MN - Philando Castile, 32, shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #1

[animlzrule]

It's egregious that CPR was not begun on this victim immediately. His girlfriend must have been in shock. Of course, had she attempted it, he would have shot her too.

 

[Rocco]

http://heart.arizona.edu/frequently-asked-questions

perform CPR while it is beating?

The physicians and scientists at the Sarver Heart Center, have found that the old saying "Never perform CPR on beating heart" is not valid. According to these professionals, the chances that a bystander could harm a person by pressing on their chest are slim to none, even if the heart is working normally. Therefore, they recommend following the "Better safe than sorry" approach and begin chest compressions. It is better to perform a few unnecessary chest compressions for someone with a beating heart, rather than withhold chest compressions and circulation from someone in cardiac arrest.

Why don’t you check for a pulse?

We do NOT recommend that lay public rescuers waste time trying to assess for a palpable pulse. During Dr. Kern’s tenure as AHA National ACLS Chairman, the AHA came to the same conclusion. Public lay rescuers cannot reliably detect the absence of a pulse in a timely fashion, hence in the 2000 and 2005 AHA CPR Guidelines (Circulation 2005; 112(24): IV-3), this requirement was removed.

Studies have also shown that even if a person manages to locate the correct spot for detecting a pulse, there is a high chance that the pulse they may detect is their own, especially considering heightened stress levels in such situations. Rather than wasting time trying to detect a pulse that may or may not be the victim's own pulse, it is better to get perfusion to the brain by continuous chest compressions.

The correct response to a witnessed cardiac arrest is to:

Check for responsiveness (shake and shout).
IF NO RESPONSE, call for help ("911") or ask someone else to call.
Begin uninterrupted forceful continuous chest compressions immediately.
Call for an AED if one is nearby and available.

He was not unresponsive. He was groaning so he was breathing. You can't be breathing if your heart has stopped.

 

[animlzrule]

<modsnip> Of course you do CPR on the living. CPR stands for Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation. One performs CPR when it appears that either the heart, or the respiratory system is not functioning. Lay people cannot legally make the determination of death. Nor can nurses. We do CPR upon finding someone who is pulseless, or non breathing. The lack of those functions, however, is not necessarily indicative of death. However, not performing CPR upon finding someone who is pulseless or non breathing will guarantee their death.

 

[animlzrule]

He was not unresponsive. He was groaning so he was breathing. You can't be breathing if your heart has stopped.

On the contrary, rescue breathing should be initiated in the event that a person is a) not breathing, b) breathing very shallowly, and/or c) breathing erratically. In this event if a pulse is detected, but the airway does not appear to be secure or diaphragmatic breathing is insufficient, we initiate rescue breathing, without chest compressions.

 

[animlzrule]

He was not unresponsive. He was groaning so he was breathing. You can't be breathing if your heart has stopped.

There is a state called "agonal breathing". This could very well be what was going on. It's one of the signs we watch for in hospice care.

 

[Rocco]

I don't even know how to respond to this. Of course you do CPR on the living. CPR stands for Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation. One performs CPR when it appears that either the heart, or the respiratory system is not functioning. Lay people cannot legally make the determination of death. Nor can nurses. We do CPR upon finding someone who is pulseless, or non breathing. The lack of those functions, however, is not necessarily indicative of death. However, not performing CPR upon finding someone who is pulseless or non breathing will guarantee their death.

Are you familiar with this case? He was groaning in the video so he was breathing. He couldn't be breathing if his heart had stopped. His heart and respiratory system WERE obviously functioning right after the shooting. This wasn't a case of finding someone unresponsive and wondering if he was in cardiac arrest.

 

[human]

He was not unresponsive. He was groaning so he was breathing. You can't be breathing if your heart has stopped.

Um, did you see the info above where it says not breathing normally?

 

[animlzrule]

Are you familiar with this case? He was groaning in the video so he was breathing. He couldn't be breathing if his heart had stopped. His heart and respiratory system WERE obviously functioning right after the shooting. This wasn't a case of finding someone unresponsive and wondering if he was in cardiac arrest.

I was addressing your completely false assertion that CPR is not performed on living beings. As for this case, at a MINIMUM, an attempt should have been made to compress his wounds until the EMTs could get him out of the car, get him oxygen and get IVs going to support his hemodynamic status. This man was treated like garbage from start to finish, and it's unconscionable. Yes, his heart was functioning briefly, hence the blood pouring out of his chest. Groaning? Not necessarily indicative of a functional respiratory system.

 

[Rocco]

On the contrary, rescue breathing should be initiated in the event that a person is a) not breathing, b) breathing very shallowly, and/or c) breathing erratically. In this event if a pulse is detected, but the airway does not appear to be secure or diaphragmatic breathing is insufficient, we initiate rescue breathing, without chest compressions.

He WAS breathing.

 

[Rocco]

I was addressing your completely false assertion that CPR is not performed on living beings. As for this case, at a MINIMUM, an attempt should have been made to compress his wounds until the EMTs could get him out of the car, get him oxygen and get IVs going to support his hemodynamic status. This man was treated like garbage from start to finish, and it's unconscionable. Yes, his heart was functioning briefly, hence the blood pouring out of his chest. Groaning? Not necessarily indicative of a functional respiratory system.

He was not treated like garbage and false statements like that are extremely offensive to those that tried to save him.

 

[animlzrule]

He was not treated like garbage and false statements like that are extremely offensive to those that tried to save him.

Hmmm, I'd say being stopped without cause, under false pretenses, murdered, and then denied life saving basic aid pretty much qualifies as being treated like garbage. YMMV. As for false statements, I did not make erroneous/false claims about the value/proper use and or initiation of CPR. I'm not sure what the benefit is to anybody to pile on this victim for a situation he did nothing to provoke. Is this not a victim friendly site?

 

[Jax49]

I forced myself to watch the entire video again. Yep, I'm crying again.

IMHO, a frightened cop resulted in another tragedy.

 

[Sillybilly]

STOP the disrespect and bickering now. Disagree respectfully or scroll, roll, move on !!

:wave:

 

[Tillicum]

Where the Philando Castile death investigation stands

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...ndout-for-Public-Visitors-on.html#document/p1

 

[al66pine]

regarding the star tribune article, the blm demonstration and the 'days of rage' protests:
http://www.startribune.com/blm-st-p...e-shopping-center-sunday-afternoon/386891321/

&#8220;black lives matter st. Paul plans to demonstrate at the rosedale shopping center on sunday ...&#8221;
&#8220;the 1 p.m. Demonstration will be held at an undisclosed location inside the mall, so authorities won&#8217;t be able to fully prepare for it, organizers said....&#8221;​

​

sbm^. "Demonstration will be held at an undisclosed location inside the mall, so authorities won&#8217;t be able to fully prepare for it, organizers said." bbm This ^ group, whether an official BLM org or some other group, announced it does not want LE to be able to fully prepare for the demonstration? For a planned peaceful assembly of law-abiders, why do they object to LE presence, to try to prevent LE from preparing?

Do (typically) peaceful groups try to preclude LE & others from preparing for anticipated, substantial increase in vehicle traffic, parking, foot traffic inside, etc? Ditto merchants/vendors preparing for what-ev would be typical for heavy patronage, say, at Fourth of July/ Christmas/Labor Day in stores. Ditto food courts/restaurants/ vending machines, etc. Trash pickup, public restroom use, etc.

If BSA Eagle Scouts announced an assembly of 50, 100, 200, 500, or 1000 members at this mall, would they announce holding it in an undisclosed location? What about Girl Scouts? 4-H clubs? Church choirs, planning to carol? et al.

Are there discrepancies between ^ group's 'peaceful assembly' announcements & its hidden intentions & agenda? IDK.

 

[human]

I do not think this will work as a Mall is private property. If it is undisclosed, where will people meet?

The Mall of America kicked out Native American dancers a couple of years ago. It was beautiful and peaceful, but they were removed

http://theuptake.org/2014/01/01/mal...mericans-happy-new-year-you-are-under-arrest/

 

[animlzrule]

I do not think this will work as a Mall is private property. If it is undisclosed, where will people meet?

The Mall of America kicked out Native American dancers a couple of years ago. It was beautiful and peaceful, but they were removed

http://theuptake.org/2014/01/01/mal...mericans-happy-new-year-you-are-under-arrest/

In Baton Rouge, the police even harassed and rousted peaceful protestors who were protesting from private property, with the owner's permission. Sadly, the system is rigged against them, right now. I think the Constitution only applies when discussing the 2nd Amendment, YKWIM? They're not going to effectively be able to do this at the mall, I'm afraid.

 

[drjones]

The most widely reported incident that people are talking about where "peaceful protesters were on private property with the owners permission and the police illegally went onto the property and arrested them for nothing" is a farce.

It is a completely made up lie. It is one of those things that people that want to be critical of the movement can latch onto and use as evidence because it is so flagrant. But anyone that still believes that story shouldnt feel too bad because the media perpetuated it and has not made any real effort to correct it.

 

[animlzrule]

The most widely reported incident that people are talking about where "peaceful protesters were on private property with the owners permission and the police illegally went onto the property and arrested them for nothing" is a farce.

It is a completely made up lie. It is one of those things that people that want to be critical of the movement can latch onto and use as evidence because it is so flagrant.

Well, I watched it with my own eyes. Pretty sure I wasn't having delusions. :facepalm: And, I have another one. What about the one where peaceful protestors were pushed from private property onto the street by the police, and then were arrested for being in the roadway. NPR reporters were lying about that too, I suppose. Denial is a funny, illogical thing......

 

[drjones]

Well, I watched it with my own eyes. Pretty sure I wasn't having delusions. :facepalm: And, I have another one. What about the one where peaceful protestors were pushed from private property onto the street by the police, and then were arrested for being in the roadway. NPR reporters were lying about that too, I suppose. Denial is a funny, illogical thing......

Yes denial in the face of facts is a funny thing;

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/07/louisiana_house_protest.html