MN - Philando Castile, 32, fatally shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #2

  • #421
If you have a specific example of a LEO in any other country going berserk and escalating a minor issue (like a burned out car tail light) to the point of killing the citizen in front of his girlfriend and child, and then getting away with it, I would love to hear about it. I believe the US is the only country this can happen in.

Theoretically any person in any country could be murdered by a LEO, but I believe the US is the only country they can do it on video and get off scot-free. Googling it myself, some of the countries with the highest levels of police violence, would be the Philippines, El Salvador, and Kenya. The problem in Kenya is extremely disturbing, but even it doesn't compare the the random violence Americans are subject to by the police. And yes the police in Kenya deal with all the same problems American cops deal with from dangerous gangs to terrorism, but there is no published reports of Kenyan police killing anybody over a burned out taillight, and when the police there do kill innocent people, the government does convict them.

There is no other country in the world where police can and do kill innocent people (even young children) over absolutely nothing, and most Americans are perfectly happy to find them not guilty, no matter how bizarre the killing is. It doesn't matter how many innocent citizens have to die, as long as LEOs are safe. :facepalm:

Again if I'm wrong, and you have examples of this happening in other countries, I'd like to hear about it. But I don't think it does happen in any other country.

Nothing will ever convince me that what happened to Philando was justified. However, things are just as ignorant in other countries as well.

In Pakistan, you can get the death penalty for hearsay testimony claiming you "blasphemed the prophet Mohammed."

Asia Bibi was with a group of Muslims harvesting something (I think it was strawberries) to make money and they forbid her to drink from the same well as them and mocked Jesus. Being Christian, Asia made the mistake of asking them what Mohammed had done for them. She was beaten by those women and then she got thrown in jail.

She's been sitting on death row since 2010 while the Catholic Pope and human rights groups all over the world are still fighting for her release. Two government officials spoke out in her favor and both of them were murdered by a jihadist mob who were then hailed as "heroes."

Apparently, there's no guarantee you'll even be safe in jail because an angry mob could get in there and beat you to death in your cell. That happened to a woman who was riding on a motorcycle with her boyfriend and they accidentally crashed into a statue of the prophet Mohammed. IIRC, the guy died and the woman was thrown in jail, where she was later beaten to death by an angry mob.

It isn't the exact same situation. I see the point you're trying to make that we are a civilized country where a lot of our laws make sense and whenever a black person is shot, it's a trip down the rabbit hole when people go out of their way to justify it. I agree with your point that we are mainly a rational country that suddenly takes a turn for the dangerously irrational when we want to justify a cop shooting someone who they had no real reason to shoot.

I also agree we give the police way too much power. Our outward rationality starts to feel like a veneer when we go out of our way to justify nonsense like this.
 
  • #422
Nothing will ever convince me that what happened to Philando was justified. However, things are just as ignorant in other countries as well.

In Pakistan, you can get the death penalty for hearsay testimony claiming you "blasphemed the prophet Mohammed."

Asia Bibi was with a group of Muslims harvesting something (I think it was strawberries) to make money and they forbid her to drink from the same well as them and mocked Jesus. Being Christian, Asia made the mistake of asking them what Mohammed had done for them. She was beaten by those women and then she got thrown in jail.

She's been sitting on death row since 2010 while the Catholic Pope and human rights groups all over the world are still fighting for her release. Two government officials spoke out in her favor and both of them were murdered by a jihadist mob who were then hailed as "heroes."

Apparently, there's no guarantee you'll even be safe in jail because an angry mob could get in there and beat you to death in your cell. That happened to a woman who was riding on a motorcycle with her boyfriend and they accidentally crashed into a statue of the prophet Mohammed. IIRC, the guy died and the woman was thrown in jail, where she was later beaten to death by an angry mob.

It isn't the exact same situation. I see the point you're trying to make that we are a civilized country where a lot of our laws make sense and whenever a black person is shot, it's a trip down the rabbit hole when people go out of their way to justify it. I agree with your point that we are mainly a rational country that suddenly takes a turn for the dangerously irrational when we want to justify a cop shooting someone who they had no real reason to shoot.

I also agree we give the police way too much power. Our outward rationality starts to feel like a veneer when we go out of our way to justify nonsense like this.

But those are the laws of that country. Philando Castile didn't violate any laws, except driving a motor vehicle with a defective taillight. That woman is still alive and getting due process in accordance with the bizarre laws of that country. Philando Castile got an instant death sentence with no appeal. As bad as Asia Bibi's situation is, she is a billion times more fortunate than Philando Castile was. She is alive, for the time being. He is dead. Killed over a burned out light bulb. This country is completely insane.
 
  • #423
If you have a specific example of a LEO in any other country going berserk and escalating a minor issue (like a burned out car tail light) to the point of killing the citizen in front of his girlfriend and child, and then getting away with it, I would love to hear about it. I believe the US is the only country this can happen in.

Theoretically any person in any country could be murdered by a LEO, but I believe the US is the only country they can do it on video and get off scot-free. Googling it myself, some of the countries with the highest levels of police violence, would be the Philippines, El Salvador, and Kenya. The problem in Kenya is extremely disturbing, but even it doesn't compare the the random violence Americans are subject to by the police. And yes the police in Kenya deal with all the same problems American cops deal with from dangerous gangs to terrorism, but there is no published reports of Kenyan police killing anybody over a burned out taillight, and when the police there do kill innocent people, the government does convict them.

There is no other country in the world where police can and do kill innocent people (even young children) over absolutely nothing, and most Americans are perfectly happy to find them not guilty, no matter how bizarre the killing is. It doesn't matter how many innocent citizens have to die, as long as LEOs are safe. :facepalm:

Again if I'm wrong, and you have examples of this happening in other countries, I'd like to hear about it. But I don't think it does happen in any other country.

Maybe not a burned out taillight, but just for example, suspected drug users are killed by citizens in the Phillipines so I imagine the police have a hey day with them there,

Saudi Arabia has all kinds of human rights violations as well as does Iran.
 
  • #424
Maybe not a burned out taillight, but just for example, suspected drug users are killed by citizens in the Phillipines so I imagine the police have a hey day with them there,

Saudi Arabia has all kinds of human rights violations as well as does Iran.

I wasn't talking about general human rights violations. I was talking specifically about police violence towards citizens. I understand that there are problems everywhere, but I think the level of police violence in the US is unequaled anywhere else in the world IMHO. If this stuff is happening in other countries, it's sure not being reported.
 
  • #425
  • #426
  • #427
I think the Phillipines is worse than the US.

Australia has many incidences re the Aborigines.
 
  • #428
3202d77f.gif

The officer who fatally shot Philando Castile during a traffic stop last year told investigators that the smell of "burnt marijuana" in Castile's car made him believe his life was in danger.

"I thought, I was gonna die," Officer Jeronimo Yanez told investigators from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension fifteen hours after the shooting. "And I thought if he’s, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five year old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing then what, what care does he give about me. And, I let off the rounds and then after the rounds were off, the little girls was screaming."

EYESR_zps1dff9e53.gif

Washington Post

I've been around pot smokers for over four decades. Never have seen one go violent. Maybe I'm fortunate.
IMO, that dashcam video?
I witnessed either a murder or a member of LE who should never have passed the psych exam.
 
  • #429
I've been around pot smokers for over four decades. Never have seen one go violent. Maybe I'm fortunate.
IMO, that dashcam video?
I witnessed either a murder or a member of LE who should never have passed the psych exam.

Agreed. He definitely didn't have the temperament to ever be a police officer. He was completely out of control imo.


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  • #430
Castile family settles with city of St. Anthony for $3M

http://www.kare11.com/news/castile-family-settles-with-city-of-st-anthony-for-3m/452121412

I'm sorry for their loss, but I really disagree with these kind of "lottery" verdicts. Especially when the criminal case is a "not guilty" against the officer. I understand quite well the difference between criminal BARD, and "preponderance of the evidence" in civil cases. I just don't agree that when there is a NG verdict, that the family should be automatically/ reflexively "paid off" by the city to simply avoid the civil lawsuit process, which is what happened here, IMO. (Or as a "deterrence" to more rioting and violence.) Exact same situation as in the Michael Brown case when the absentee parents of Michael Brown were paid $1.5 million last week, and there is a NG verdict against the officer in that case, as well. Or the $6 million paid to Freddie Gray's relatives-- who were estranged from him. The parents of adult deceased criminal suspects (not "victims") who bring lawsuits should not receive a single penny in these kind of cases, IMO.
 
  • #431
http://www.kare11.com/news/castile-family-settles-with-city-of-st-anthony-for-3m/452121412

I'm sorry for their loss, but I really disagree with these kind of "lottery" verdicts. Especially when the criminal case is a "not guilty" against the officer. I understand quite well the difference between criminal BARD, and "preponderance of the evidence" in civil cases. I just don't agree that when there is a NG verdict, that the family should be automatically/ reflexively "paid off" by the city to simply avoid the civil lawsuit process, which is what happened here, IMO. (Or as a "deterrence" to more rioting and violence.) Exact same situation as in the Michael Brown case when the absentee parents of Michael Brown were paid $1.5 million last week, and there is a NG verdict against the officer in that case, as well. Or the $6 million paid to Freddie Gray's relatives-- who were estranged from him. The parents of adult deceased criminal suspects (not "victims") who bring lawsuits should not receive a single penny in these kind of cases, IMO.

I would venture a guess that they'd gladly forfeit that "lottery" win and have Philando alive instead. I don't begrudge a family this settlement.

Philando Castile was not at all a criminal WTAF. He was an upstanding member of society who was shot to death by a police officer during a routine traffic stop.
 
  • #432
http://www.kare11.com/news/castile-family-settles-with-city-of-st-anthony-for-3m/452121412

I'm sorry for their loss, but I really disagree with these kind of "lottery" verdicts. Especially when the criminal case is a "not guilty" against the officer. I understand quite well the difference between criminal BARD, and "preponderance of the evidence" in civil cases. I just don't agree that when there is a NG verdict, that the family should be automatically/ reflexively "paid off" by the city to simply avoid the civil lawsuit process, which is what happened here, IMO. (Or as a "deterrence" to more rioting and violence.) Exact same situation as in the Michael Brown case when the absentee parents of Michael Brown were paid $1.5 million last week, and there is a NG verdict against the officer in that case, as well. Or the $6 million paid to Freddie Gray's relatives-- who were estranged from him. The parents of adult deceased criminal suspects (not "victims") who bring lawsuits should not receive a single penny in these kind of cases, IMO.

I'm sure they'd trade it in a minute to put Yanez behind bars or to bring Philando back.

Philando was not a "criminal suspect." I also don't see what the rioting has anything to do with why Yanez decided to shoot and kill him. IMO, saying these two issues are related is kind of like saying that the Dallas cops deserved to be shot in punishment for what happened to Philando.
 
  • #433
  • #434
Demonstrations are a right outlined in the Constitution. I'm glad I live in the US where that's true.
 
  • #435
I would venture a guess that they'd gladly forfeit that "lottery" win and have Philando alive instead. I don't begrudge a family this settlement.

Philando Castile was not at all a criminal WTAF. He was an upstanding member of society who was shot to death by a police officer during a routine traffic stop.

Actually, my guess it the mother would have sued no matter the verdict. Interesting that Castille was with his girlfriend and her child, yet they have no legal standing and will probably not receive anything.
 
  • #436
Demonstrations are a right outlined in the Constitution. I'm glad I live in the US where that's true.

It's amazing that many people are more interested in stopping demonstrations, then are interested in stopping police from killing innocent people. If the police stopped killing people, there would be no reason for people to demonstrate. If you want the demonstrations to stop, then get the police under control. Otherwise the cycle of police killing people, followed by demonstrations will continue forever.
 
  • #437
Demonstrations are a right outlined in the Constitution. I'm glad I live in the US where that's true.

Me too. We have every right to be heard.
 
  • #438
3202d77f.gif

The officer who fatally shot Philando Castile during a traffic stop last year told investigators that the smell of "burnt marijuana" in Castile's car made him believe his life was in danger.

"I thought, I was gonna die," Officer Jeronimo Yanez told investigators from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension fifteen hours after the shooting. "And I thought if he’s, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five year old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing then what, what care does he give about me. And, I let off the rounds and then after the rounds were off, the little girls was screaming."

EYESR_zps1dff9e53.gif

Washington Post
This is so utterly ridiculous! I don't even know where to begin. So he thought his life was in danger because he allegedly smelled weed in the car with a child in it. And his bright idea was to shoot into said car where the child is in the line of FIRE?! Meanwhile, HIS PARTNER IS LITERALLY RELAXING AND THEN STARTS TO RUN AWAY once Yanez starts firing!!! Un freaking believable! I've never seen anything like it. His partner on that video tells me more than enough. 😡

ETA - damaging the child's hearing and shooting at one of her caregivers was so much healthier than alleged weed smoke? GTFO

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  • #439
Yeah, that's her, probably after the shock wore off. She sure looks like she didn't care at all that her boyfriend was shot, doesn't she?

And right now, this isn't about her or her reaction. I'm talking about Philando and what happened to him.

Obviously she has serious issues, since she later attacked someone with a hammer. I'm not saying she's a wonderful person and I hope that she, unlike Officer Yanez, is punished for what she did.

But just maybe she was enraged by the total lack of empathy from some people and maybe she was sick of hearing her boyfriend called horrible names like the N word in an attempt to dehumanize him and hearing that he deserved to die repeatedly when he was going out of his way to be polite and compliant. I know I'm getting sick of reading comments like that and I'm white and I didn't know Philando personally. I can only imagine that it's a hundred times worse if you did know him or if he was family.His only mistake was not immediately responding to a hysterical police officer's sudden crazed mood swing.

From what I can tell, the pot smell didn't make a difference because Yanez remained calm when he first approached the vehicle. I think what caused Yanez to freak out was the preconceived notion that he was dealing with an armed robber.

If people want to claim that it's the simple fact that Philando had a gun on him that he was legally authorized to carry, I don't see how shooting him is not a violation of his civil rights.

I'm convinced that there's absolutely nothing Philando could have done right to please these naysayers.

If Philando hadn't reported that he had a gun and the police officer had seen it while he was reaching for his ID and shot him, these same people would be saying that he was obviously up to no good because he didn't immediately inform the officer that he had a weapon on him.

IMO, that turn of events would have even made a much stronger case in favor of Yanez.
Being white. That would have helped him.

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  • #440
No way federal charges will be brought. It would have to be charged as a "hate crime" or a "civil rights" issue. There is no way they will bring charges under those circumstances-- they can't prove either. OJY has no history of that, and there is no evidence from the crime scene to support that. Federal charges are a pipe dream, and even more so because the verdict from the state case IS admissible.

I hope OJY pursues some civil lawsuits. The first one being against the Governor, as representative of the State of MN in his comments.
He is no longer an officer. He's plain old JY

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