. Attorney for Minnesota. Choi added that he would not completely turn over the case to Lewis.

Three community groups delivered more than 7,000 signatures to the office of Ramsey County Attorney John Choi on Monday calling for a "true independent prosecutor" to handle the Philando Castile case.

Shortly thereafter, the groups announced their disagreement with the appointment, saying Lewis' role in the case will not be that of a "true independent special prosecutor."

http://www.kare11.com/news/local/ph...ependent-prosecutor-in-castile-case/285517391

http://www.inforum.com/news/4085956-protesters-ask-independent-prosecutor-castile-shooting

Monday’s event was prompted by Choi appointing Don Lewis, a Minneapolis attorney with connections to St. Paul’s Rondo neighborhood, to serve as a special prosecutor on the case and aid him in consideration of charges against the officer.

Formerly the dean of Hamline University’s law school as well as a federal prosecutor, Lewis now works with the law firm Nilan Johnson Lewis.

Clarence Castile led the crowd into Choi’s office to deliver the petition around 1 p.m. When a representative from the county attorney’s office came out and told them Choi would not be coming down because it could hinder his investigation, the group started chanting and eventually staged a sit-in in the small, hot lobby.

“We Want John Choi,” members the group shouted, with several calling his refusal to come down “disrespectful” and “unacceptable.”

Clarence Castile said it seemed “cowardly.”

Protesters stayed camped out for about 45 minutes.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/08/01/petition-demands-special-prosecutor-castile-case

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/demonstrators-call-independent-review-shooting-death-41056089

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...n-for-independent-prosecutor-to-chois-office/

http://www.inforum.com/news/4085956-protesters-ask-independent-prosecutor-castile-shooting

ST. PAUL -- Chants and songs rang out from the Ramsey County attorney’s office in St. Paul on Monday as protesters continued to call for an independent special prosecutor to review the fatal shooting of Philando Castile by a police officer.

“No justice, no peace, prosecute the police” and “If Philando don’t get it, shut it down” were among the phrases repeated by the several dozen protesters who packed the lobby demanding a meeting with Ramsey County Attorney John Choi.